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RE: My hopes for tomorrow - Phogge - 02-02-2020

Mahomes was able to avoid pressure by rolling out and at times throwing it away. He also was able to run out of trouble a few times and make first downs. He will have to do a bit more from me to consider him in the Otto Graham, Unitas, Montana, Brady pantheon.

As for Stanford Sherman was exposed and Thomas again a non factor except for his encroachment penalty. Doubt he will return give a healthy DJ Jones and Ronald Blair next year.

RE: My hopes for tomorrow - OutsiderFan - 02-02-2020

The most important play of Super Bowl LIV was Chiefs 3rd and 15 with 7 mins left. At the snap, Nick Bosa and DeForrest Buckner executed a twist that had Bosa work inside in front of Buckner, who ran around to the vacated spot Bosa left.

Rather than passing Bosa off to a Guard, LT Fisher went with Bosa inside and the Guard futilely followed Buckner to no avail, who had a clean line to Mahomes. As Bosa went inside of where Buckner vacated, Fisher’s right hand grabbed Bosa’s jersey neck on Bosa’s right shoulder and pulled him downward by his shoulder pad, preventing Bosa from cleanly getting passed Fisher and vertical to Mahomes. As Bosa went up field toward Mahomes, he used a swim move to get off the hold, but as he did, Fisher reached around Bosa’s back with his left arm, further impeding Bosa to get vertical, but also pushing Bosa further to Bosa’s left than he wanted to be. This “double hold” prevented Bosa, who had otherwise badly beaten Fisher, from getting to the face of Mahomes as quickly as he would have if not held.

As Buckner neared Mahomes, with Bosa having been held and pushed, Mahomes was able to step forward into his throw that was like a punt for WR Hill. If Bosa had not been held up by the double hold, he would have been right in front of Mahomes and not given him anywhere to step up. Mahomes either would have thrown a less accurate pass, or been hit by both Buckner and Bosa for a sack. As it was, Buckner was just half a second from hitting Mahomes before he threw the ball Hill caught for the biggest first down of the game.

I didn’t notice this live, but when I went back to see the play, I was amazed how flagrant the hold on Bosa was, and it was actually a separate hold with each arm. This hold was far more flagrant than the OPI called on Kittle before halftime. And I do believe the OPI was legit.

The Niners didn’t lose because of the officials, but there is no doubt Bosa was flagrantly held on the most important play of the game, one that turned the game’s momentum. Had he not been held, Mahomes would have been sacked or thrown a ball while being hit that likely would have been incomplete. Had the penalty been called, it would have been 3rd and 25. Instead, it was the longest pass play of the game and catalyzed a comeback.

RE: My hopes for tomorrow - baymeadows3408 - 02-03-2020

(02-02-2020, 11:06 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I didn’t notice this live, but when I went back to see the play, I was amazed how flagrant the hold on Bosa was, and it was actually a separate hold with each arm. This hold was far more flagrant than the OPI called on Kittle before halftime. And I do believe the OPI was legit.
 
The Niners didn’t lose because of the officials, but there is no doubt Bosa was flagrantly held on the most important play of the game, one that turned the game’s momentum. Had he not been held, Mahomes would have been sacked or thrown a ball while being hit that likely would have been incomplete. Had the penalty been called, it would have been 3rd and 25. Instead, it was the longest pass play of the game and catalyzed a comeback.

Yeah, the OPI call had me scratching my head. It was the correct call by the letter of the law, but the officials were otherwise giving everyone a long leash, and I thought that was an odd time to throw the flag.

Bottom line: The Chiefs are a talented team and they made the big plays and they also beat the 49ers at their own game by scoring touchdowns using long drives. Maybe Shanahan should have kept running the ball on second and five on the 49ers' drive following the Chiefs' first touchdown in the fourth quarter, but had run plays been stuffed on second and third down then we would be accusing Shanahan of turtling. I find some solace in the fact that the 49ers have a lot of young talent, but the NFC West is shaping up to be a war. Lynch and Shanahan have some work to do.

