WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 (/thread-18992.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 (/thread-18992.html)
RE: WBB: Stanford vs Oregon State Friday 8 pm - 2006alum - 02-21-2020
(02-21-2020, 10:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: 9 point lead after three.
1 turnover so far in the game.
BC
BC, why tempt the wooing gods so???
RE: WBB: Stanford vs Oregon State Friday 8 pm - mbdude - 02-21-2020
Why dribble thru 3 defenders
RE: WBB: Stanford vs Oregon State Friday 8 pm - BostonCard - 02-21-2020
Wanted to make it exciting?
I could have done with three turnovers. The fourth was painful.
Kiana’s game. Lexie’s slump continues.
BC
RE: WBB: Stanford vs Oregon State Friday 8 pm - martyup - 02-21-2020
Boy, they tried to blow a 14 point lead. Turtled and let the Beavers all the way back to 3 down with the ball and 17 seconds to play. Slocum missed the 3 and we win. Should not have been that scary in the end. Good win, though. Dodson was clutch. Williams solid.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - qwerty49 - 02-21-2020
Well that technical was a 4-pt swing and we ended up winning by 3.
Nice team win with good contributions from Dodson, Wilson and Jerome.
We knew Slocum and Pivec were great players but their frosh post Jones was a real surprise to me, hard to defend and a good defender herself.
We need the old Lexie back. I think Prechtel is learning the hard way that her height is not an automatic advantage at this level.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs Oregon State Friday 8 pm - TheFarm07 - 02-21-2020
(02-21-2020, 10:55 PM)martyup Wrote: Boy, they tried to blow a 14 point lead. Turtled and let the Beavers all the way back to 3 down with the ball and 17 seconds to play. Slocum missed the 3 and we win. Should not have been that scary in the end. Good win, though. Dodson was clutch. Williams solid.
We really made some poor offensive decision-making when we had the big lead. Though Kiana came up with some big shots, some of her floating jump shots were questionable and Lexie trying to get the ball into Maya with a defender between them was a poor decision. Low reward, high-risk decision.
We let the Beavers back in, they didn't do anything special on defense during that period. We have to put the hammer down and put these games away
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - chimera - 02-22-2020
Good win overall, but we depend too much on Williams, and to her credit she takes on the tough shots at the end and makes plenty of them. I do agree she took a few that were maybe a bit on the high degree of difficulty side when legs are tired at the end of a game tonight. Slocum was the big problem again. She had a great game and almost won it for them at the end with those late threes. I think some of the issue for Lexie is that when she drives she is doing it right - trying to get by her defender and get to the basket. She gets bounced around sometimes with no call though. OSU's guards were getting fouls called for them on drives when they drove right into a defender. To me those should not be fouls. If a defender is right in front of you and both of you are moving, no matter what the defender is doing, standing, moving in a good defensive position, the Macarena, it should not be a foul if the offensive player tried to go through the defense. There has to be some element of going around. But refs called fouls just because the OSU player wanted to go through our defender a few times.
Good thing Wilson was able to come back. She had a good game.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs Oregon State Friday 8 pm - WBB fan - 02-22-2020
(02-21-2020, 08:54 PM)Jskass Wrote:Jenna Brown in street clothes. I am bummed!
Totally bummed. And Lindy at the chalk talk seemed to imply that only Carrington and Jones would be out, and she also made some very positive comments about Jenna and her contribution last weekend. So a real surprise to see her not dressed.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - 81alum - 02-22-2020
My write up is done at the top.
This was a key game. I'm told there is something going on on Monday.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs Oregon State Friday 8 pm - WBB fan - 02-22-2020
(02-21-2020, 10:29 PM)StanFanFam13 Wrote: Folks watching in person, can you shed some light on that technical at the start of the second half? I wasn't clear on what happened based on the Pac-12 broadcast.
Wow, I was there and had no idea what it was about, and no one around me did either. I was hoping that the Pac 12 broadcast would give me the answer. I guess not. Does anyone know?
