We can beat this! - Printable Version

We can beat this! - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: We can beat this! (/thread-19129.html)

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RE: TreesAndBirds - JustAnotherFan - 03-19-2020

(03-18-2020, 05:56 PM)TreesAndBirds Wrote: We have put up an American flag. Not to be political, but to signal that we’re all in this together, and that the generations that came before us had some pretty tough challenges too. This is our time.

??

No thanks.

RE: TreesAndBirds - cardcrimson - 03-19-2020

(03-19-2020, 11:01 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-18-2020, 05:56 PM)TreesAndBirds Wrote: We have put up an American flag. Not to be political, but to signal that we’re all in this together, and that the generations that came before us had some pretty tough challenges too. This is our time.

??

No thanks.

No thanks on what?

RE: TreesAndBirds - JustAnotherFan - 03-19-2020

(03-19-2020, 11:06 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:01 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-18-2020, 05:56 PM)TreesAndBirds Wrote: We have put up an American flag. Not to be political, but to signal that we’re all in this together, and that the generations that came before us had some pretty tough challenges too. This is our time.

??

No thanks.

No thanks on what?

No thanks on everyone putting up an American flag. But I misread what TreesAndBirds posted. I thought he said "We have to put up an American flag."

RE: TreesAndBirds - cardcrimson - 03-19-2020

(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:06 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:01 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-18-2020, 05:56 PM)TreesAndBirds Wrote: We have put up an American flag. Not to be political, but to signal that we’re all in this together, and that the generations that came before us had some pretty tough challenges too. This is our time.

??

No thanks.

No thanks on what?

No thanks on everyone putting up an American flag. But I misread what TreesAndBirds posted. I thought he said "We have to put up an American flag."

Sincerely trying to understand your position. What's the issue with putting up an American Flag to show solidarity in time of crisis?

RE: We can beat this! - chrisk - 03-20-2020

Burr says he based his trading on CNBC’s Asia health reporting (smart?). But he seems to be dumb enough not to realize he had to disclose it?

RE: TreesAndBirds - JustAnotherFan - 03-20-2020

(03-19-2020, 11:29 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:06 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:01 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-18-2020, 05:56 PM)TreesAndBirds Wrote: We have put up an American flag. Not to be political, but to signal that we’re all in this together, and that the generations that came before us had some pretty tough challenges too. This is our time.

??

No thanks.

No thanks on what?

No thanks on everyone putting up an American flag. But I misread what TreesAndBirds posted. I thought he said "We have to put up an American flag."

Sincerely trying to understand your position. What's the issue with putting up an American Flag to show solidarity in time of crisis?

The American flag to me represents oppression, bigotry, corruption, and inhumanity. Sorry. I rather show solidarity by organizing within my community.

But I also misread the post. I thought that it was a call for everyone to do it. It wasn't, and if people want to put up their own flags go for it. I won't be putting up a flag.

RE: We can beat this! - ChicagoCard - 03-20-2020

I've seen a number of Italian flags where I am which is a nice gesture.

RE: We can beat this! - Goose - 03-20-2020

Here is a link that contains some first-hand experience in treating COVID-19
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85512?xid=nl_mpt_DHE_2020-03-20&eun=g1475875d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily%20Headlines%20Top%20Cat%20HeC%20%202020-03-20&utm_term=NL_Daily_DHE_dual-gmail-definition
The link may require you to register.

I am including the following quote because it say a lot about what is really going on and why things are a bit more complex than it first appears. It also explains why the Chinese protocol relied so much on other factors in diagnosis.

"Saggar said the slow turnaround for tests, paired with low sensitivity as documented in Chinese data, makes them less useful.
"There were a lot of false negatives [in China], especially early on in asymptomatic patients," Saggar said. "It gives a false sense of security."
The Chinese realized early on that the sensitivity wasn't good, he said, so they would add on a CT scan to diagnose the disease. But that's not practical because the machines have to be shut down for cleaning after each case."

RE: We can beat this! - BostonCard - 03-20-2020

(03-20-2020, 08:12 AM)chrisk Wrote: Burr says he based his trading on CNBC’s Asia health reporting (smart?). But he seems to be dumb enough not to realize he had to disclose it?

The fact that he was on air telling people that everything will be fine while at the same time bailing on his own portfolio is pretty damning. Even if not insider trading, which is hard to discern let alone prove, it will be politically very damaging. If even Tucker Carlson was calling on him to resign, he's got problem.

BC

Leftcoast - Leftcoast - 03-21-2020

Good idea, CC. My flag goes up tomorrow.

RE: We can beat this! - OutsiderFan - 03-21-2020

How the hell does Senator stock selling have a f*cking thing to do with beating this virus?

