Outside Topic OT Niners - Printable Version

Outside Topic OT Niners - Printable Version

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RE: OT Niners - Phogge - 12-24-2020

Sorry OF, NFW. They need to fill out the roster because they didn’t have many picks last year and the cap next year means that they can’t sign all the decent FA’s on the roster. Plus who knows how the injured guys like Ronald Blair will heal. Got to keep the picks.

RE: OT Niners - OutsiderFan - 12-24-2020

(12-24-2020, 10:43 AM)Phogge Wrote: Sorry OF, NFW. They need to fill out the roster because they didn’t have many picks last year and the cap next year means that they can’t sign all the decent FA’s on the roster. Plus who knows how the injured guys like Ronald Blair will heal. Got to keep the picks.

A good QB overcomes a lot of roster holes. I would apply "NFW" to bringing Garoppolo back. A QB that needs a stacked roster and can only play 50% of games since I signed him, would not be an option for me.

lex24 - lex24 - 12-24-2020

(12-24-2020, 05:40 AM)Phogge Wrote: The Niner QB situation at least will fan the off season fires and bridge the gap between MLB and the NFL for those of us who don’t follow the NBA.

- Do they dump Pretty Boy and either sign a vet like Stafford or do they pick one of the top guys left in the draft (Jones, Lance, Book)?

- If they pick up a Stafford-like do they draft a project backup in the fourth round?

- Do they roll the dice and take Mills in the second round and keep Jimmy? This after taking a corner in the first round?

I’d take Mills before Book.

Managing the cap is going to be a big issue. With JG being a big part of that. Williams, Juzcheck key guys to sign. They have two good young receivers in Aiyuk and Samuel. Be nice to pick up a true deep threat. (Although more important to find someone that can get it there). The o-line needs upgrading. Same with d-backs. Sherman undoubtedly gone. Tartt is an FA.

Here’s a wild prediction from ESPN:

Niners trade JG to NE 5th for round pick. And then trade there 1st and 2nd this year, 1st and 3d next year and Jalen Hurd to Jets for no 2 overall (Niners currently at 12) and Jets 4th round. Jets might be willing to do that if they think Darnold can be a solid quarterback as they’re getting an awful lot in return. I doubt the Niners would do it. Because you make that move you have to be dead spot on correct about who are you picking in that number two slot. If he does not turn out to be a franchise quarterback, you have doomed the franchise for years to come. Is Fields a lock, is Wilson, or Lange? Pick wrong and you are the Chicago Bears.

RE: OT Niners - Phogge - 12-24-2020

A good QB doesn’t overcome a weakness at one corner assuming the Niners resign Verrett at the other spot. It doesn’t overcome the safety position that Tartt plays nor the need for an edge given Blair’s injury and the probable release of Ford. It doesn’t overcome McGlinchy’s whiffing at least once a game. It doesn’t overcome the depth problem at guard and center. Trading the picks is a disaster. Plus you need money to extend their best player, Warner.

lex24 - lex24 - 12-24-2020

The Niners need to consider where they would be if JG, Kittle, Bosa Mostert and Samuels didn’t miss most of the season. Obviously they had a ton of injuries. But had just those 5 stayed healthy, would they be a playoff team? That’s the first question I’d ask. If you believe, yes, then it’s filling in. If no, it’s time for bold moves.

RE: lex24 - old spanish trail - 12-24-2020

(12-24-2020, 11:54 AM)lex24 Wrote: The Niners need to consider where they would be if JG, Kittle, Bosa Mostert and Samuels didn’t miss most of the season. Obviously they had a ton of injuries. But had just those 5 stayed healthy, would they be a playoff team? That’s the first question I’d ask. If you believe, yes, then it’s filling in. If no, it’s time for bold moves.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

The answer is yes.

lex24 - lex24 - 12-24-2020

(12-24-2020, 12:17 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: [quote="lex24" pid='302810' dateline='1608836092']
The Niners need to consider where they would be if JG, Kittle, Bosa Mostert and Samuels didn’t miss most of the season. Obviously they had a ton of injuries. But had just those 5 stayed healthy, would they be a playoff team? That’s the first question I’d ask. If you believe, yes, then it’s filling in. If no, it’s time for bold moves.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

The answer is yes.

I tend to agree. Question than becomes, can they win an SB with JG? If no, they should consider some move. Stafford would be interesting. If reigned it, he’d be an upgrade.
Then draft a “second group “ QB. Second or third round. Problem is cap space. They’d have to find a taker for JG. That is not likely.

