Covid relief bill to pass Congress - Printable Version
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RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - OutsiderFan - 12-23-2020
So the POTUS just became weaker. He vetoed the NDAA. This means the GOP must break with the POTUS to fund the military. It's a really dumb move because the veto is gonna be overridden, which always weakens a POTUS. This will in turn make it easier for R Congress members to cast override votes on the funding and relief bill if it is vetoed.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - dabigv13 - 12-23-2020
Well, if they can. Trump can pocket veto the Covid/govt spending bill by doing nothing and waiting until this session of congress expires on Jan 3rd.
No way to override that, which would also mean a prolonged government shutdown.
Happy New Year!
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - OutsiderFan - 12-23-2020
(12-23-2020, 02:07 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: Well, if they can. Trump can pocket veto the Covid/govt spending bill by doing nothing and waiting until this session of congress expires on Jan 3rd.
No way to override that, which would also mean a prolonged government shutdown.
Happy New Year!
I really hope the Republican Party is proud of itself. What's that? They aren't, and are now beginning to realize they need a divorce from the Orange Turd because it isn't going to work? You don't say. That's only been obvious to people with common sense since I don't know, 2015.
The Law and Order POTUS letting convicted felons out of prison, trampling on the rule of law. The POTUS who "loves our troops" de-funding the military. The POTUS who steals tax payer money to enrich himself trying to shut down the government and stop aid to people in the greatest crisis of our lifetimes. The POTUS who touts vaccines developed by Operation Warp Speed, choking off funding needed to distribute them. Oh, yes, and how can I forget, a POTUS who is trying to plot a coup and overturn election results from a free and fair election.
What a legacy.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - BostonCard - 12-23-2020
(12-23-2020, 12:54 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Update/correction:
In my previous post, I said the $2,000 payment bill won't pass the House because unanimous consent will be objected to by at least one House Republican. Actually, if unanimous consent doesn't work, then it goes to roll call vote. So it will pass the House. However, there is no guarantee, in fact, I believe no chance McConnell brings it up for vote in Senate.
His caucus fought for months against higher payments. And one even blocked the $1,200 R Sen. Josh Hawley suggested already. I see McConnell taking Klobuchar's position and the only option being veto override or nothing, and nothing simply isn't an option for Congress right now.
Except, I believe that Trump could run out the clock and pocket veto the bill. On January 3, the new congress starts, and they would have to start from scratch.
https://www.vox.com/2020/12/23/22197491/trump-pocket-veto
Quote:As laid out in the Constitution, if the president does not sign a bill within 10 days of receiving it (excluding Sundays) and Congress adjourns during that time, the bill is considered vetoed. Because Congress has already adjourned by that point, it does not have the ability to override this veto.
Then there is also the fact that the bill was attached to the appropriations bill, so that if Trump doesn't sign in by Dec. 28, we will have a government shutdown, barring an extension.
BC
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - OutsiderFan - 12-23-2020
The most horrible thing about this nonsense, might be this...
The Covid relief bill includes extensions to eviction moratorium. If the bill doesn't get signed by Monday, not only will unemployment benefits stop, but the gap between the current law running out, and a new one extending the moratorium, will create a gap that will allow land lords to evict people. The worst case scenario - the POTUS letting the bill languish for 10 days before veto - would provide a 5 days for this to happen. There are many land lords who will take advantage. Will be up to states and/or cities to have their own moratoriums in place to prevent mass homelessness.
The only good news is that the 10-days from bill passage (excluding Sundays) ends on Jan 2, so it appears this Congress can override the veto in the worst case scenario situation. It seems politically untenable for Congress to adjourn until the government funding and relief bill are made law, and as it is, they are already planning to override the NDAA veto next week.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - OutsiderFan - 12-23-2020
(12-23-2020, 04:00 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The most horrible thing about this nonsense, might be this...