Anyway, not to pee in the "we can beat this" punch bowl, but...
https://www.newsweek.com/vp-chinese-red-cross-says-coronavirus-striken-italy-not-doing-nearly-enough-slow-spread-we-must-1493476

It seems to me Americans have had this notion that Italy has shut everything down, that means they know what must be done to stop spread, and so it should be slowing. Not so says a Red Cross executive from China who visited Italy.

What is alarming to me is even CA's shelter in place order, unless you need to get groceries, go to pharmacy, get takeout, go to the Laundromat, bank, or get gas, seems to track Italy's response. Italy had its largest case increase so far on March 20. Maybe the rate of spread will slow, but the numbers continue to pile up. Only China's absolute stay inside no matter what, you get to come out once a week, actually seems to have stemmed the tide of infections.

I am very concerned that the shelter in place with so many exceptions is going to turn restaurants, grocery stores, and laundromats in particular, into massive virus transmission vectors and not do anything to appreciably slow spread.

RE: We can beat this! - Farm93 - 03-21-2020

(03-21-2020, 06:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: What is alarming to me is even CA's shelter in place order, unless you need to get groceries, go to pharmacy, get takeout, go to the Laundromat, bank, or get gas, seems to track Italy's response. Italy had its largest case increase so far on March 20. Maybe the rate of spread will slow, but the numbers continue to pile up. Only China's absolute stay inside no matter what, you get to come out once a week, actually seems to have stemmed the tide of infections.

I am very concerned that the shelter in place with so many exceptions is going to turn restaurants, grocery stores, and laundromats in particular, into massive virus transmission vectors and not do anything to appreciably slow spread.

Not quite...Korea and Japan have open societies and very densely packed urban areas. The key was testing. Test early, test everyone even remotely connected to known positive patients and then tell those that test positive to get away from everyone else ASAP. Korea and Japan have citizens that are generally very compliant with government and healthcare orders, so they came forward and isolated as instructed.

Sadly for the USA testing early is way too late now, and we definitely didn't have that level of compliance anyway.

We are left with the other half of China's strategy which has been Italy's strategy. Shut everything down. Sadly, for the USA Italy's approaches have not really worked. There were too many moving around the country early. So Italy moved from a regional shutdown to a national shutdown. Then they took to getting their police on the streets. If anything the USA has done even less than Italy.

So now we are banking on either the USA ingenuity to expand health care capabilities (unlikely) or we will have a widespread outbreak, developing some level of herd immunity.

My guess is historians will study the different responses to the pandemic. Korea and Japan will be seen as the best approach for open societies. The race is on between the USA and Italy for the worst response. The USA seems destined to win.

In NYC they are still holding their farmer's market Saturday where small business farms from all over the region come in to sell produce to NYC residents, presumably going back to their home towns after the market closes. That's insanity IMHO.

FWIW - I share your concerns. Flattening the curve needs so many to work together and endure quite a bit of shared sacrifice. That's just not happening in CA and definitely not happening across the USA.

RE: TreesAndBirds - martyup - 03-21-2020

(03-20-2020, 08:39 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote: The American flag to me represents oppression, bigotry, corruption, and inhumanity. Sorry. I rather show solidarity by organizing within my community.

Well, I guess he's off my Christmas card list.

RE: We can beat this! - BostonCard - 03-21-2020

(03-21-2020, 06:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: How the hell does Senator stock selling have a f*cking thing to do with beating this virus?

Anyway, not to pee in the "we can beat this" punch bowl, but...
https://www.newsweek.com/vp-chinese-red-cross-says-coronavirus-striken-italy-not-doing-nearly-enough-slow-spread-we-must-1493476

It seems to me Americans have had this notion that Italy has shut everything down, that means they know what must be done to stop spread, and so it should be slowing. Not so says a Red Cross executive from China who visited Italy.

What is alarming to me is even CA's shelter in place order, unless you need to get groceries, go to pharmacy, get takeout, go to the Laundromat, bank, or get gas, seems to track Italy's response. Italy had its largest case increase so far on March 20. Maybe the rate of spread will slow, but the numbers continue to pile up. Only China's absolute stay inside no matter what, you get to come out once a week, actually seems to have stemmed the tide of infections.

I am very concerned that the shelter in place with so many exceptions is going to turn restaurants, grocery stores, and laundromats in particular, into massive virus transmission vectors and not do anything to appreciably slow spread.

OF remember that what we are seeing now reflects infections that were transmitted 2 weeks or so ago (1 week for cases to become symptomatic, and another week for them to become serious and diagnosed). Plus there is a big backlog of cases. It will take another week to start seeing dividends, but California’s trajectory already seems to be a bit flatter than places like New York where the government dilly dallied while cases started to pile up.

