Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - Printable Version

Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 (/thread-21541.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4

RE: Men's BB: STAN vs CO (ON NOW ESPN2) - Blue Hawk (Mizzou) Card - 02-11-2021

(02-11-2021, 06:29 PM)burger Wrote: Got to within 6 and then an 8-0 Colorado run.

We're out of position on almost every defensive play. Most of the 3s they're hitting are basically wide open.

You might be right about three point defense, but it does not look like defense is our primary problem to me, as we seem to be giving up a lot of possessions were our defense is tight, at least inside, for a long time, then they find the open three-point shooter who cans it. They are hitting their shots, even when we have pretty good (in my eyes) defense. And we are missing our good shots. If we were hitting a decent percentage of our good shots, we would still be in this game.

Tonight, Colorado is just a lot better. The game is about making the ball go through the hoop. They are doing that a lot better than we are.

RE: Men's BB: STAN vs CO (ON NOW ESPN2) - Brickcity - 02-11-2021

(02-11-2021, 06:35 PM)Blue Hawk (Mizzou) Card Wrote:
(02-11-2021, 06:29 PM)burger Wrote: Got to within 6 and then an 8-0 Colorado run.

We're out of position on almost every defensive play. Most of the 3s they're hitting are basically wide open.

You might be right about three point defense, but it does not look like defense is our primary problem to me, as we seem to be giving up a lot of possessions were our defense is tight, at least inside, for a long time, then they find the open three-point shooter who cans it. They are hitting their shots, even when we have pretty good (in my eyes) defense. And we are missing our good shots. If we were hitting a decent percentage of our good shots, we would still be in this game.

Tonight, Colorado is just a lot better. The game is about making the ball go through the hoop. They are doing that a lot better than we are.

Nailed it, Blue Hawk.

RE: Men's BB: STAN vs CO (ON NOW ESPN2) - martyup - 02-11-2021

That last shot by Williams pretty much sums up the game. We couldn't put it in the basket.

We simply got outplayed tonight. Forget it. Move on. Next up.

RE: Men's BB: STAN vs CO (ON NOW ESPN2) - Phogge - 02-11-2021

Either win out or get to the championship game.

RE: Men's BB: STAN vs CO (ON NOW ESPN2) - BostonCard - 02-11-2021

Sigh. Unfortunately that sums up much of the last decade of Stanford basketball. "We simply got outplayed" by too many good but not great teams. Until we start being the ones outplaying rather than the ones outplayed, I have a hard time seeing how we get back to the tournament.

BC

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - pefloresjr - 02-11-2021

You can't win if you can't hit your shots. It's that simple. They hit theirs and we didn't. Really disappointing but I think they are just better than us. I do wonder whether we are taking the best advantage of our talent at times. It seems Williams is often relegated to passively waiting in the corner for a possible 3 point shot and we are not working to get him better chances to get good looks. I know that his shooting percentage hasn't been where we hoped it would be but I think we could work to create better chances for him when we can't get it inside to da Silva. I am kind of grasping for straws here because I am really frustrated with this team and season right now. I keep feeling like we are making progress but sometimes it feels like we keep taking two steps back and one step forward rather than the other way around. I will finish my wine and go to bed. On to the next game when hope springs anew.

Cheers,
Pete F.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - JohnR34231 - 02-12-2021

(02-11-2021, 10:35 PM)pefloresjr Wrote: You can't win if you can't hit your shots. It's that simple. They hit theirs and we didn't. Really disappointing but I think they are just better than us. I do wonder whether we are taking the best advantage of our talent at times. It seems Williams is often relegated to passively waiting in the corner for a possible 3 point shot and we are not working to get him better chances to get good looks. I know that his shooting percentage hasn't been where we hoped it would be but I think we could work to create better chances for him when we can't get it inside to da Silva. I am kind of grasping for straws here because I am really frustrated with this team and season right now. I keep feeling like we are making progress but sometimes it feels like we keep taking two steps back and one step forward rather than the other way around. I will finish my wine and go to bed. On to the next game when hope springs anew.

Cheers,
Pete F.