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - treetop11 - 02-22-2020
First of all, I hate the beavers - not just in WBB, but also MBB, football, and probably other sports. So I'm thrilled that we swept them this year. Many years ago, I got censored from their board for saying their players were dirty. It seems like whenever we play them, at least in the major sports, we suffer injuries. Probably "dirty" is not the correct word as I don't think they intentionally try to hurt our players. But of all, the P12 schools, they are the only one that plays aggressively without any regard for the rules or concern that doing so can lead to injury. Other teams play tough, aggressively, and physical, but OSU is always pushing the envelope. WSU is somewhat similar, but still not as bad. It seems that these schools can't recruit at the same level as the other P12 schools so they get kids who over compensate and don't seem to care about risk to their bodies or opponents.
Statistically, OSU beat us tonight in just about every category. Kianna again saved our bacon - you can bet Oregon will look to put major pressure on her and contain her. Dodson looked unstoppable at first, not so much later. I'm happy we avoided an epic collapse, but it was disturbing that we did some inexplicable things on both O and D to allow OSU to mount a comeback. Our defense, though generally very good, sure allows far too many drives to the basket with scores, either allowing a lay in, or we foul, or lay in and a foul. Also, too many post up scores. We aren't doubling this year or trapping and we don't see much help defense especially on the drives. It's mostly all one on one defense and if our player gets beat, the other team often scores.
Again, FTs reared its ugly head. OSU was perfect from the line 12-12. We missed 4 and were 67% - can't do that in close games, if we had matched them at the line, a more comfortable win and not a nail biter. Good part is that we had as many FTs as them whereas usually the other team has more.
Good win though. I don't see how we beat Oregon though. Our depth is closer to what it was at the beginning of the season, but Oregon is superior in talent at every position except PG and Ki can't do it all especially if Oregon shuts her down. The season has been misleading with Carrington out, Dodson only playing last three games, and Jones now out. If Oregon had injuries at the same positions, Hebard, Sabbally, and Ionescu would be out and ducks would have lost many games. Our three players don't equal their three, but ours are still excellent and would have made a big difference.
Terrific simulator posted above, and from what I see, we have no chance for a #1 seed, win 1-2 games of the remaining three and highly likely to be #2 seed, or if we tank, we could slip to #4 seed. Wins over Oregon and/or Arizona are the most important. Would be nice to win out and tie Oregon for regular season first place, but still would be #2 seed since Ucla came back and beat WSU tonight. However, doesn't much matter if we are 1 or 2 a we would not be in Oregon's bracket; only difference might be depending on remaining games, which teams would end up in our bracket and the types of match ups we would face.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - 2006alum - 02-22-2020
Well, that was unnecessarily stressful! Not too much to add beyond 81's great writeup, but I will say the drop-off from Brown to Washington in their post rotation helped us bigly. Whenever Washington had the ball on offense, I could relax just a bit. Goodman and Tudor were also non-presences until Tudor's clutch shot at the end.
I too had no idea what caused Rueck's technical. I assume either he was arguing with an official or else too far onto the court? There were one or two other times I think he could have been called for leaving the bench area entirely, but it was when the ball was at the other end and the refs weren't looking.
I was so, so impressed with Williams. It looked like she banged her hip just before halftime, and she definitely came out looking tentative early in the third. But she gritted her way through, was poised down the stretch, and hit just enough to keep us ahead. And the absurdity of Slocum's shove and hooking elbows and sending Williams to the hardwood was matched only by the OSU coaches protesting her getting called on back to back fouls for it! I also felt like Pivec got away with a lot of elbows too.
And 81, I agree, Wilson deserved the "and the rest" game ball -- she was quietly efficient on offense and dogged on defense. And so glad she was able to come back in and play with ease in the second half. Injury scare moments are the worst!
Really glad our team gets the extra day of rest before Monday night's game - Williams, Wilson, and Dodson all took hard falls.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - M T - 02-22-2020
The box score indicates a technical foul on the bench at Q3 4:43. PAC-12 video & audio indicate it was on the head coach. At the time of the foul (against Stanford) through just after, Rueck was sitting calmly on the bench. From then until the ads started, the video shows neither him nor where he was sitting. So no video clues. After the video comes back, he seems completely calm.
