Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Printable Version
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RE: Niners give away the future - Phogge - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 06:18 PM)Goose Wrote: This trade is undoubtedly a big risk. Sometimes you have to take a risk and go for it, but I just don't see this team as good enough in the near term to ensure they can take advantage of a "great" QB. The offense they run doesn't require that. It requires consistency and accuracy with the ability to throw deep when it is there. Not sure that is what you get in a 1st round draft pick who wants to be "the man". Draft picks, particularly QBs, often don't work out as expected.
Yep. Just look out how the #3 pick out of Stanford has done.
RE: Niners give away the future - 82lsju - 03-26-2021
and Miami sent the 12th pick in this year’s draft and a 2022 first-rounder, both acquired from San Francisco, to Philadelphia for the sixth pick.
RE: Niners give away the future - lex24 - 03-27-2021
(03-26-2021, 06:18 PM)Goose Wrote: This trade is undoubtedly a big risk. Sometimes you have to take a risk and go for it, but I just don't see this team as good enough in the near term to ensure they can take advantage of a "great" QB. The offense they run doesn't require that. It requires consistency and accuracy with the ability to throw deep when it is there. Not sure that is what you get in a 1st round draft pick who wants to be "the man". Draft picks, particularly QBs, often don't work out as expected.
The model is KC. With Smith, they were a very good team. With Mahomes they are a great team. That is the difference a great QB brings. Garrapalo has no chance to be great. His ceiling is limited. But the Niners can be very good next year with him running the show. While Trey Lance gets ready to step in in 22.
Or if you want to think crazy - the Niners trade Garrapalo and a late round pick to the Jets to switch spots. Jets then trade Darnold and their pick at 23 to Carolina for their pick at 8. Carolina is desperate for a QB. All but Jones will be gone by the time they pick at 8. Darnold has a higher ceiling then Garrapalo and maybe higher than Jones. And Carolina can perhaps still grab Jones at 23.
Niners take Wilson. Jets take Fields or Lance. Then pick up Pitts at 8. (If he’s still around).
(03-26-2021, 06:44 PM)Phogge Wrote:(03-26-2021, 06:18 PM)Goose Wrote: This trade is undoubtedly a big risk. Sometimes you have to take a risk and go for it, but I just don't see this team as good enough in the near term to ensure they can take advantage of a "great" QB. The offense they run doesn't require that. It requires consistency and accuracy with the ability to throw deep when it is there. Not sure that is what you get in a 1st round draft pick who wants to be "the man". Draft picks, particularly QBs, often don't work out as expected.
Yep. Just look out how the #3 pick out of Stanford has done.
They should have taken the No 8 pick out of Stanford. Well, actually, they should have taken Mahomes. But 9 teams whiffed on him.
RE: Niners give away the future - jonnyss - 03-27-2021
just watched the video of mac jones's pro day. imo davis mills looked more accurate.
link
RE: Niners give away the future - PVTree - 03-27-2021
Whoever ends up drafting Mills will be getting a terrific player and future starter (unless he gets injured again).
RE: Niners give away the future - Goose - 03-27-2021
(03-27-2021, 09:41 AM)PVTree Wrote: Whoever ends up drafting Mills will be getting a terrific player and future starter (unless he gets injured again).
I expect you are correct. It may be an "advantage" to not be a 1st round pick. He has a chance to go to a team that is not horrible and when he plays he will not be behind a line that can't block anybody. The injury situation is a big factor. It may be that he has done so much rehab and is so aware of his vulnerability that he has got beyond it, but nobody really knows yet. I think we all hope he has.
RE: Niners give away the future - OutsiderFan - 03-27-2021
First of all, Lynch isn't calling the shots. Shanahan is.
Second, the Niners didn't "give away their future." They took a calculated risk to improve the team in the medium and long term.
- Garoppolo is in the final year of his contract in 2021.
- That means his $25M salary can come off the books.
- Having a starting QB on a rookie deal can allow a top-end free agent signing each year there is no #1 pick.