This seems to me typical of the past few seasons. We play well at times and not so well at others. We end up with a mediocre record and miss out on the Big Dance. We'll see how this season turns out but it is beginning to look like deja vu all over again.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - BostonCard - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 05:26 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote: This seems to me typical of the past few seasons. We play well at times and not so well at others. We end up with a mediocre record and miss out on the Big Dance. We'll see how this season turns out but it is beginning to look like deja vu all over again.

Yeah, sadly we've seen this story before. I think Haase has been very good at recruiting talent, but (on the whole) not good at converting talent into wins. Williams is probably the best example of this. For a mega-whale, and in (what I assume will be his only year here) his contribution will have been comparable to a three star player (solid starter, but not a star).

BC

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - AlbanyCardinal - 02-12-2021

I'm of a few different minds on this. Last season, I was very critical of Haase's performance and felt there was no good excuse for the team's mid- and late-season decline. It felt inexcusable to me that that squad, which started off so well and remained healthy through the season, wasn't on its way to the Big Dance -- and nobody can convince me they would have gotten in after that pathetic loss to cal in the first round of the P12 conference tourney.

This season feels quite different to me. The lineup has had to change from week to week, several team captains have been out for months now, and the frosh phenom, who has loads of talent and potential but is very inconsistent, disappeared for weeks at the most crucial part of the season. Did anyone really think he was going to hit the ground running in his first game back, after not training/practicing with the team for weeks?

A win against Colorado would have been brobdingnagian, but that would have been a minor miracle yesterday. Stanford, for one, doesn't match up well against them. Then compare CU's talent + rotation, which they've been able to rely on week in, week out, to Stanford's at the moment. I'm frankly amazed the team has pulled off as many wins as it did in the new year.

If Stanford can get some of these guys back and get them comfy again in the rotation, just maybe they can make a run in the conference tourney. Otherwise, this fan who's been very hot-cold on Haase will absolutely give the coaching staff and players a mulligan on this strange season.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - Goose - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 10:43 AM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: This season feels quite different to me. The lineup has had to change from week to week, several team captains have been out for months now, and the frosh phenom, who has loads of talent and potential but is very inconsistent, disappeared for weeks at the most crucial part of the season. Did anyone really think he was going to hit the ground running in his first game back, after not training/practicing with the team for weeks?

I agree with your first point. We have had many challenges to overcome and on the whole have met them very well. On the second point, I frankly have some doubts about the "frosh phenom". When you have a player with that much "talent and potential" one expects raw talent to take over where preparation and practice aren't adequate. It may be he isn't being used properly, but it also may be he just hasn't figured out yet how to play at the college level. He is either going to need more time in college to figure it out or go pro. One wonders if this year would make the NBA wonder if he will figure it out at their level either.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - BobK - 02-12-2021

Williams will sign for $4M play D league then NBA. Potential

We don't use schemes for players much. Threes for Jones nah let him work for them.

That said Colorado had much better players than Stanford.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - BostonCard - 02-12-2021

Yes, there is always an excuse. In his fifth season at Stanford, Haase has a sub-500 conference record, no NCAA tournament appearances, and one NIT second round (probably would have been two after last year, and he will probably get a third this year).

At some point, you have to win and make the tournament.

His record five years in is just about indistinguishable from Dawkins' (if we win the NIT, it will be uncanny).

BC

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - AlbanyCardinal - 02-12-2021

No, there's not always an excuse. What was the excuse last season? But you've not been living on this planet if you think there's none this season.

Haase will obviously have to put it all together in the coming seasons or else even Stanford will let him go. I can't be sure he'll pull it off, obviously, but I'd put my money on him over Dawkins every day, week, and month of the year.

(02-12-2021, 12:39 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Yes, there is always an excuse. In his fifth season at Stanford, Haase has a sub-500 conference record, no NCAA tournament appearances, and one NIT second round (probably would have been two after last year, and he will probably get a third this year).

At some point, you have to win and make the tournament.

His record five years in is just about indistinguishable from Dawkins' (if we win the NIT, it will be uncanny).

BC

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - Brickcity - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 01:17 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: No, there's not always an excuse. What was the excuse last season? But you've not been living on this planet if you think there's none this season.

Haase will obviously have to put it all together in the coming seasons or else even Stanford will let him go. I can't be sure he'll pull it off, obviously, but I'd put my money on him over Dawkins every day, week, and month of the year.

