Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up

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RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Phogge - 11-15-2020

I still remember when Cactus Jack called the lateral from Clark Weaver to Chris Jessen who threw a TD pass to Bob Howard starting the rout of Cal. 1963 would have been a great year if Weaver hadn’t been hurt early.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - BobK - 11-15-2020

In 1963 Ralston was a breath of fresh air.
So we should hire a cal alum

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - gailtate - 11-15-2020

(11-14-2020, 08:10 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:
(11-14-2020, 07:41 PM)BigJohn043 Wrote: Lets get Harbs back. I know it will never happen but we need to do something.
OMG Madness!! Madness!!

The whole point of hiring is you consider the needs of the program, the strengths of the person, the trends in the game.

Harbaugh was an inspired choice 14ish years ago. He was a turnaround specialist and a program builder, and was able to get a great staff and motivate kids 14 years ago.

Harbaugh is now damaged goods. He is well known now not to be an x’s and o’s guy, and he wears out his welcome. His next job should be someplace with a storied past that needs his fire to fundraise, recruit and motivate. Given his recent string of failures, it may not even be a Power 5 team. maybe like one of the UT’s (Austin) or even Rice because his messianic style may fit Texas.

Stanford doesn’t need a turnaround specialist or a program builder. It definitely makes no sense to hire an old man who peaked 10 years ago. It does need someone with a lot of energy to do what it takes to recruit 2 deep, and a fire in the belly to grab and keep a great staff and who will fire when necessary, and who demands of himself and of his staff to deliver up to these insane salaries.

Is that still David Shaw? I’m hopeful that it can be.

"Stanford doesn't need a turnaround specialist or a program builder". And Donald Trump doesn't need to find a hairstylist who uses scissors instead of a paintbrush.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Phogge - 11-15-2020

Hey Bobb.. Taylor is a Cal alum.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - BobK - 11-15-2020

Sac state where Taylor is the head coach abd coach of the year won’t be playing this season. He’s available

lex24 - lex24 - 11-15-2020

(11-14-2020, 10:03 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Why would any of us be happy that Harbaugh is failing at Michigan? Harbaugh did great things for the program and started a 10-year run of success that we have never seen in our history. He left at a good time for a pro job and we were able to build on his success for a time. There should be no I’ll will towards him.

BC

True. He s also a first class asshole. So I have no problem rooting against him. And I also think the bigger loss was not Harbaugh leaving, It was Bowlsby. A guy who cares about football.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Maple Leaf - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 08:24 AM)BobK Wrote: In 1963 Ralston was a breath of fresh air.
So we should hire a cal alum

Ralston's biggest challenge was two fold, convincing people Stanford could both compete and win, plus getting some help from the administration, sure he was able to push the boundaries a bit with both JC transfers and some kids who on the surface looked like they could not manage the academics, but actually he teams did very well on academic front. Ralston was a tireless recruiter, he hand wrote to each member of a high school freshman football team that won a league championship a personal letter of congratulations. The grandson of one of those players eventually played at Stanford, was signed by Hardballs.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - teejers1 - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 06:43 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 06:06 AM)Farm93 Wrote: JH staying on The Farm for another year or two?!? LOL
OK, that idea is funny. Made me laugh.

Harbaugh was actively looking for bigger, more prestigious roles almost before he started coaching at Stanford, definitely was looking hard after the 2008 season. That type of EUTM we admired extended to his career aspirations. There was no way he'd have multiple 10+ win seasons at Stanford. One 10+ win season would be more than enough to keep him on his trajectory at the time. So 2010 was the end of our journey together.

Before we go there EUTM was about accomplishments not the money. So coaching in a relatively quiet 50,000 seat stadium for a small private school in the Pac-12 just was not going to be enough. He almost certainly understood a 10+ win season would be the perfect launching pad for better roles. So we got the one and then he was done.