I've seen him clearly intentionally get technical fouls before. Announcers like to say it gives extra emotion to the players. I suspect this was a cold blooded intent to get a technical to get increased benefit from the refs. (The players would know the technical wasn't because of an immediately preceding bad call. Why should they get extra emotion out of it when it is so cold blooded?)
Don't believe the announcer's claims later about Rueck sitting for a long time after the T. He is standing the next time his team comes down the court, and moments later standing on the playing surface, talking to an official, while one of his players is taking a foul shot after (SURPRISE!) a foul is called on Stanford.
Did it work for Rueck? His team was down 8 at the time and wound up down 3. Stanford's lead was expanding at the time of the technical and contracted thereafter. The biggest lead for Stanford was at the score on the possession awarded as the result of the technical.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - M T - 02-22-2020
(02-22-2020, 12:30 AM)treetop11 Wrote: Terrific simulator posted above, and from what I see, we have no chance for a #1 seed, win 1-2 games of the remaining three and highly likely to be #2 seed, or if we tank, we could slip to #4 seed. Wins over Oregon and/or Arizona are the most important. Would be nice to win out and tie Oregon for regular season first place, but still would be #2 seed since Ucla came back and beat WSU tonight. However, doesn't much matter if we are 1 or 2 a we would not be in Oregon's bracket; only difference might be depending on remaining games, which teams would end up in our bracket and the types of match ups we would face.
Just to make it clear.... "#1 seed" here means "#1 seed in the PAC-12 tournament". Frankly, getting the #4 or worse seed is the bad thing. #2 and #3 don't play Oregon until the championship. In all probability the only game that really matters to Stanford is the Arizona game. Beat Arizona and lose the other 2, we're #3 (ie, not #4). Lose to Arizona requires us to win both against Oregon & ASU (or requires Arizona to lose to one of Colorado or Cal) to not be #4
Obviously if we're #2 or #3, we'd have to beat UCLA to get to the P12 championship, and to get another win for Tara's record. And, another good win for NCAA tournament placement.
Heck, let's just simplify it... If Stanford can win the rest of their games this year, I'm all smiles. Lose one, and I'm probably happy. Lose two, and maybe I'm ok (to possibly ecstatic) with it. Anyway the Stanford season goes into April, I'm probably quite happy. Win their last game of the year and I'm ecstatic.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - 81alum - 02-22-2020
A few observations upon sleep and reflection:
1. I have no idea what the technical was, but when play started up again I saw Rueck cross over the line and the court border. I even tried to yell "Do it again Rueck!" but only a pathetic frog voice came out. I think Rueck calls more plays from the bench than any other coach we have seen, and he is often directly communicating with his team during the action. He has a tendency to wander a bit too far. On the other hand, I too have seen him deliberately get technicals.
2. Treetop, I don't see the statistical disparity that you do in the boxscore. They did have 6 more defensive rebounds, but that is because we took 64 shots to their 55--a pretty big edge to us. Both sides had exactly 18 O-boards. You are right that we left four points on the table by shooting 8/12 free throws, and OSU shot 12/12. That hurt, but our percentage was not far off our average and I think OSU simply had an unusually perfect night shooting free throws. Certainly edge to OSU there. OSU also did have an edge in assists and in blocks, but we had the edge in steals and a big one in turnovers. Both sides were tied in fouls. Both sides shot within about a percent of each other. When I look over the statline I kind of see a wash or a slight edge for us.
3. I think more of a problem was that we deserved a lot more free throws than OSU got. The refs were letting a lot of moving screens go on defense until they reversed themselves late in the 3rd, and as Chimera has pointed out they were allowing OSU drivers to manufacture fouls for themselves by angling into our moving defenders. As far as the moving screens are concerned, I wish our own screeners had adjusted and carried their own screens "off the line of scrimmage" to see if we could have benefited from the non calls too. As for the manufactured fouls--while I don't like them, this has become a part of basketball. Kelsey Plum scored a third of her points on free throws she created by using this technique. I imagine there are drills in practice on how to do this, driving and shooting while running into a cushion or somesuch. This is something that Carrington did very well. We need to become better at generating those for our own players as one of the now accepted skills in basketball.