(02-12-2021, 12:39 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Yes, there is always an excuse. In his fifth season at Stanford, Haase has a sub-500 conference record, no NCAA tournament appearances, and one NIT second round (probably would have been two after last year, and he will probably get a third this year).

At some point, you have to win and make the tournament.

His record five years in is just about indistinguishable from Dawkins' (if we win the NIT, it will be uncanny).

BC

To be clear, Haase's team has looked good on numerous occasions this year. Yesterday was obviously not one of them. Dawkins teams almost never looked good...except in the NIT.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - BostonCard - 02-12-2021

The excuse last year was COVID-19 cancelled the season.

Yes, there are good reasons that this team has struggled, since three starters were out.

But, that would carry a lot more weight if Haase had an NCAA appearance or two under his belt before this season. Then you point to this season and say it is a blip. But now we have a pattern of struggling in the face of adversity.

BC

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - winflop - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 05:20 PM)BostonCard Wrote: The excuse last year was COVID-19 cancelled the season.

Yes, there are good reasons that this team has struggled, since three starters were out.

But, that would carry a lot more weight if Haase had an NCAA appearance or two under his belt before this season. Then you point to this season and say it is a blip. But now we have a pattern of struggling in the face of adversity.

BC

Gonna wait until the end of the season, but it's increasingly looking like many prior seasons under both Haase and Dawkins in that the team just isn't good enough to make the dance.

Sadly, I don't see any way that Muir is going to move on from Haase regardless of this season's results. He will come up with plenty of reasons not to, but continues to ignore the bottom line.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - AlbanyCardinal - 02-12-2021

I honestly can't see how anybody could equate Dawkins's program with Haase's. Apples and oranges to me, irrespective of records and tournaments. Dawkins inherited a Sweet Sixteen program. What did Haase inherit? There are other factors, such as the transfer portal, which makes Stanford's job harder overall, especially in hoops, but mainly I wonder if we've all seen the same games these past 12 years or so.

I've been plenty disappointed with Haase's program, especially after '18-'19 and the second half of '19-'20. For me, there's little to no excuse for last season's precipitous fall, b/c we all know Stanford wouldn't have made the tourney without Covid. I see patterns that I don't like, and I'm not as confident as I once was that Haase will fully right the ship on the Farm. But I know this much: firing Haase after this season makes zero sense and would set the program back so far.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - BobK - 02-12-2021

Haase is not going to be fired. The buyout is way to much to even consider
But we aren’t playing better than the Dawkins years.
Dawkins took over a team than had just lost the Lopez twins.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - old spanish trail - 02-12-2021

Someone above mentioned we don't have schemes. Let Jones work for his shot, etc. This has been my major frustration with Haase's teams. I think Jones is close to 50% on 3's when he is set but we run no screens or motions to get him there. Same with Williams. He is deadly on the 10 ft jumper, but he has to create that shot himself, etc. We are good at inbound plays; otherwise, we suck.

Colo had open threes because Davis is out and Wills can only play minutes at a time. Our other guards can't cover mobile perimeter shooters. They play hard but that isn't enuf. Over the season, Williams has guarded perimeter shooters much better than our other frosh. I hope he is more available this week, and I hope Haase and Davis can reach a meeting of the minds. We will win more games if they do.

Again, re Colo, we are better than the score. Agree that we didn't make a whole bunch of makeable shots...and they did. They also apparently have more 3 point shooters than we do.

RE: Men's BB: STAN 51 CO 69 - AlbanyCardinal - 02-13-2021

Obviously he won't get canned this spring, but I was responding to a poster who was lamenting that Muir wouldn't fire Haase at the end of this season.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Haase teams v. Dawkins teams. Some point to the fact that Dawkins took us to the Sweet Sixteen. I'll give him some cred for that, but I'll take away even more from him for not continuing the success in the years after. That's even more inexcusable to me than someone like Haase inheriting a sinking ship and struggling to get his team to the tourney. Dawkins built nothing while he was here.

I can see that it's completely a matter of opinion, and I'll respect our differences in perspective. I'm sure we all agree in hoping that Haase can put it all together in the next year.

(02-12-2021, 09:08 PM)BobK Wrote: Haase is not going to be fired. The buyout is way to much to even consider
But we aren’t playing better than the Dawkins years.
Dawkins took over a team than had just lost the Lopez twins.