I am not sure I am happy to see him struggle since I don't think he did anything that warrants that perspective. He was a change agent with a passion to do amazing things as a football coach. Stanford got 4 years. Stanford got a blast of EUTM that fueled the program for a decade. We were lucky to get what we got, and I can't imagine that anyone involved with that hiring process ever thought he would stay more than 3-5 years if he was even moderately successful.

In this particular FBS/CFP era Stanford football will not get to keep an outsider for more than 4 years unless the coach bounces between good (not great) seasons and mediocre/bad seasons like Willingham. And even with his track record Willingham got a more lucrative gig in 7 years.

Yep, that's the Catch-22. Any coach with the football savvy, drive, and moxie to succeed at Stanford is likely to be the kind of guy who will want to move on after he has had some success.
We are going to be a stepping stone. The possible exception might be a Stanford alum. Like we have now.

Maybe you and Farm93 are correct; however, I think you don't appreciate that (i) Stanford is now paying multi-million dollars/year to the head FC, (ii) the allure of the institution recruiting itself to a target audience (regrettably, Shaw's only target audience, and (iii) the general lack of risk of "the 2:00 a.m. call" about your charges.

That's an awful appealing package. And if you believe that a full house is very possible - Harbs did it in less than 4 years - then what's not to like? In short, I suspect there are LOTS of good coaches out there who would be thrilled to make Stanford a long-term stop.

P.S. As for Harbaugh, he accepted the Kansas job in like Year 2 or 3 at Stanford. Why should I feel compelled to wish the guy well? And btw, I confessed to only feeling good a wee bit!

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Mick - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 06:06 AM)Farm93 Wrote: In this particular FBS/CFP era Stanford football will not get to keep an outsider for more than 4 years unless the coach bounces between good (not great) seasons and mediocre/bad seasons like Willingham. And even with his track record Willingham got a more lucrative gig in 7 years.

The Sheriff was darned lucky he got to coach against Tom Holmoe. Without his 7-0 record vs. Cal, TW was 37-36-1. But to be fair, he was 7-5 against USC and Notre Dame, too. Got us to a Rose Bowl, four bowls in seven years, 2-2 with bowls. I was perfectly happy, tbh.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - BostonCard - 11-15-2020

Considering that Harbaugh and Shaw were responsible for the longest stretch of consistent success in Stanford football in most of our lifetimes, there’s an awful lot of animus towards the two of them.

Neither is perfect. But I don’t think either deserves the harsh words uttered in their direction.

BC

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - gailtate - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 01:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Considering that Harbaugh and Shaw were responsible for the longest stretch of consistent success in Stanford football in most of our lifetimes, there’s an awful lot of animus towards the two of them.

Neither is perfect. But I don’t think either deserves the harsh words uttered in their direction.

BC

Stunningly naive. Decent, but naive. In the immortal words of Joe Biden, "C'mon man!" These are two guys making multiple-millions of dollars to coach a schoolboy game. The heat, unreasonable or not, comes with the territory and you can be sure they know it. Especially being the sons of college football coaches.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Maple Leaf - 11-15-2020

Ralston, Walsh, Green, Willingham and Harbaugh all left for an opportunity to be part of something bigger. Walsh was the only one not to get fired at their next stop. Maybe success on the Farm is not an indicator of success at the level. Maybe the next successful coach will stay
My hope is that Shaw is able to achieve such success.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - gailtate - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 06:43 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 06:06 AM)Farm93 Wrote: JH staying on The Farm for another year or two?!? LOL
OK, that idea is funny. Made me laugh.

Harbaugh was actively looking for bigger, more prestigious roles almost before he started coaching at Stanford, definitely was looking hard after the 2008 season. That type of EUTM we admired extended to his career aspirations. There was no way he'd have multiple 10+ win seasons at Stanford. One 10+ win season would be more than enough to keep him on his trajectory at the time. So 2010 was the end of our journey together.

Before we go there EUTM was about accomplishments not the money. So coaching in a relatively quiet 50,000 seat stadium for a small private school in the Pac-12 just was not going to be enough. He almost certainly understood a 10+ win season would be the perfect launching pad for better roles. So we got the one and then he was done.