RE: OT Niners - Phogge - 12-24-2020

If they find a taker, great. But he doesn’t count that much against the cap. Got to look for other cap releases. Need a RT desperately. The Domer there is a disaster.

Going to be interesting. The Niners have their own Miezen and Farrah. Jalen Hurd. Much potential but so far he is crystal. Could be a Red Zone terror.

RE: OT Niners - teejers1 - 12-24-2020

(12-24-2020, 12:46 PM)Phogge Wrote: If they find a taker, great. But he doesn’t count that much against the cap. Got to look for other cap releases. Need a RT desperately. The Domer there is a disaster.

Going to be interesting. The Niners have their own Miezen and Farrah. Jalen Hurd. Much potential but so far he is crystal. Could be a Red Zone terror.

The entire discussion of roster management is polluted by the ridiculous CBA rules regarding rookie deals. 4-5 years means drafted players are locked in by teams, and the good ones always underpaid. If rookie deals were 2 years only, then teams would be better able to allocate $$ on a real-time; real-performance basis . . . and oh yeah, players would better get what they deserved. Right now, everybody wants as many draft picks as possible because you get them for pennies on the dollar compared to free agents. It shouldn't be that way, and the players union should make that the #1 thing to change in next CBA (hell, I don't know why teams oppose it - except they all must have the hubris to think they can ID hidden gems better than others). But with a salary cap, why do they care about 4-5 year rookie deals? Everyone makes draft mistakes, even the most astute.

Let the market better regulate NFL salaries.

Mini-rant over.

'Niners should renegotiate Jimmy G's contract - he's not worth $25M next year (not close to that). He wouldn't get that on open market, so take less and allow your team to be better around you. Then draft a QB in mid rounds (3rd or 4th). Maybe second. Mills would be a steal anywhere after mid-second round, imo.

RE: lex24 - Mick - 12-26-2020

(12-24-2020, 12:20 PM)lex24 Wrote:
(12-24-2020, 12:17 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: [quote="lex24" pid='302810' dateline='1608836092']
The Niners need to consider where they would be if JG, Kittle, Bosa Mostert and Samuels didn’t miss most of the season. Obviously they had a ton of injuries. But had just those 5 stayed healthy, would they be a playoff team? That’s the first question I’d ask. If you believe, yes, then it’s filling in. If no, it’s time for bold moves.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

The answer is yes.

I tend to agree. Question than becomes, can they win an SB with JG? If no, they should consider some move. Stafford would be interesting. If reigned it, he’d be an upgrade.
Than draft a “second group “ QB. Second or third round. Problem is cap space. They’d have to find a taker for JG. That is not likely.

Even in their Super Bowl season, JG was the 12th ranked QB in the NFL, and that was before his various knee and ankle injuries. His near-complete immobility now renders him incapable of functioning at a high level, in my opinion.

RE: OT Niners - OutsiderFan - 12-26-2020

Can the Cardinals and Niners both blow this game for themselves today? The Cardinals must win to secure a playoff spot and the Niners should lose to improve draft position. James Lofton is doing the commentary in case that intrigues anyone here.

Niners lead 7-6 at Halftime.

RE: OT Niners - OutsiderFan - 12-26-2020

Well, both teams screwed themselves.

The Cardinals lost, which allows the Bears to control their destiny for final playoff spot. And by losing, the Niners got passed by the Lions in draft pecking order, and who knows how many other teams.

Was shocked how terrible the Cardinals were. Looked like they were hung over and weren't taking the 49ers seriously.

HOW in the hell did they give up 14 catches and 151 yards to Hopkins in the first game, and hold him to 8 catches for 48 yards? In this game, Sherman was out, and so were both starting Safeties.

RE: OT Niners - teejers1 - 12-26-2020

(12-26-2020, 05:44 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Well, both teams screwed themselves.

The Cardinals lost, which allows the Bears to control their destiny for final playoff spot. And by losing, the Niners got passed by the Lions in draft pecking order, and who knows how many other teams.

Was shocked how terrible the Cardinals were. Looked like they were hung over and weren't taking the 49ers seriously.

HOW in the hell did they give up 14 catches and 151 yards to Hopkins in the first game, and hold him to 8 catches for 48 yards? In this game, Sherman was out, and so were both starting Safeties.

Apparently ESPN pre-game had the 'Niners' chances of a W at 5%. That is preposterous.

The 49ers have a pretty good defense, even with the injuries. Offensively, the running game is solid (at least), and Shanahan can scheme a mediocre QB into serviceable. Today, Beathard was far more than that. I'm glad the 'Niners won - many guys are playing for jobs/future contracts and professionals compete and want to win. So, good for them (even if they drop in the draft ranks).

