Peak bay area? - Printable Version

Peak bay area? - Printable Version

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RE: Peak bay area? - Genuine Realist - 06-04-2020

(06-03-2020, 11:50 PM)magnus Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 09:35 AM)Mick Wrote: 85 and 87 too.

(06-03-2020, 11:44 AM)Mick Wrote:
Going in the other direction, I definitely agree for the 101 vs. the 5. The 101 south of Monterey County is very pleasant during and immediately after the rainy season.
<snip>
And as a native Californian

This mixed article usage confused me. I had to double check it was the same person. =)
My only guess is Mick was raised in NorCal (or just not SoCal) and either temporarily lived in SoCal enough to pick up the important highway designations, or has lots of SoCal friends that have slowly converted him over time.

Or...maybe I'm just misremembering how it works. Is "the" only reserved for the major highways? With ever present Google Maps, it's been a while since I talked directions with a SoCal influenced person.

Apologies, completely off topic. =)

Back in the late 30's, the California Highway Division, or whatever agency it is, knew that in a couple of decades there would be a need for an expanded highway in the South Bay, northern Santa Clara County. It is difficult to imagine now how rural the County was, even in the first half of the Twentieth Century. Many of you know St. Francis High School in Mountain View. That entire area was forest and orchard. A Southern Pacific rail track ran where the Foothill Expressway is now. I used to walk the track in elementary school and junior high. Loyola Corners is actually one of the oldest establishments in the County, probably more than a century old. I imagine it was one of the stops for the train, though it didn't stop there when I was a kid.

At any rate, the Highway Division planned for the freeway to run along the SP track. The State had the right of way. But by the time it got around to building the freeway, in the mid 50's, the town of Los Altos had come into being. (Los Altos was not incorporated until 1952, a year before my family arrived in the County. It's comparatively new.) The new town didn't like the placement at all. It put up furious resistance. At some meeting, the mayor or whoever put his finger arbitrarily on a point a couple miles East - and that's where the freeway runs now. It was absurd, because the State insisted a major thoroughfare had to be placed further east. So the township bought the right of way, floated a bond issue, and built the Foothill Expressway, where 280 was originally sited. It's kind of a joke, because from the aspect of dividing the town, the Expressway isn't much of an improvement.

When 280 first opened in the late 60's, it was absurd. It runs much further west than any of the towns it connects. You had to leave the freeway and drive a couple of miles east to get where you were going. It looks like it tuns North-South, but it doesn't. It goes much more westerly than it does north, then bows back east as it reaches San Francisco. Of course, times have changed in 50 years, and the infrastructure that wasn't there then, is there now. The Sunnyvale-Saratoga road looks like someone designed a caricature of the worst commercial roads in Southern Califorinia. The Stevens Creek Road, which was acually a lovely rural road that led to the creek a long time ago, is an epic disaster.

So I blame 280 for the unnecessary destruction of much of the beauty of the County. Of course, that's not the only factor. The other was San Jose city planning, and Dutch Hamann, the city manager, who never met an expansion or development project he didn't like, and never mind how it matched with the one a block away. This didn't have to be - with a modicum of interurban planning, we could have had our cake and eaten it, too, with attractive industrial parks and shopping areas integrated with residential areas. But it didn't happen.

(P.S. I share Mick's distaste for 87 and 85, particularly 85. But neither is built without 280 first.)

RE: Peak bay area? - Mick - 06-04-2020

(06-03-2020, 11:50 PM)magnus Wrote:
(06-03-2020, 09:35 AM)Mick Wrote: 85 and 87 too.

(06-03-2020, 11:44 AM)Mick Wrote:
Going in the other direction, I definitely agree for the 101 vs. the 5. The 101 south of Monterey County is very pleasant during and immediately after the rainy season.
<snip>
And as a native Californian

This mixed article usage confused me. I had to double check it was the same person. =)
My only guess is Mick was raised in NorCal (or just not SoCal) and either temporarily lived in SoCal enough to pick up the important highway designations, or has lots of SoCal friends that have slowly converted him over time.

Or...maybe I'm just misremembering how it works. Is "the" only reserved for the major highways? With ever present Google Maps, it's been a while since I talked directions with a SoCal influenced person.