The Covid relief bill includes extensions to eviction moratorium. If the bill doesn't get signed by Monday, not only will unemployment benefits stop, but the gap between the current law running out, and a new one extending the moratorium, will create a gap that will allow land lords to evict people. The worst case scenario - the POTUS letting the bill languish for 10 days before veto - would provide a 5 days for this to happen. There are many land lords who will take advantage. Will be up to states and/or cities to have their own moratoriums in place to prevent mass homelessness.
The only good news is that the 10-days from bill passage (excluding Sundays) ends on Jan 2, so it appears this Congress can override the veto in the worst case scenario situation. It seems politically untenable for Congress to adjourn until the government funding and relief bill are made law, and as it is, they are already planning to override the NDAA veto next week.
Well this sucks... The government funding and relief bill isn't officially arriving to POTUS until 12/24, which means the 10 day clock will now run out, not on Jan. 2, but Jan. 4, after this Congress has ended. I thought the clock was starting 12/23 since it passed on 12/22, and the 1oth day would be Jan 3. So another dumb ass move by McConnell to delay passage of the bill.
We now have a very real possibility that there is a government shutdown and no Covid relief until the next Congress is seated, maybe even after Biden is sworn in. Because how is a new Congress going to know what the priorities are? Highly unlikely the next Congress will pay much mind to what the outgoing administration who torpedoed its own spending bill wants. Moreover why would lame duck POTUS sign a bill to open the government and get relief going if he can then wait another 10 days to stall it? Even if Congress had a new bill ready for signing on Jan. 6, that would still put the pocket veto date on Jan 18, just two days before Biden takes over. Will Congress have to negotiate with the Biden transition team?
Can you say Catastraf*ck? The only way disaster can be avoided is if the POTUS vetoes the government funding and Covid relief bill before Jan.3, so it can be overridden. Seems highly unlikely that will happen, but Congress can't adjourn on the off chance it does. Sigh.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - Goose - 12-24-2020
(12-23-2020, 11:55 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The only way disaster can be avoided is if the POTUS vetoes the government funding and Covid relief bill before Jan.3, so it can be overridden. Seems highly unlikely that will happen, but Congress can't adjourn on the off chance it does. Sigh.Maybe, just maybe, the current POTUS will see a pocket veto as weak and will actually veto the bill. In either case, it once again shows just how much this president makes it about himself. If he had been pushing for the 2K all along it MIGHT make sense to veto the bill in order to force the congress to give him what he wants. However, he pulled this out at the last minute after the Republicans in the Senate had already passed something. Right now, there is no way the Senate is going to pass a 2K per person stimulus. Any sane president would sign the budget and then fight for a "plus-up" later.
Hopefully, if Trump does pocket veto this bill, Biden and the Congress will just pass the existing bill on day 1 and work out any desired amendments later. Probably 95% of the existing budget is not controversial in any case.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - OutsiderFan - 12-24-2020
Makes one wonder why the hell we pay taxes. If our elected "leaders" can't even agree to spend OUR money to help us, what, exactly is the point?
It's simply breathtaking that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has decided the one time he's going to break with the POTUS is to stop Americans from getting a lifeline in a time of crisis. He doesn't even have the leadership ability to stand up for and demand the POTUS sign or veto the bill passed by Congress with overwhelming majorities in both houses. Instead, he trots out this nonsense about cutting foreign aid - asked for by White House negotiators in budget appropriation that has nothing to do with Covid relief bill - while not even suggesting he wants the money earmarked as foreign aid going to Americans in the form of higher payments, if it is reduced.
I am not personally in jeopardy if the punch in the nuts is delivered in a few days, but I genuinely care for the well-being of my fellow Americans and the society functions on the backs of the most vulnerable among us. It saddens and infuriates me that what I thought was a country that cares about its people, is being lorded over by those who can't even agree on how to spend money in a once in a lifetime crisis. Nobody is being asked to give up anything - which is where the real challenge of getting agreements done is - and they still can't unite to help people who desperately need it.
There is now one option only: The entire Congress must demand the POTUS sign or veto the budget and relief bill so it is signed into law or can be overridden. Pelosi and Schumer then need to put the POTUS on blast and prove he wants $2,000 payments to Americans by telling GOP Congress members to vote on a separate supplemental bill to increase payments by $1,400 by Jan. 3.