4. Did anyone else notice how much use we made of the two person screen at the top of the arc to spring Williams? It did not look terribly effective to me but Williams did have a very good night. We've seen this double screen before, but I don't think I've ever seen it used so much in a single game. How effective was it? On the one hand, Williams did very well. But on the other, I never remember seeing any OSU players getting hung up on it. Was the constant use of this double screen really part of William's success? (This screen did NOT move, by the way, or maybe it could have been more effective?)
5. Dodson remains a mystery to me. When she started the game she seemed to take OSU by surprise, and made two layups in the first minute of the game. She went 1/6 with only a single rebound the rest of the way. It looked to me as if she could not make shots from the blocks off of glass, but could only make shots from in front of the basket and without using glass. Am I being too critical? It sure seemed that OSU rapidly figured out the scouting report on her and neutralized her offensively. I should add, however, that I thought her defense was superb throughout the game--it was especially fun to see her guarding little Slocum. Dodson seems much more fluid and less awkward around the basket than earlier in her career, but I still wonder about her versatility with scoring, but am not confident I understand her strengths and weaknesses properly.
6. What happened to Prechtel? She seemed to disappear as the game went along. Jones did shoot over her a couple of times--my theory is that Tara pulled her because she was not doing something on defense that she wanted to see. What was that? I don't see how anyone was going to defend Jones one on one that far down in the paint. So what was it that Jerome and even Belibi were able to do on defense that Prechtel could not? Because Prechtel sure seems better offensively to me around the basket than anyone else we have got just now. On the other hand, Prechtel was just 1/5 herself last night in her 10 minutes, so maybe it wasn't her defense?
RE: WBB: Stanford vs Oregon State Friday 8 pm - glovsave - 02-22-2020
(02-21-2020, 10:29 PM)StanFanFam13 Wrote: Folks watching in person, can you shed some light on that technical at the start of the second half? I wasn't clear on what happened based on the Pac-12 broadcast.
The technical was an Assistant Head Coach and from my seat I think it was Brian Holsinger. He was yelling at the ref about some issue at the beginning of the time out.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - BosCard - 02-22-2020
(02-22-2020, 08:28 AM)81alum Wrote: A few observations upon sleep and reflection:
1. I have no idea what the technical was, but when play started up again I saw Rueck cross over the line and the court border. I even tried to yell "Do it again Rueck!" but only a pathetic frog voice came out. I think Rueck calls more plays from the bench than any other coach we have seen, and he is often directly communicating with his team during the action. He has a tendency to wander a bit too far. On the other hand, I too have seen him deliberately get technicals.
2. Treetop, I don't see the statistical disparity that you do in the boxscore. They did have 6 more defensive rebounds, but that is because we took 64 shots to their 55--a pretty big edge to us. Both sides had exactly 18 O-boards. You are right that we left four points on the table by shooting 8/12 free throws, and OSU shot 12/12. That hurt, but our percentage was not far off our average and I think OSU simply had an unusually perfect night shooting free throws. Certainly edge to OSU there. OSU also did have an edge in assists and in blocks, but we had the edge in steals and a big one in turnovers. Both sides were tied in fouls. Both sides shot within about a percent of each other. When I look over the statline I kind of see a wash or a slight edge for us.
3. I think more of a problem was that we deserved a lot more free throws than OSU got. The refs were letting a lot of moving screens go on defense until they reversed themselves late in the 3rd, and as Chimera has pointed out they were allowing OSU drivers to manufacture fouls for themselves by angling into our moving defenders. As far as the moving screens are concerned, I wish our own screeners had adjusted and carried their own screens "off the line of scrimmage" to see if we could have benefited from the non calls too. As for the manufactured fouls--while I don't like them, this has become a part of basketball. Kelsey Plum scored a third of her points on free throws she created by using this technique. I imagine there are drills in practice on how to do this, driving and shooting while running into a cushion or somesuch. This is something that Carrington did very well. We need to become better at generating those for our own players as one of the now accepted skills in basketball.