RE: My hopes for tomorrow - Mick - 02-03-2020

(02-02-2020, 11:06 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  The most important play of Super Bowl LIV was Chiefs 3rd and 15 with 7 mins left. At the snap, Nick Bosa and DeForrest Buckner executed a twist that had Bosa work inside in front of Buckner, who ran around to the vacated spot Bosa left.

Rather than passing Bosa off to a Guard, LT Fisher went with Bosa inside and the Guard futilely followed Buckner to no avail, who had a clean line to Mahomes. As Bosa went inside of where Buckner vacated, Fisher’s right hand grabbed Bosa’s jersey neck on Bosa’s right shoulder and pulled him downward by his shoulder pad, preventing Bosa from cleanly getting passed Fisher and vertical to Mahomes. As Bosa went up field toward Mahomes, he used a swim move to get off the hold, but as he did, Fisher reached around Bosa’s back with his left arm, further impeding Bosa to get vertical, but also pushing Bosa further to Bosa’s left than he wanted to be. This “double hold” prevented Bosa, who had otherwise badly beaten Fisher, from getting to the face of Mahomes as quickly as he would have if not held.

As Buckner neared Mahomes, with Bosa having been held and pushed, Mahomes was able to step forward into his throw that was like a punt for WR Hill. If Bosa had not been held up by the double hold, he would have been right in front of Mahomes and not given him anywhere to step up. Mahomes either would have thrown a less accurate pass, or been hit by both Buckner and Bosa for a sack. As it was, Buckner was just half a second from hitting Mahomes before he threw the ball Hill caught for the biggest first down of the game.

I didn’t notice this live, but when I went back to see the play, I was amazed how flagrant the hold on Bosa was, and it was actually a separate hold with each arm. This hold was far more flagrant than the OPI called on Kittle before halftime. And I do believe the OPI was legit.

The Niners didn’t lose because of the officials, but there is no doubt Bosa was flagrantly held on the most important play of the game, one that turned the game’s momentum. Had he not been held, Mahomes would have been sacked or thrown a ball while being hit that likely would have been incomplete. Had the penalty been called, it would have been 3rd and 25. Instead, it was the longest pass play of the game and catalyzed a comeback.

I saw that. It happened regularly. The Chiefs, with the more experienced coach, understood that the rules in the Super Bowl tend to go out the window a little bit. The holding on the Chiefs' side was particularly impressive. I can live with that, but the offensive PI call on George Kittle fell into the same category. Two sets of rules, IMHO.
(02-03-2020, 05:13 AM)baymeadows3408 Wrote:  Bottom line: The Chiefs are a talented team and they made the big plays and they also beat the 49ers at their own game by scoring touchdowns using long drives. Maybe Shanahan should have kept running the ball on second and five on the 49ers' drive following the Chiefs' first touchdown in the fourth quarter, but had run plays been stuffed on second and third down then we would be accusing Shanahan of turtling. I find some solace in the fact that the 49ers have a lot of young talent, but the NFC West is shaping up to be a war. Lynch and Shanahan have some work to do.

Have to agree. The Niners could stand to replace a few of the defensive backs. And Garoppolo needs to improve in a few categories (looking off receivers, focusing so much on going over the middle, inability to scramble, inability to throw the ball away).

lex24 - lex24 - 02-03-2020

(02-02-2020, 11:06 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  The most important play of Super Bowl LIV was Chiefs 3rd and 15 with 7 mins left. At the snap, Nick Bosa and DeForrest Buckner executed a twist that had Bosa work inside in front of Buckner, who ran around to the vacated spot Bosa left.

Rather than passing Bosa off to a Guard, LT Fisher went with Bosa inside and the Guard futilely followed Buckner to no avail, who had a clean line to Mahomes. As Bosa went inside of where Buckner vacated, Fisher’s right hand grabbed Bosa’s jersey neck on Bosa’s right shoulder and pulled him downward by his shoulder pad, preventing Bosa from cleanly getting passed Fisher and vertical to Mahomes. As Bosa went up field toward Mahomes, he used a swim move to get off the hold, but as he did, Fisher reached around Bosa’s back with his left arm, further impeding Bosa to get vertical, but also pushing Bosa further to Bosa’s left than he wanted to be. This “double hold” prevented Bosa, who had otherwise badly beaten Fisher, from getting to the face of Mahomes as quickly as he would have if not held.