BC

RE: We can beat this! - OutsiderFan - 03-21-2020

The Italy numbers are now in for March 21 and it's not good. Another 6,500 cases, bringing total to 53,000+.

One thing I don't know is where these cases are developing. Are they still primarily in the Northern region, or is North slowing, and numbers elsewhere in the country are growing? Maybe the rate of growth is slowing, even as infections spread?

RE: We can beat this! - BostonCard - 03-21-2020

Even worse on Italy, the number is probably missing a number of deaths.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-homes-insigh/uncounted-among-coronavirus-victims-deaths-sweep-through-italys-nursing-homes-idUSKBN2152V0

There were about 100 more deaths in Bergamo over the first two weeks of the month than there were this time last year, despite only about 30 or so being attributed to coronavirus.

BC

RE: We can beat this! - Goose - 03-21-2020

(03-21-2020, 10:25 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: One thing I don't know is where these cases are developing. Are they still primarily in the Northern region, or is North slowing, and numbers elsewhere in the country are growing? Maybe the rate of growth is slowing, even as infections spread?

The infection rate in some parts of the North of Italy are declining, rapidly in some places. To what degree the lockdown vs. "herd immunity" is responsible is naturally hard to say. Other places in the North are showing a slower rate of increase, but are still increasing. Rome and the South are in early days, but probably will be hit very hard. Many people from the North fled/returned to the South when things got bad in the North and before the lockdown. Undoubtedly lots of cases waiting to be symptomatic. Hopefully it will not be too bad, but it is not yet known. Take a look at http://www.italiatuttobene.it/ for the latest.

RE: TreesAndBirds - Mick - 03-21-2020

(03-20-2020, 08:39 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:29 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:06 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:01 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote: ??

No thanks.

No thanks on what?

No thanks on everyone putting up an American flag. But I misread what TreesAndBirds posted. I thought he said "We have to put up an American flag."

Sincerely trying to understand your position. What's the issue with putting up an American Flag to show solidarity in time of crisis?

The American flag to me represents oppression, bigotry, corruption, and inhumanity. Sorry. I rather show solidarity by organizing within my community.

But I also misread the post. I thought that it was a call for everyone to do it. It wasn't, and if people want to put up their own flags go for it. I won't be putting up a flag.

Perhaps you could fly an upside down American flag. Perhaps people will drop off donations if you fly a Swiss flag.

RE: TreesAndBirds - JustAnotherFan - 03-21-2020

(03-21-2020, 06:27 PM)Mick Wrote:
(03-20-2020, 08:39 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:29 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:06 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: No thanks on what?

No thanks on everyone putting up an American flag. But I misread what TreesAndBirds posted. I thought he said "We have to put up an American flag."

Sincerely trying to understand your position. What's the issue with putting up an American Flag to show solidarity in time of crisis?

The American flag to me represents oppression, bigotry, corruption, and inhumanity. Sorry. I rather show solidarity by organizing within my community.

But I also misread the post. I thought that it was a call for everyone to do it. It wasn't, and if people want to put up their own flags go for it. I won't be putting up a flag.

Perhaps you could fly an upside down American flag. Perhaps people will drop off donations if you fly a Swiss flag.

I guess I could. When I was serving in the United States Army I learned that that was a signal of distress and it seems appropriate at this moment.

RE: TreesAndBirds - Mick - 03-21-2020

(03-21-2020, 06:30 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-21-2020, 06:27 PM)Mick Wrote:
(03-20-2020, 08:39 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:29 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 11:09 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote: No thanks on everyone putting up an American flag. But I misread what TreesAndBirds posted. I thought he said "We have to put up an American flag."

Sincerely trying to understand your position. What's the issue with putting up an American Flag to show solidarity in time of crisis?

The American flag to me represents oppression, bigotry, corruption, and inhumanity. Sorry. I rather show solidarity by organizing within my community.

But I also misread the post. I thought that it was a call for everyone to do it. It wasn't, and if people want to put up their own flags go for it. I won't be putting up a flag.

Perhaps you could fly an upside down American flag. Perhaps people will drop off donations if you fly a Swiss flag.

I guess I could. When I was serving in the United States Army I learned that that was a signal of distress and it seems appropriate at this moment.

Yeah, I know what it means. I encourage you to do so. Best of luck to you.

Some people express a different view of America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPpNn67darU

It's one of the many, many things that makes this a great country. You and I can express our true feelings, thanks to 1A. Natürlich bevorzugen manche Menschen den Faschismus und all die Freuden, die er den Menschen bringt.