If you are a baseball fan... - Printable Version
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RE: If you are a baseball fan... - martyup - 01-07-2020
(01-07-2020, 09:31 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I had to look up the coconut oil reference. I wish I hadn't. Don't say I didn't warn you.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/11/02/phillies-gabe-kapler-manager-coconut-oil-howard-eskin
BC
Brush your teeth with it?
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - Phogge - 01-07-2020
I agree with Bobbbbb, terrible roster. However I think the Tyson Ross signing can't hurt. Big time stuff and apparently at times a ten cent head. Maybe the boy pitching coach with little experience can get something out of him. Farhan is a surgeon. Maybe he will heal the Giants after a lot of baseball chemo and radiation but I am fearful that he will botch the heart transplant.
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - SamuelMcF - 01-07-2020
Brand-new article today expanding the scope of MLB's sign-stealing controversy. Massive implications. Co-written by...Ken Rosenthal.
https://theathletic.com/1510673/2020/01/07/mlbs-sign-stealing-controversy-broadens-sources-say-the-red-sox-used-video-replay-room-illegally-in-2018/
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - cardcrimson - 01-07-2020
(01-07-2020, 12:38 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Brand-new article today expanding the scope of MLB's sign-stealing controversy. Massive implications. Co-written by...Ken Rosenthal.
https://theathletic.com/1510673/2020/01/07/mlbs-sign-stealing-controversy-broadens-sources-say-the-red-sox-used-video-replay-room-illegally-in-2018/
Cheating in Boston? Say it ain't so. . . ..
lex24 - lex24 - 01-07-2020
(01-07-2020, 09:31 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I had to look up the coconut oil reference. I wish I hadn't. Don't say I didn't warn you.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/11/02/phillies-gabe-kapler-manager-coconut-oil-howard-eskin
BC
Kepler also blogged that it was important to let the boys out in the sun so they can get tanned. Helps you stay strong. The guy bolloxed the harrassment claim; had a blog that sounded like it was written by a teenager and was a lousy manager in his two years with the Phillies. When, not if, the Giants stink next year, the fans will blame who they always blame- the manager. Whether justified or not. And Kapler will have no good will to draw on. Which is why he was a poor hire.
Today’s manager simply needs to be able to sell the players to what the GM wants, and follow what the computer tells them. The front office and their mathematicians run the show and the game. There were others up to that task. Without the baggage. There is a reason Kershaw told the Dodgers brass not to hire the guy.
(01-07-2020, 12:55 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(01-07-2020, 12:38 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Brand-new article today expanding the scope of MLB's sign-stealing controversy. Massive implications. Co-written by...Ken Rosenthal.
https://theathletic.com/1510673/2020/01/07/mlbs-sign-stealing-controversy-broadens-sources-say-the-red-sox-used-video-replay-room-illegally-in-2018/
Cheating in Boston? Say it ain't so. . . ..
Cheating in baseball is as American as Apple Pie. The ‘51 Giants had a guy in the CF scoreboard stealing signs with a set of binoculars during the latter part of the season. When they caught the Bums after trailing by 13 1/2 games on Aug 1. Ive read they hit better on the road during that stretch. BobK or Phogge can tell us if that’s true.
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - Giants - 01-08-2020
(01-06-2020, 08:21 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: You now have no choice but to become a subscriber to The Athletic. Keith Law, arguably the leading expert on all things baseball prospects and player assessment, has left ESPN to lead The Athletic's Minor League coverage and dip into the brewing labor turmoil. You get Keith Law, but also all the other usually outstanding writing across the sports landscape, all for $4/mo.
https://theathletic.com/1510522/?source=twitterhq
Locally, Melissa Lockard does an excellent job of following the Giants and A’s minor league prospects at The Athletic.
Overall, it is well worth the money. The writing is top notch and the college football coverage, while nationally focused, is superb. Heck, how could it not be great given that three of the best college football writers in the country, Mandel, Feldman and Staples, work for them. Also, Stanford’s own, David Lombardi, is prominently featured in the Bay Area section.
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - OutsiderFan - 01-08-2020
Agree on Lockard. She’s impressive.
As for fans blaming the manager when the Giants are terrible this year, that seems hard to fathom. Anyone who follows the team knows the roster is lousy and the emphasis is stocking the farm system with more talent. After years of trading it away and not developing it, the Giants have a gap of 2-3 seasons where they just don’t have enough talent to effectively compete. They don’t have it on the field or the mound.
No matter your feelings on Kapler, he’s well suited to developing young players who have yet to become established major leaguers. Maybe when the Giants become competitive they will need a manager with a different expertise, or maybe Kapler will develop into an effective one as the talent on the roster improves. But the idea that fans will blame the manager for all the losing the team will do in 2020 seems a product of having an axe to grind against Kapler than with the actual realities of the team’s competitive position.