And we, as citizens, must light up the phones of our elected representatives and tell them we want the budget and Covid relief bill passed by Congress made into law. It's called the "Consolidated Appropriations Act (Including Coronavirus Stimulus & Relief)" which in and of itself is stupid. It needed to have an easier to say and less convoluted name!
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - dabigv13 - 12-24-2020
Who knows whats going to happen, but Trump doesn't give a shit about how much money goes to people. He just wants to burn things down.
I also imagine he thinks his chances of somehow mantaining power would go up in the chaos associated with a government shut down. Throw in a military engagement with Iran...
lex24 - lex24 - 12-24-2020
He will sign a version of it. Perhaps with a bit extra - say $1000 - for relief. Then he’s a hero. He wants his name on those checks.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - dabigv13 - 12-24-2020
Ok, but by what mechanism? The GOP congress isn't going to go along with simply bumping the checks up. They would request some reduction elsewhere in the bill. But there is not going to be any renegotiation on that, time is up on this congress.
It's 600 or nothing, Trump's braying about 2000 is just sound and fury. If he actually gave a shit he would have included this demand earlier in the negotiation. Mnuchin could have told Mitch this was a necessity. Now, who will the American people blame when this goes to shit? Probably just the "dysfunctional government" and not the person responsible, DJT.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - Goose - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 11:53 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: Ok, but by what mechanism? The GOP congress isn't going to go along with simply bumping the checks up. They would request some reduction elsewhere in the bill. But there is not going to be any renegotiation on that, time is up on this congress.You are totally correct. Trumps action is just BS. Let's just hope he actually delivers a real veto and doesn't just let the clock run out.
It's 600 or nothing, Trump's braying about 2000 is just sound and fury. If he actually gave a shit he would have included this demand earlier in the negotiation. Mnuchin could have told Mitch this was a necessity. Now, who will the American people blame when this goes to shit? Probably just the "dysfunctional government" and not the person responsible, DJT.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - BostonCard - 12-24-2020
House Republicans objected to the unanimous consent, so they'll have to record a voice vote.
BC
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - Goose - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 11:33 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: There is now one option only: The entire Congress must demand the POTUS sign or veto the budget and relief bill so it is signed into law or can be overridden. Pelosi and Schumer then need to put the POTUS on blast and prove he wants $2,000 payments to Americans by telling GOP Congress members to vote on a separate supplemental bill to increase payments by $1,400 by Jan. 3.Unfortunately, you are incorrect. There isn't any such option at all. Congress can say what they wish. Trump can "pocket veto" this bill and no force on earth can gainsay that action, save an impeachment. Probably not enough time to do that even if there were enough votes in the Senate.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - OutsiderFan - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 02:18 PM)Goose Wrote:(12-24-2020, 11:33 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: There is now one option only: The entire Congress must demand the POTUS sign or veto the budget and relief bill so it is signed into law or can be overridden. Pelosi and Schumer then need to put the POTUS on blast and prove he wants $2,000 payments to Americans by telling GOP Congress members to vote on a separate supplemental bill to increase payments by $1,400 by Jan. 3.Unfortunately, you are incorrect. There isn't any such option at all. Congress can say what they wish. Trump can "pocket veto" this bill and no force on earth can gainsay that action, save an impeachment. Probably not enough time to do that even if there were enough votes in the Senate.
What do you mean? Everyone in Congress can make demands for the bill that passed Congress by a 88% margin to be signed by POTUS or vetoed. Doesn't mean he has to sign it, or proactively veto, but they can make the demand. By the same token, Dems in Congress can also demand POTUS gets behind a separate bill for a $1,400 supplemental payment and pressure Republicans to vote for it.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - Griffins78 - 12-24-2020
Correct me if I'm wrong; but, Trump left DC for Florida without signing or vetoing the so called, COVID relief bill. Therefore, there is no veto to override.