Apologies, completely off topic. =)

Born and raised in San Jose, northern california grammar school, high school, college. Roommates/son's godfather/brother all residents of SoCal. Spent an inordinate amount of time in Southern California, as every firm I've been with except my first had SoCal offices. And both sons played volleyball, a sport dominated by SoCal, so that's where the elite players were. I've probably spend 2-4 weeks in SoCal every year since 2005.

RE: Peak bay area? - BostonCard - 06-04-2020

Doesn't the existence of 85 show that even if 280 had been built a few miles to the East (in its originally planned location), something to its south and west would have inevitably been built?

I applied to Stanford sight unseen, and my first visit was during spring break of my senior year (a few weeks before admission notices went out). I visited my cousin, who lived in San Francisco at the time, and she took me to the Stanford campus via 280. Mind you, I was used to San Diego's freeways, and I thought it was a stunning drive. I was smitten with the area, the campus and the school. The only problem is that I hadn't gotten in yet.

And Mick, my first trip up highway 1 was the ensuing fall, when we drove from San Diego to Stanford to drop me off.

I think Mick's mixed article usage makes sense in context. He was talking about 85 and 87 in the context of Northern California. He was talking about "the 101 and the 5" In the context of driving south, specifically, south of Monterrey County.

BC

RE: Peak bay area? - Mick - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 10:01 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Doesn't the existence of 85 show that even if 280 had been built a few miles to the East (in its originally planned location), something to its south and west would have inevitably been built?

I applied to Stanford sight unseen, and my first visit was during spring break of my senior year (a few weeks before admission notices went out). I visited my cousin, who lived in San Francisco at the time, and she took me to the Stanford campus via 280. Mind you, I was used to San Diego's freeways, and I thought it was a stunning drive. I was smitten with the area, the campus and the school. The only problem is that I hadn't gotten in yet.

And Mick, my first trip up highway 1 was the ensuing fall, when we drove from San Diego to Stanford to drop me off.

I think Mick's mixed article usage makes sense in context. He was talking about 85 and 87 in the context of Northern California. He was talking about "the 101 and the 5" In the context of driving south, specifically, south of Monterrey County.

BC

You see what I did there...

RE: Peak bay area? - Genuine Realist - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 10:30 AM)Mick Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 10:01 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Doesn't the existence of 85 show that even if 280 had been built a few miles to the East (in its originally planned location), something to its south and west would have inevitably been built?

I applied to Stanford sight unseen, and my first visit was during spring break of my senior year (a few weeks before admission notices went out). I visited my cousin, who lived in San Francisco at the time, and she took me to the Stanford campus via 280. Mind you, I was used to San Diego's freeways, and I thought it was a stunning drive. I was smitten with the area, the campus and the school. The only problem is that I hadn't gotten in yet.

And Mick, my first trip up highway 1 was the ensuing fall, when we drove from San Diego to Stanford to drop me off.

I think Mick's mixed article usage makes sense in context. He was talking about 85 and 87 in the context of Northern California. He was talking about "the 101 and the 5" In the context of driving south, specifically, south of Monterrey County.

BC

You see what I did there...

I don't think 85 is built without an expansion of infrastructure that 280 made possible, and in the wrong places. But a lot of time passed, and who knows?

RE: Peak bay area? - burger - 06-04-2020

The Cardboard: come for the Stanford sports discussion; stay for the highway planning commentary.

(not totally joking...about 1/4 of my Twitter feed is transportation related)

RE: Peak bay area? - Goose - 06-04-2020

It is also interesting to note that 85 was actually planed to be built much earlier than it actually was Jerry Brown in his first stint as Governor prevented it's construction. It was just "fortunate" that the local cities did prevent much building on the proposed right-of-way during that interval. Obviously, no way to know what effects building it sooner might have had.

RE: Peak bay area? - chrisk - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 02:05 PM)Goose Wrote: It is also interesting to note that 85 was actually planed to be built much earlier than it actually was Jerry Brown in his first stint as Governor prevented it's construction. It was just "fortunate" that the local cities did prevent much building on the proposed right-of-way during that interval. Obviously, no way to know what effects building it sooner might have had.

The path for 85 was laid out in the 50s but only the portion northeast of Stevens Creek was built by 1965. It took almost 30 more years for the southern portion of 85 to be built.