I am not sure I am happy to see him struggle since I don't think he did anything that warrants that perspective. He was a change agent with a passion to do amazing things as a football coach. Stanford got 4 years. Stanford got a blast of EUTM that fueled the program for a decade. We were lucky to get what we got, and I can't imagine that anyone involved with that hiring process ever thought he would stay more than 3-5 years if he was even moderately successful.

In this particular FBS/CFP era Stanford football will not get to keep an outsider for more than 4 years unless the coach bounces between good (not great) seasons and mediocre/bad seasons like Willingham. And even with his track record Willingham got a more lucrative gig in 7 years.

Yep, that's the Catch-22. Any coach with the football savvy, drive, and moxie to succeed at Stanford is likely to be the kind of guy who will want to move on after he has had some success.
We are going to be a stepping stone. The possible exception might be a Stanford alum. Like we have now.

It's now clear that Shaw's "savvy, drive and moxie to succeed" are in significant decline -- evidenced most clearly by fall-offs in quality hiring, staff upgrading, game-day management and recruiting.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Snorlax94 - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 01:50 PM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 01:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Considering that Harbaugh and Shaw were responsible for the longest stretch of consistent success in Stanford football in most of our lifetimes, there’s an awful lot of animus towards the two of them.

Neither is perfect. But I don’t think either deserves the harsh words uttered in their direction.

BC

Stunningly naive. Decent, but naive. In the immortal words of Joe Biden, "C'mon man!" These are two guys making multiple-millions of dollars to coach a schoolboy game. The heat, unreasonable or not, comes with the territory and you can be sure they know it. Especially being the sons of college football coaches.

Stanford is off to a weak start after a losing season, after two consecutive poor years (it was in the Pac 12 Championship Game as recently 2017).

Some may say, after the greatest run ever from 2011-2015, give Coach Shaw a lot of leeway. Others may argue two or three downward seasons is too much given the high stakes and high compensation, and how quickly the game evolves and how much it constantly demands. I wouldn’t call either perspective “naive.”

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Brickcity - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 02:38 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 01:50 PM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 01:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Considering that Harbaugh and Shaw were responsible for the longest stretch of consistent success in Stanford football in most of our lifetimes, there’s an awful lot of animus towards the two of them.

Neither is perfect. But I don’t think either deserves the harsh words uttered in their direction.

BC

Stunningly naive. Decent, but naive. In the immortal words of Joe Biden, "C'mon man!" These are two guys making multiple-millions of dollars to coach a schoolboy game. The heat, unreasonable or not, comes with the territory and you can be sure they know it. Especially being the sons of college football coaches.

Stanford is off to a weak start after a losing season, after two consecutive poor years (it was in the Pac 12 Championship Game as recently 2017).

Some may say, after the greatest run ever from 2011-2015, give Coach Shaw a lot of leeway. Others may argue two or three downward seasons is too much given the high stakes and high compensation, and how quickly the game evolves and how much it constantly demands. I wouldn’t call either perspective “naive.” Maybe watch a movie with a friend and chill.

Gotta agree with Gailtate's take on this topic. First of all, no one is slamming Shaw personally. I think everyone agrees he's a good guy. But, calling him out on his failures as a head coach is absolutely fair game! I have to admit I'm almost learning to take some sort of perverse pleasure in slamming Shaw for his failings - frankly, it's more entertaining than watching the games!

Harbaugh may deserve some criticism for his failings as a personality, but it sounds like such criticisms are based on repeated behavior on his part. Of course, I'll always be grateful to him for what he did for the program.

Back to Shaw: I still root for the guy to make the necessary changes to the program, but am very skeptical that he ever will. Time will tell. Bummer.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - gailtate - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 02:55 PM)Brickcity Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 02:38 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 01:50 PM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 01:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Considering that Harbaugh and Shaw were responsible for the longest stretch of consistent success in Stanford football in most of our lifetimes, there’s an awful lot of animus towards the two of them.

Neither is perfect. But I don’t think either deserves the harsh words uttered in their direction.