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - Phogge - 01-08-2020
As far as I know nobody has produced pictures of Sal Yvars with field glasses stealing signs from CF in the Polo Grounds.
Whatever. Charlie Dressen should have used Carl Erskine instead of Branca. At the time only Feller threw a better curveball. Thomson murdered fastballs.
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - BobK - 01-08-2020
Outsider do you really believe no one blames the coach or manager for a losing season you have had a sheltered life
Lex after reading your post it dawns on me why Kapler was hired. Given Farham’s plans for the Giants this season and next everyone else said no
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - OutsiderFan - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 08:47 AM)BobK Wrote: Outsider do you really believe no one blames the coach or manager for a losing season you have had a sheltered life
Informed Giants fans know what's up, and it isn't the talent on the roster. I wouldn't judge Kapler as a manager in terms of his ability to win games, this year, even a little bit.
You're looking at a lineup like:
1. 2B Dubon
2. CF Duggar (maybe)
3. LF Dickerson (maybe if he can stay healthy) and Davis
4. 3B Longoria
5. RF Yastrzemski
6. 1B Belt
7. C Posey
8. SS Crawford
9. Cueto, Samardzija, Ross, Webb, Beede
Maybe 3 guys who can run a bit. Two guys who have 20+ HR potential. And frankly, Yastrzemski could be the best player in the lineup. Cueto the only legit potentially consistently good SP.
I'll give you the greatest manager to ever walk the Earth and the Giants aren't going to win more than 70 games.
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - cardcrimson - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 11:02 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(01-08-2020, 08:47 AM)BobK Wrote: Outsider do you really believe no one blames the coach or manager for a losing season you have had a sheltered life
Informed Giants fans know what's up, and it isn't the talent on the roster. I wouldn't judge Kapler as a manager in terms of his ability to win games, this year, even a little bit.
You're looking at a lineup like:
1. 2B Dubon
2. CF Duggar (maybe)
3. LF Dickerson (maybe if he can stay healthy) and Davis
4. 3B Longoria
5. RF Yastrzemski
6. 1B Belt
7. C Posey
8. SS Crawford
9. Cueto, Samardzija, Ross, Webb, Beede
Maybe 3 guys who can run a bit. Two guys who have 20+ HR potential. And frankly, Yastrzemski could be the best player in the lineup. Cueto the only legit potentially consistently good SP.
I'll give you the greatest manager to ever walk the Earth and the Giants aren't going to win more than 70 games.
Ouch BobK. Guess that means you would be an uninformed Giants fan. Seem to be pretty up on things to me. . . .
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - BostonCard - 01-08-2020
Human nature being what it is, somehow people will still find a way to blame the manager.
BC
lex24 - lex24 - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 04:19 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Agree on Lockard. She’s impressive.
As for fans blaming the manager when the Giants are terrible this year, that seems hard to fathom. Anyone who follows the team knows the roster is lousy and the emphasis is stocking the farm system with more talent. After years of trading it away and not developing it, the Giants have a gap of 2-3 seasons where they just don’t have enough talent to effectively compete. They don’t have it on the field or the mound.
No matter your feelings on Kapler, he’s well suited to developing young players who have yet to become established major leaguers. Maybe when the Giants become competitive they will need a manager with a different expertise, or maybe Kapler will develop into an effective one as the talent on the roster improves. But the idea that fans will blame the manager for all the losing the team will do in 2020 seems a product of having an axe to grind against Kapler than with the actual realities of the team’s competitive position.
Blaming the manager is hard to fathom? To quote John McEnroe- “YOU CANT BE SERIOUS.” The manager almost always gets blamed. Fair. Or not.
But you miss my point. Which is that a Kapler comes in with a couple strikes against him. Some are going to be looking for any excuse to send him on his way. He won’t make it past 2021.
By the way, what do you base your statement that he is well-suited to develop young players that have yet to become proven major leaguers? I don’t recall him doing that at Philly. I recall him failing.
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - qwerty49 - 01-08-2020
OK, you heard it here first. If Stanford doesn't make the Rose Bowl next year, it's Gabe Kapler's fault.
lex24 - lex24 - 01-08-2020
(01-08-2020, 08:47 AM)BobK Wrote: Outsider do you really believe no one blames the coach or manager for a losing season you have had a sheltered life
Lex after reading your post it dawns on me why Kapler was hired. Given Farham’s plans for the Giants this season and next everyone else said no
Yeah, particularly on this board. Where a certain someone gets blamed for all things bad. And did even when things were oh so good.
RE: lex24 - cardcrimson - 01-09-2020
(01-08-2020, 11:01 PM)lex24 Wrote:(01-08-2020, 08:47 AM)BobK Wrote: Outsider do you really believe no one blames the coach or manager for a losing season you have had a sheltered life
Lex after reading your post it dawns on me why Kapler was hired. Given Farham’s plans for the Giants this season and next everyone else said no
Yeah, particularly on this board. Where a certain someone gets blamed for all things bad. And did even when things were oh so good.