RE: Peak bay area? - 82lsju - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 04:24 PM)chrisk Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 02:05 PM)Goose Wrote: It is also interesting to note that 85 was actually planed to be built much earlier than it actually was Jerry Brown in his first stint as Governor prevented it's construction. It was just "fortunate" that the local cities did prevent much building on the proposed right-of-way during that interval. Obviously, no way to know what effects building it sooner might have had.

The path for 85 was laid out in the 50s but only the portion northeast of Stevens Creek was built by 1965. It took almost 30 years for the southern portion of 85 to be built.

and on 280

Quote:Interstate 280 was added to the Interstate Highway System on September 15, 1955 as a route from San Jose north to San Francisco.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_280_(California)

RE: Peak bay area? - Genuine Realist - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 08:30 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 04:24 PM)chrisk Wrote:
(06-04-2020, 02:05 PM)Goose Wrote: It is also interesting to note that 85 was actually planed to be built much earlier than it actually was Jerry Brown in his first stint as Governor prevented it's construction. It was just "fortunate" that the local cities did prevent much building on the proposed right-of-way during that interval. Obviously, no way to know what effects building it sooner might have had.

The path for 85 was laid out in the 50s but only the portion northeast of Stevens Creek was built by 1965. It took almost 30 years for the southern portion of 85 to be built.

and on 280

Quote:Interstate 280 was added to the Interstate Highway System on September 15, 1955 as a route from San Jose north to San Francisco.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_280_(California)

That's interesting. I was nine years old on that date. The controversy as to the route site as it passed Los Altos and points immediately north began then. Even now you can see how ridiculously West it is at Page Mill. You exit and drive at least a mile, maybe more, to the intersection with Foothill, before you come to anything meaningful - and that's after 50 plus years. The original route, as noted, was Foothill itself.

RE: Peak bay area? - oregontim - 06-05-2020

(06-04-2020, 08:30 PM)82lsju Wrote: and on 280

Quote:Interstate 280 was added to the Interstate Highway System on September 15, 1955 as a route from San Jose north to San Francisco.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_280_(California)

FWIW, that same entry in Wikipedia adds

Quote:For the scenic portion, the section of I-280 between SR 85 (Cupertino) and SR 84 (Woodside) was completed in the late 1960s.

Which brings it into synch with GR's memories, 280 through Los Altos was more like 1966 or 67. I too was raised in that area.

And re some other earlier posts, the exodus out of California. My wife and I moved our family from Palo Alto to Eugene in 1992. I still miss what was then called "Blossom Valley" as it was in the 50s and 60s — idyllic — but it would take a time machine to make me move back there happily today.

Leftcoast - Leftcoast - 06-05-2020

I live about 2 blocks off Blossom Valley Road In a neighborhood bordering the southern border of the city and a large open space area that can be linked with large parks (Almaden Quicksilver, Sierra Azul, St Joseph’s, Lexington). Protected bike trails are a heavily used resource. Deer, coyotes and the occasional mountain lion are nightly visitors.

While much has changed there are still wonderful areas in Blossom Valley.

RE: Peak bay area? - BostonCard - 06-15-2020

Don't call it anecdotal... it's more like "artisanal data"

https://www.sfgate.com/sf-locals/slideshow/I-m-finally-leaving-Stories-of-Bay-Area-203670.php

BC

RE: Peak bay area? - 82lsju - 06-15-2020

Other anecdotal info, I've seen two companies in the past "commit" to remote working, HP and Yahoo!, who both later reversed course and required all employees to be in a company office at least a few days a week. Depending on where you had decided to move to for remote work, and where the company had offices, you either were in luck or out of a job.

Both times the change was presented as the need for more collaboration than was possible with remote workers (it seemed the real underlying reason was to shed employees who did not show up at least a few days a week in a company office as you essentially quit if you did not accept those terms so they would not have to pay severance). Not saying it will happen in the future but you never know......

RE: Peak bay area? - BostonCard - 06-15-2020

My wife's new job is fully remote, even though her company's corporate headquarters are in the Bay Area. I nonetheless suggested that once we're on the other side of the coronavirus pandemic that she go into the office a few times a month. There are some things that are just best done in face to face meetings.

BC