If the QB they take comes in and even replicates Jimmy G production, the team will be in better shape. And if the QB they bring in is more productive than Jimmy G, the team will be in better shape x2. It is for the above reasons I feel like the Niners are getting a shot at an elite QB for almost nothing. Of course you always want your first round pick, but everything costs something. Moreover, Fred Warner was a 3rd and Georg Kittle was a 5th.
The Niners can also trade players for future draft capital.
The real Jedi move would be to get Garoppolo to tear up his current deal, agree to a two-year deal, and if he plays well while your #3 pick QB is developing, trade him in the off season knowing the #3 pick will be ready to go in 2022.
I LOVE this trade for the Niners and don't think it costs too much at all.
RE: Niners give away the future - Phogge - 03-27-2021
Totally disagree with OF but that's nothing new.
They lose their chance to get a long term starting corner. They lose a couple of future #1's. They may have a set roster now but they have a bunch of key guys on one year deals.
And what happens if Verett and Moseley go down forcing a Brian Allen type to start?
Too many ifs to risk on another #3 pick bust.
RE: Niners give away the future - lex24 - 03-27-2021
(03-27-2021, 10:41 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: First of all, Lynch isn't calling the shots. Shanahan is.
Second, the Niners didn't "give away their future." They took a calculated risk to improve the team in the medium and long term.
- Garoppolo is in the final year of his contract in 2021.
- That means his $25M salary can come off the books.
- Having a starting QB on a rookie deal can allow a top-end free agent signing each year there is no #1 pick.
If the QB they take comes in and even replicates Jimmy G production, the team will be in better shape. And if the QB they bring in is more productive than Jimmy G, the team will be in better shape x2. It is for the above reasons I feel like the Niners are getting a shot at an elite QB for almost nothing. Of course you always want your first round pick, but everything costs something. Moreover, Fred Warner was a 3rd and Georg Kittle was a 5th.
The Niners can also trade players for future draft capital.
The real Jedi move would be to get Garoppolo to tear up his current deal, agree to a two-year deal, and if he plays well while your #3 pick QB is developing, trade him in the off season knowing the #3 pick will be ready to go in 2022.
I LOVE this trade for the Niners and don't think it costs too much at all.
And you know Shanahan is calling the shots, how? Perhaps from what you learned working with Walsh. You never did answer my question of what your position was when you were learning from Walsh.
(03-27-2021, 11:32 AM)Phogge Wrote: Totally disagree with OF but that's nothing new.
They lose their chance to get a long term starting corner. They lose a couple of future #1's. They may have a set roster now but they have a bunch of key guys on one year deals.
And what happens if Verett and Moseley go down forcing a Brian Allen type to start?
Too many ifs to risk on another #3 pick bust.
Future is now Phogge. Team is string at essentially every position group. They could use WR depth and corner depth. They can find that.
I also don’t think they are done trading.
(03-27-2021, 09:41 AM)PVTree Wrote: Whoever ends up drafting Mills will be getting a terrific player and future starter (unless he gets injured again).
Agree completely.
RE: Niners give away the future - OutsiderFan - 03-27-2021
Lex,
I read "Finding the Winning Edge," from cover to cover. It this acknowledged to be the preeminent book of its kind.
Shanahan hired Lynch. Not the other way around. Shanahan has final say on draft and roster.
RE: Niners give away the future - lex24 - 03-27-2021
(03-27-2021, 12:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Lex,
I read "Finding the Winning Edge," from cover to cover. It this acknowledged to be the preeminent book of its kind.
Shanahan hired Lynch. Not the other way around. Shanahan has final say on draft and roster.
Ah you read a book. And you have no idea who “calls the shots”.
RE: Niners give away the future - OutsiderFan - 03-27-2021
(03-27-2021, 12:58 PM)lex24 Wrote:(03-27-2021, 12:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Lex,
I read "Finding the Winning Edge," from cover to cover. It this acknowledged to be the preeminent book of its kind.
Shanahan hired Lynch. Not the other way around. Shanahan has final say on draft and roster.