Also, I've been down on the AZ coach, particularly lately - for reasons unrelated to football. In a recent game, the dude simply would not wear his mask. It was ridiculous - every time the camera panned to him, he was speaking with the guys upstairs or calling in the plays without mask. I thought: I hope the NFL fines the crap out of him for that brazen display.

No clue if it did or not; but from then on, I've been rooting against the Cardinals. BTW, Murray may be the best running QB out there (or just behind Ravens' Jackson, but he made some very dubious throws out there today. It's hard to see the Cardinals being much of a playoff threat, even if they sneak in.

RE: OT Niners - Phogge - 12-26-2020

Varett was a big reason Hopkins was held down. Gotta resign him. The other reason was Murray. One of the worst passes of the year on the two point try.

Witherspoon made some plays reminiscent of 2018. Still need another corner. Sherman has a bad leg and that’s three years running. He fought through it last year. Looks like he may be close to done. The safeties Moore and Harris hit hard and Warner is Warner, perhaps the best in the league. The unknown guys in the DL played over their heads. Salah was ready. And now he is probably gone.

lex24 - lex24 - 12-26-2020

Organizations matter. The Niners, with nothing to play for, play their butts off and beat a playoff hopeful team with their third string QB. The Lions (Kittens) in the same situation mail it it, giving up over 400 yards in the first half. There is a reason the Niners have 5 SB championships and the Kittens are a constant doormat.

Whether you draft 12th or 15th makes no difference. Just get it right when it’s your turn.

RE: OT Niners - BostonCard - 12-26-2020

ESPN showed the win probability at 58.9% Arizona at kickoff, if you believe those things.

BC

RE: OT Niners - oregontim - 12-27-2020

The 49ers this year showed how much good management and continuity of management matters. Lynch and Shanahan proved they can deal with adversity. Their strategy of "draft the D line, manage the rest" is paid off. Their "establish the run game" strategy paid off.

Not that they're perfect. Their big bet on JimmyG looks bad and they missed Bruckner. I have my fingers crossed on Boza, who was available to them because other teams worried about his injuries. But we should also remember so many other things that worked out for them, and that some bets lose.

I think they managed Covid and injuries really well and I'm looking forward to future seasons.

RE: OT Niners - Mick - 12-27-2020

I hope Garoppolo's gone. He's a shadow of himself. Almost completely immobile with bad knees and no ability to throw outside of over the middle.

Maybe the Niners can get Stafford, or Cousins. I doubt they draft a QB, though there will be some good ones available in the #12 - #16 slots.

lex24 - lex24 - 12-27-2020

Drafting the right QB is no easy task. Here are your first rounders since 2016.

2016. Goff(1). Wentz (2). Lynch (26). One mediocre starting QB but by no means a franchise pick; one guy that is simply lost. And a bust.

2017. Trubisky (2). Mahomes (10). Watson (12). You watch and wonder how Mahomes was not the first QB picked. And how 9 could pass on him. But would he be a superstar had the Bears selected him. Probably at some point. But not as immediate. Situations matter. In all a generational QB, an all pro and a below average starter.

2018. Mayfield (1). Darnold (3) Allen (7). Rosen (10) Jackson (32). Best for now was last, although Allen may end up the best of the bunch. Mayfield will never be a franchise QB. At best middle of the pack. Rosen a bust. Darnold the jury is out.

2019. Murray(1). Jones (6) Haskins 15). Murray will be, if is he isn’t already, a star. Haskins and Jones too early to tell. But neither have shown much.

2020. Burrows (1). Tua (5) Herbert (6). Love (26). Looks like the strongest group of the 5 years. With Love getting traded....

What is telling is AFTER round 1. Just looking at ‘16-‘18, (‘19-‘20 haven’t had enough time) I counted 20 QB’s drafted. Of those, Prescott (135) is the lone starter. Of the rest, probably the best to date is Jacoby Brissett. And I’d guess more than half are out of the league or at best on practice squads. Here’s the list: Harkenburg , Kessler, Cook, Cardale Jones, Hogan, Kizer, Webb, Beathard, Dobbs, Kaaya, Kelly, Rudolph, Lauletta, Mike White, Falk, Tanner Lee, McGough, Woodside

BTW, Beathard went in round 3 (104). Kizer and Davis Webb went ahead of him. Dobbs (135) Kaaya (215) and Kelly (253, Mr. Irrelevant) after.

RE: lex24 - CowboyIndian - 12-27-2020

(12-27-2020, 03:35 PM)lex24 Wrote: BTW, Beathard went in round 3 (104).

I'm guessing that Rose Bowl didn't help him.