4. Did anyone else notice how much use we made of the two person screen at the top of the arc to spring Williams? It did not look terribly effective to me but Williams did have a very good night. We've seen this double screen before, but I don't think I've ever seen it used so much in a single game. How effective was it? On the one hand, Williams did very well. But on the other, I never remember seeing any OSU players getting hung up on it. Was the constant use of this double screen really part of William's success? (This screen did NOT move, by the way, or maybe it could have been more effective?)
5. Dodson remains a mystery to me. When she started the game she seemed to take OSU by surprise, and made two layups in the first minute of the game. She went 1/6 with only a single rebound the rest of the way. It looked to me as if she could not make shots from the blocks off of glass, but could only make shots from in front of the basket and without using glass. Am I being too critical? It sure seemed that OSU rapidly figured out the scouting report on her and neutralized her offensively. I should add, however, that I thought her defense was superb throughout the game--it was especially fun to see her guarding little Slocum. Dodson seems much more fluid and less awkward around the basket than earlier in her career, but I still wonder about her versatility with scoring, but am not confident I understand her strengths and weaknesses properly.
6. What happened to Prechtel? She seemed to disappear as the game went along. Jones did shoot over her a couple of times--my theory is that Tara pulled her because she was not doing something on defense that she wanted to see. What was that? I don't see how anyone was going to defend Jones one on one that far down in the paint. So what was it that Jerome and even Belibi were able to do on defense that Prechtel could not? Because Prechtel sure seems better offensively to me around the basket than anyone else we have got just now. On the other hand, Prechtel was just 1/5 herself last night in her 10 minutes, so maybe it wasn't her defense?
I think Dodson is by far our best post defender. It's a little bit to do with how she defends post players. For example, there was one sequence where OSU was trying to get the ball to Jones in the post and Dodson just used her strength to push her out of the key. But she is only a little bit better than say Fingall at post player defense. Where Dodson shines is when the opposing team pick and rolls and Dodson is on the guard. She is quick enough to get out and contest a three and quick enough to stay in front of a player like Slocum. And certainly big and long enough to bother any inside shot from a small guard.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - 81alum - 02-22-2020
I just watched the replay of the game and got a chance to see it all again. Very interesting was Rueck's halftime interview. He is always more informative than Tara. In talking about Slocum, he noted "Her gift is the ability to shoot through closely contested shots and over taller defenders." Yes indeed. She can be defended well and still be unstoppable. Asked about Taylor Jones, he observed that they had not been getting it to her enough, and that had been a focus of their halftime adjustments. He also noted wryly "It will be interesting to see what adjustments they (Stanford) will come out with." He and Tara are used to playing the halftime chess match. Rueck is the coach most like Tara in the league, I think, although he is more open than she is.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - BobK - 02-22-2020
Post game we were talking about that terrible throw it into the back court pass with under a minute. Almost cost us the game. That and foul them with a minute and less. We had 4 to give the last we would be up three they shooting two
But a win is a win and I love that
At the half I told 81 and others Beavers were the direst team even. The constant moving screens by Jones the arm throw to the defender by Slocum. But in the second half much cleaner.
Makes me wonder if a Pac 12 evaluator in the house and goes into the refs room at the half and discusses the rules with the three blind mice. Maybe
Williams was awesome. I’ll argue with my seat mate never too much Williams.
That said would be nice to have Brown back she had been playing well.
Oregon next and a rumor heard last night 6.000 tix already sold. A rumor but??
Boley 8 of 9 threes in the win over cal
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Oregon State 60 - 81alum - 02-22-2020
In the second half the refs called moving screens on OSU's Jones and on Washington, and two quick fouls on Slocum for her close defense on Williams. I think that made a big difference.
OSU was ready to trap Lexie to force that final turnover that gave them a chance at the game. Advantage Rueck on that one.
I thought our foul with 4.4 seconds left was brilliant, but I don't know why we did not foul again on the inbounds, but permitted them to take a shot. I guess fear of fouling ON the three point shot, but we had another foul to give.