Ah you read a book. And you have no idea who “calls the shots”.
I trust Tim Kawakami to know how the Niners operate. I'm repeating his reporting.
lex24 - lex24 - 03-27-2021
(03-27-2021, 01:05 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(03-27-2021, 12:58 PM)lex24 Wrote:(03-27-2021, 12:46 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Lex,
I read "Finding the Winning Edge," from cover to cover. It this acknowledged to be the preeminent book of its kind.
Shanahan hired Lynch. Not the other way around. Shanahan has final say on draft and roster.
Ah you read a book. And you have no idea who “calls the shots”.
I trust Tim Kawakami to know how the Niners operate. I'm repeating his reporting.
Well then, you should have given attribution along with the statement. Kawakami at least has some insight based upon who he talks to Etc.
RE: Niners give away the future - Phogge - 03-27-2021
Disagree with you too Lex. Big risk. And if this is a one shot deal they better find another WR. And you don't just find competent corners during the season. Did you watch the corners last season?
RE: Niners give away the future - Giants - 03-27-2021
(03-27-2021, 10:41 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: First of all, Lynch isn't calling the shots. Shanahan is.
Second, the Niners didn't "give away their future." They took a calculated risk to improve the team in the medium and long term.
- Garoppolo is in the final year of his contract in 2021.
- That means his $25M salary can come off the books.
- Having a starting QB on a rookie deal can allow a top-end free agent signing each year there is no #1 pick.
If the QB they take comes in and even replicates Jimmy G production, the team will be in better shape. And if the QB they bring in is more productive than Jimmy G, the team will be in better shape x2. It is for the above reasons I feel like the Niners are getting a shot at an elite QB for almost nothing. Of course you always want your first round pick, but everything costs something. Moreover, Fred Warner was a 3rd and Georg Kittle was a 5th.
The Niners can also trade players for future draft capital.
The real Jedi move would be to get Garoppolo to tear up his current deal, agree to a two-year deal, and if he plays well while your #3 pick QB is developing, trade him in the off season knowing the #3 pick will be ready to go in 2022.
I LOVE this trade for the Niners and don't think it costs too much at all.
Garrapolo is signed through 2022. His dead money hit after the ‘21 season would be $1.4 million.
RE: Niners give away the future - OutsiderFan - 03-27-2021
(03-27-2021, 07:44 PM)Giants Wrote:(03-27-2021, 10:41 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: First of all, Lynch isn't calling the shots. Shanahan is.
Second, the Niners didn't "give away their future." They took a calculated risk to improve the team in the medium and long term.
- Garoppolo is in the final year of his contract in 2021.
- That means his $25M salary can come off the books.
- Having a starting QB on a rookie deal can allow a top-end free agent signing each year there is no #1 pick.
If the QB they take comes in and even replicates Jimmy G production, the team will be in better shape. And if the QB they bring in is more productive than Jimmy G, the team will be in better shape x2. It is for the above reasons I feel like the Niners are getting a shot at an elite QB for almost nothing. Of course you always want your first round pick, but everything costs something. Moreover, Fred Warner was a 3rd and Georg Kittle was a 5th.
The Niners can also trade players for future draft capital.
The real Jedi move would be to get Garoppolo to tear up his current deal, agree to a two-year deal, and if he plays well while your #3 pick QB is developing, trade him in the off season knowing the #3 pick will be ready to go in 2022.
I LOVE this trade for the Niners and don't think it costs too much at all.
Garrapolo is signed through 2022. His dead money hit after the ‘21 season would be $1.4 million.
Yes. I didn't change my post because a $1.4M hit is nothing for an NFL team to jettison someone so they don't have to pay them $25M. I should have said "he can be in the last year of his deal."