BC

Stunningly naive. Decent, but naive. In the immortal words of Joe Biden, "C'mon man!" These are two guys making multiple-millions of dollars to coach a schoolboy game. The heat, unreasonable or not, comes with the territory and you can be sure they know it. Especially being the sons of college football coaches.

Stanford is off to a weak start after a losing season, after two consecutive poor years (it was in the Pac 12 Championship Game as recently 2017).

Some may say, after the greatest run ever from 2011-2015, give Coach Shaw a lot of leeway. Others may argue two or three downward seasons is too much given the high stakes and high compensation, and how quickly the game evolves and how much it constantly demands. I wouldn’t call either perspective “naive.” Maybe watch a movie with a friend and chill.

Gotta agree with Gailtate's take on this topic. First of all, no one is slamming Shaw personally. I think everyone agrees he's a good guy. But, calling him out on his failures as a head coach is absolutely fair game! I have to admit I'm almost learning to take some sort of perverse pleasure in slamming Shaw for his failings - frankly, it's more entertaining than watching the games!

Harbaugh may deserve some criticism for his failings as a personality, but it sounds like such criticisms are based on repeated behavior on his part. Of course, I'll always be grateful to him for what he did for the program.

Back to Shaw: I still root for the guy to make the necessary changes to the program, but am very skeptical that he ever will. Time will tell. Bummer.

I'm on record as a Shawpologist beginning with the Fiesta Bowl fiasco, 2011. Again after the Utah giveaway in 2013. Then came the 2014 Rose Bowl game. These were exasperating losses to absolutely beatable teams. Still, I was an outspoken supporter but my doubts were building. The disappointing 2014 season I wrote off to Kevin Hogan's family crisis and tragic death of his dad. Still I stood with Shaw. From then on, even during the P12 North championship, Shaw's style and decisions were getting harder to rationalize. All the while, the program he inherited was eroding and he failed to replenish top-flight staff and to recruit aggressively, creatively. He was stuck in a 2011 time-warp. I was lulled by the miracle finish in Eugene, 2018. But, in retrospect, things began to turn and accelerate downward from there. Yes, there was the win over Pitt in the Sun Bowl. Then? An accelerated decline. To the place where Stanford is floundering today. Wish I could see some glimmers of hope. I see nuthin' but the same ol' same ol'. Saw it again vs. the underdog Buffs and their new coach--their THIRD IN THREE YEARS. I no longer apologize.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Softball Fan - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 01:50 PM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-15-2020, 01:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Considering that Harbaugh and Shaw were responsible for the longest stretch of consistent success in Stanford football in most of our lifetimes, there’s an awful lot of animus towards the two of them.

Neither is perfect. But I don’t think either deserves the harsh words uttered in their direction.

BC

Stunningly naive. Decent, but naive. In the immortal words of Joe Biden, "C'mon man!" These are two guys making multiple-millions of dollars to coach a schoolboy game. The heat, unreasonable or not, comes with the territory and you can be sure they know it. Especially being the sons of college football coaches.

"Stunningly naive" I am getting tired of the cheap useless insults on this message board directly toward someone with a different point of view. Dude, just make your point. Enough with the personal insults.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - Phogge - 11-15-2020

Gilmore, "Shaw is the greatest coach in Stanford history." Maybe the most wins but he is on a much lower plane than Pop Warner and Walsh. Plus they were creative innovators. Warner invented the double wing and Walsh put together an offense with the best of Sid Gillman and Paul Brown's schemes. Shaw has invented nada.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - BobK - 11-15-2020

Took Stanford to three Rose Bowls. Only 7 total in our lifetimes Phogge.

RE: Let me cheer 98% of the CardBoard up - oregontim - 11-15-2020

(11-15-2020, 05:52 PM)paloalto Wrote: "Stunningly naive" I am getting tired of the cheap useless insults on this message board directly toward someone with a different point of view. Dude, just make your point. Enough with the personal insults.

Well said, PaloAlto. I see all the ad-hominem I can stand on Twitter and Facebook. Not here, please.