As Buckner neared Mahomes, with Bosa having been held and pushed, Mahomes was able to step forward into his throw that was like a punt for WR Hill. If Bosa had not been held up by the double hold, he would have been right in front of Mahomes and not given him anywhere to step up. Mahomes either would have thrown a less accurate pass, or been hit by both Buckner and Bosa for a sack. As it was, Buckner was just half a second from hitting Mahomes before he threw the ball Hill caught for the biggest first down of the game.

I didn’t notice this live, but when I went back to see the play, I was amazed how flagrant the hold on Bosa was, and it was actually a separate hold with each arm. This hold was far more flagrant than the OPI called on Kittle before halftime. And I do believe the OPI was legit.

The Niners didn’t lose because of the officials, but there is no doubt Bosa was flagrantly held on the most important play of the game, one that turned the game’s momentum. Had he not been held, Mahomes would have been sacked or thrown a ball while being hit that likely would have been incomplete. Had the penalty been called, it would have been 3rd and 25. Instead, it was the longest pass play of the game and catalyzed a comeback.

I thought the most impt play was third and five after the int. JG didn’t see a wide open Kittle.  They keep that drive alive, they probably win.

RE: My hopes for tomorrow - teejers1 - 02-03-2020

(02-03-2020, 05:13 AM)baymeadows3408 Wrote:  Maybe Shanahan should have kept running the ball on second and five on the 49ers' drive following the Chiefs' first touchdown in the fourth quarter, but had run plays been stuffed on second and third down then we would be accusing Shanahan of turtling. 

Maybe?!?  That was (another) example of Shanahan not getting the situation at critical juncture of the game.  Overall, he did very well in calling the game, but you can't brain lock at critical times and then say "I gave the team the best chance to win."  He did not.  On second and 5 up 3 points, you run it.  And then run it again.  And then I would run it again, if necessary, for the first down (though it would not have been).

Watching real time, it shocks me that people who watch/care about the outcome don't think the same thing.  [But fortunately, when I picked up my son who was at his own gathering, the first thing he said - unprompted - was "second and five and you pass it?!"  He gets it.].

Despite the dubious OPI (and really, Rudolph wins a playoff game for the Vikes with the most egregious OPI on a TD pass you'll ever see that doesn't get called, and Kittle takes a hanky for some hand-battles - that gave him no advantage on the catch?), the non-calls on the hold, if Shanahan gives his team the best chance to win late . . . maybe it's a different outcome.

And I am willing to believe that Jimmy G. may have missed an open Kittle on some plays, including the one Lex highlights.  But really, I'd like to see a replay that shows the entire field and the movement of the players real time.  The reason I ask is that Aikman was bitching about not throwing to an open Kittle for a first down on third and whatever (the completion went below him to a WR tackled short of the mark).  The only replay I saw on that showed a defender closing toward Kittle, but there was no full-field view, so as to judge how open he was or if the defender would have been there in time.  In other words, before I accept all the Aikman/Buck criticisms, I'd like to see the tape first.

Good game.  Congrats to KC and Andy Reid (and Mahomes) in particular.

RE: My hopes for tomorrow - OutsiderFan - 02-03-2020

Some others have noticed the missed holding on Bosa. Here is a catalog of questionable or outright missed calls from Super Bowl LIV. The Bosa hold was way worse than grabbing him from behind. The pulling on shoulder pad that kept Bosa from getting away from Fisher, before the grab from behind, was way way worse.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/three-questionable-missed-calls-hurt-49ers-2020-super-bowl-loss

Of course, we can remember some people thought Fred Warner should have been flagged for PI in the EZ at Seattle.

I wasn't protesting the Kittle OPI when it happened, but when comparing to Kyle Rudolph now, I'm pissed! Besides, Sorenson contacted Kittle as much as Kittle contacted him. In fact, Kittle only reached back when Sorenson reached out to hit Kittle!