RE: Niners give away the future - Mick - 03-29-2021
(03-26-2021, 06:44 PM)Phogge Wrote:(03-26-2021, 06:18 PM)Goose Wrote: This trade is undoubtedly a big risk. Sometimes you have to take a risk and go for it, but I just don't see this team as good enough in the near term to ensure they can take advantage of a "great" QB. The offense they run doesn't require that. It requires consistency and accuracy with the ability to throw deep when it is there. Not sure that is what you get in a 1st round draft pick who wants to be "the man". Draft picks, particularly QBs, often don't work out as expected.
Yep. Just look out how the #3 pick out of Stanford has done.
Agreed. Sometimes you get John Brodie. Sometimes you get Solomon Chase.
Bobb, you’re right. I think a team needs a transformative quarterback to win a Super Bowl. I think Garoppolo was intended to be that quarterback, and if you look back at his 2017-2019 performance, he had a lot of capabilities that he doesn’t currently have; e.g., mobility – thanks to the ACL tear. Watch old video, he was a very good quarterback. At his finest, not a top five quarterback, but a top ten quarterback.
Four of the top five quarterbacks this year were in conference championship games. The 49ers need that. They thought they could get one on the cheap with Stafford – another Top Ten/Not Top Five QB – who cost the Rams two first round picks, a third round pick and Jared Goff. Supposedly the asking price for Watson was the three first round picks, the third round pick and Nick Bosa or Fred Warner. Moving up in the draft means you give up the picks, but you get to keep Bosa and Warner.
OF, you’re right, I love this trade. They needed to do it. I think Garoppolo will be ineffective. And candidly...I think the 49ers have been really hit or miss in the draft, but I think they've done well with free agents. Giving up draft picks doesn't cause me too much angst.
Donkey, you’re right. I suspect that Lynch and Shanahan must think they’ll be drafting in the #25 or worse slot for the next few years, and if they have a transformative QB, that’s probably the case.
BTW, Simms thinks the 49ers will take Mac Jones. I don’t see it. I hope I don’t see it. He doesn’t strike me as being a transformative QB. And I agree with jonnyss…I think Mac Jones looks highly overrated, and not nearly as good as Davis Mills.
I slightly disagree with Goose – I think the Niners when healthy have all the parts to be a Super Bowl team. When they are healthy.
And I heard another rumor that Andrew Luck might come out of retirement. For a year.
RE: Niners give away the future - Phogge - 03-29-2021
Here's what's going to happen. Garapolo goes down in Week 3, Lance or Jones or Fields comes in and blasts the next two foes. Niners nation goes batshit crazy and in his third game the new guy takes off like Robert Griffen and tears his ACL, MCL and ruptures his spleen. He's never the same so in the 2022 off season the Niners pony up for a free agent and draft Garbers from Cal in round 4. Of course the free agent gets hurt and the franchise is in the hands of a Weenie.
Mortal lock.
RE: Niners give away the future - BostonCard - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 02:50 PM)Phogge Wrote: Here's what's going to happen. Garapolo goes down in Week 3, Lance or Jones or Fields comes in and blasts the next two foes. Niners nation goes batshit crazy and in his third game the new guy takes off like Robert Griffen and tears his ACL, MCL and ruptures his spleen. He's never the same so in the 2022 off season the Niners pony up for a free agent and draft Garbers from Cal in round 4. Of course the free agent gets hurt and the franchise is in the hands of a Weenie.
Mortal lock.
LOL. You should write horror flicks.
BC
RE: Niners give away the future - cardcrimson - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 12:43 PM)Mick Wrote: BTW, Simms thinks the 49ers will take Mac Jones. I don’t see it. I hope I don’t see it. He doesn’t strike me as being a transformative QB. And I agree with jonnyss…I think Mac Jones looks highly overrated, and not nearly as good as Davis Mills.
And I heard another rumor that Andrew Luck might come out of retirement. For a year.
You've heard the rumor for a year?
As for Mac Jones, the Alabama fan base didn't want him to start at the beginning of the year. They wanted the freshman. Jones won the job. The guy saw the field well, can throw short, middle, and long, hit his receivers in stride, and didn't make mistakes (1 interception per 100 attempts). Sure he had a great surrounding cast, and I think he made them look even better.