"It's what we do" . . . .
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - OutsiderFan - 01-09-2020
Kapler was in charge of the Dodgers’ farm system which gave him a role developing younger players. Usually managers are better in their second gig. Kapler checks both boxes the Giants covet, someone who has experience developing players, and one who has had managing experience.
Any comparison of Kapler to David Shaw is intellectually lazy and/or dishonest. David Shaw is responsible for everything in Stanford Football, including who is brought in the program, how they are developed, and coached. Kapler has no say in who is on the roster and he’s also being told where and how to play everyone. His job is to take the information he is given and translate it to the players, be it how to work on their specific skills or how to use them in games.
Shaw and Kapler have completely different jobs, but go ahead and make off point, unrelated arguments that demonstrate emotional defensiveness more than clear-headed and credible assessments based on reality. Seriously, why the need to bring David Shaw into a discussion about baseball and the Giants?
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - Phogge - 01-09-2020
OK OF this is as clear and credible as a somewhat senile old man can be. Kapler had what was considered a contender in 2019. They failed to contend. His fault? At least in part. Then he is hired to work in a City that is very touchy re social issues and it is revealed that he at least somewhat botched an abuse complaint in his team’s minors league system. Then it is revealed that he does some things with coconut oil. Forgive me for being skeptical about the man.
lex24 - lex24 - 01-09-2020
(01-09-2020, 07:26 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Kapler was in charge of the Dodgers’ farm system which gave him a role developing younger players. Usually managers are better in their second gig. Kapler checks both boxes the Giants covet, someone who has experience developing players, and one who has had managing experience.
Any comparison of Kapler to David Shaw is intellectually lazy and/or dishonest. David Shaw is responsible for everything in Stanford Football, including who is brought in the program, how they are developed, and coached. Kapler has no say in who is on the roster and he’s also being told where and how to play everyone. His job is to take the information he is given and translate it to the players, be it how to work on their specific skills or how to use them in games. (Heck, I haven’t even mentioned his taking two trips to the mound without having a pitcher warming up. I knew not to do that when I was 5 years old.).
Shaw and Kapler have completely different jobs, but go ahead and make off point, unrelated arguments that demonstrate emotional defensiveness more than clear-headed and credible assessments based on reality. Seriously, why the need to bring David Shaw into a discussion about baseball and the Giants?
As for “ clear headed and credible assessments based on reality” i’ve laid out several times why I believe Kaplan was a bad hire. Based on his poor record at Philly, his reputation of not being able to control the clubhouse (liked but not respected is a bad combo for a manager) and issues that I think will hurt him with the Fanbase. My point outsider, which you keep missing, is it was a bad hire because it was a poor decision from a risk management analysis. He did not need to hire Kapler and take on the baggage. Particularly when he knows, I’m relatively confident, that these are going to be very lean years. And the one that usually takes the brunt of the criticism in lean years, justified or not, is the manager.
As for the limited role for today’s manager - essentially puppets with an IPad- I have made that point as well. Which also supports my position that he’s a bad hire. Essentially everyone Farhan was interviewing fit that mode. Analytics uber alles. All of them.
As for why, Shaw - because this is a Stanford board. And I thought given what was, imo, your ludicrous statement, that using the over the top criticism of Shaw on this board (which pales in comparison to another board I frequent)) was appropriate to support my conclusion that it’s always the head guy that gets the blame.
BTW - if I’m wrong, I’ll be the first to admit it. Hope I am. I want him to succeed. I’m a Giants fan, after all.
RE: If you are a baseball fan... - OutsiderFan - 01-09-2020
It's fine to have an opinion, but too many things are being conflated for me to take the guilty until proven innocent takes on Kapler too seriously.
To be clear, I'm not claiming Kapler was a great hire or that he will win a bunch of games nobody thinks the Giants would be winning without him. All I have done is demonstrate why he was hired and that nobody who has a sound understanding of what makes baseball teams win more than half their games, is going to hold Kapler responsible for the Giants losing more than half their games, because the talent just isn't there.
Now, people can blame Kapler for the coming losses, but will they be rightfully laying responsibility for losing where it lies, really? Not if the comments like "how he handled the (Dodgers) situation" and "coconut oil" are being used to preemptively judge the guy. Even his record as Phillies manager isn't a fair assessment because there is a lot of evidence that suggest managers do better in their 2nd job (Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, Bruce Bochy, and Tony LaRussa to name four). Farhan is not dumb. In fact, by measures many here believe in (degree brand and academic performance), he's one of the smartest guys in the game.
The reality is people who don't like Kapler aren't going to withhold judgement. Thats fine, but don't expect me to take opinions from those hell bent on pre-judgment all that seriously.