Pelosi tried to get a unanimous consent to increase the amount to $2K but the Republican's in the House rejected it. So now, she can get an amendment passed on Monday and send it to the Senate. Then we're stuck until Trump decides to sign or veto.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - OutsiderFan - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 03:03 PM)Griffins78 Wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong; but, Trump left DC for Florida without signing or vetoing the so called, COVID relief bill. Therefore, there is no veto to override.
Pelosi tried to get a unanimous consent to increase the amount to $2K but the Republican's in the House rejected it. So now, she can get an amendment passed on Monday and send it to the Senate. Then we're stuck until Trump decides to sign or veto.
Correct. My hope is Congress pushes for a signature or a veto. Just really hard for me to wrap my head around Congress passing a bill with 88% support, and not uniting to try getting it made into law.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - Farm93 - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 03:24 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:Congress has a number of GOP representatives, and they are in a bit of a bind.(12-24-2020, 03:03 PM)Griffins78 Wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong; but, Trump left DC for Florida without signing or vetoing the so called, COVID relief bill. Therefore, there is no veto to override.
Pelosi tried to get a unanimous consent to increase the amount to $2K but the Republican's in the House rejected it. So now, she can get an amendment passed on Monday and send it to the Senate. Then we're stuck until Trump decides to sign or veto.
Correct. My hope is Congress pushes for a signature or a veto. Just really hard for me to wrap my head around Congress passing a bill with 88% support, and not uniting to try getting it made into law.
Their support is linked to their loyalty and obedience to Trump. That's not how it started, but that's the situation now. If Trump does not like them as individuals or as a collective group then he can bury them or make them look weak and have his followers vote for someone else in the primary. I am not sure they are willing to step up and do the non-Trump thing because of Trump's popularity and Trump's newly created superPAC.
For many the best political play to keep in office might be to follow the irrational one at least for another 4-8 weeks. A few families without housing is a small price to pay, apparently. As this same political crew went 7+ months advocating a mask-free lifestyle despite the physical health impact to their constituents, it is not hard to see them doing things for ~5-7 weeks that negatively impact the financial health of their constituents.
Then in 4 weeks Biden comes to town and they can resist anything he tries while simultaneously claiming they never supported whatever Biden proposes. That anti-Biden stance on COVID policies will be a harder place to reside if they were trying to get similar policies and payments out when Trump was in office in late 2020.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - Goose - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 03:24 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:Trump is quite aware of the margin by which the bill passed. He apparently doesn't care. If he wants to block it, he can. Nothing anybody can do.(12-24-2020, 03:03 PM)Griffins78 Wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong; but, Trump left DC for Florida without signing or vetoing the so called, COVID relief bill. Therefore, there is no veto to override.
Pelosi tried to get a unanimous consent to increase the amount to $2K but the Republican's in the House rejected it. So now, she can get an amendment passed on Monday and send it to the Senate. Then we're stuck until Trump decides to sign or veto.
Correct. My hope is Congress pushes for a signature or a veto. Just really hard for me to wrap my head around Congress passing a bill with 88% support, and not uniting to try getting it made into law.
What this actually shows is how monumentally stupid that both the House and the Senate leadership have been. Anybody who could count knew that the Congress needed to pass this bill BEFORE it would be at risk of a "pocket veto". This isn't a "new fact". I can remember back in the 60's filibusters whose sole purpose was to delay the inevitable passage of a bill so that the POTUS could simply ignore it and make Congress start over. Usually these were things the POTUS could veto, but didn't want to for political reasons. The budgets had to be passed early to make sure that couldn't happen. This is part of elementary political strategy, and nobody "got it". One might argue that there was no apparent reason to worry about what this POTUS might do, but anybody who argues that has been under a rock for four years.
RE: Covid relief bill to pass Congress - dabigv13 - 12-24-2020
Certainly dumb by Pelosi. Not sure Mitch would mind if the stimulus gets jammed up completely though, as long as this doesn't blow back on him in Georgia. He'll take a recession. His goal is to turn Biden into Jimmy Carter.