WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year

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RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - M T - 04-02-2021

If you didn't notice, Brink comes out to 5.83 fouls per 40 minutes. I considered changing the time period for her so it was limited to the amount of time to get to 5 fouls. But it is all just a rough yardstick.

I don't agree that more time on the floor equates to more value for the team. Anyone think Bueckers should have played 36 minutes per game when her team was winning by 30 points?

I still think the defensive end of the floor is under-represented, which is where players like Aari, Anna, and the Hulls shine. The net points scored while a player is on the court would be a measure I'd like to have, but I don't have access to that. That, plus the deltas on opponent's points against a team vs their average score (which I could have calculated).

While I would think it was wonderful if Anna gets a chance to hold Bueckers to a low-scoring output in the NC, I wouldn't mind much if Aari did that first, and Stanford has to hold Aari's team to a low-scoring output.

An all PAC-12 final would be a big tribute to the Naismith coach of the year. Actually, 2 of the FF is a tribute.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - chimera - 04-02-2021

Bueckers is a fantastic player, but her stats are a bit padded by Geno's non-use of his bench even when up 30+ and by their conference being so weak. I have no strong opinion about who should be POY. She is a reasonable choice. Just saying her stats may not tell the whole story.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - 82 Card - 04-02-2021

(03-31-2021, 06:05 PM)bl82 Wrote: In a perfect world, we would beat UConn by 34 in the finals and...

Anna would hold Bueckers to 5 points on 2-19 shooting...and collect 4 charges from different players along the way
Cam would block 8 shots
Hanna would nail 5 treys
Ashten would nail another 4 treys -- all coming off the bench
Lexie would have 5 steals
Haley would swish a half dozen of this insane drive, stop and hit the fadeaway moves
at some point we would go full-court press and have 3 consecutive steals we convert for layups
Fran would dunk over Nelson-Ododa
Kiana would drill a three from just inside half court and tap Tara on the ass while getting back on defense
...and the last basket would be a putback by Agnes

In my version of the perfect world, Arizona embarrasses UConn and Stanford wins the championship in a well played game where two great teams show the rest of the country how it's done in the west.

RE: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - 76lsjumb - 04-02-2021

(03-31-2021, 08:33 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:
(03-31-2021, 08:17 PM)CTcard Wrote:
(03-31-2021, 05:31 PM)Baez87 Wrote: Aari McDonald from Arizona has better numbers that UCON's Buekers and didn't even get nominated!

As far as I can tell, nobody was nominated. The ESPN article just lists those who received a vote.

Numbers
Player          Pts/gm    FG% 3PT% FT%    Rb/gm    Asst/gm Asst/TO
Bueckers       20.1    52.8     45.9 85.9 4.8 5.9    2.3
McDonald    20.3    41.4 33.3     77.9 5.4 4.3    1.3

Yeah, I was a little surprised by the comment that McDonald’s numbers were better than Bueckers’ and I gather that isn’t really the case.

Based on what I’ve seen Bueckers is quite clearly the best all around player out there, without even factoring in that she is a freshman. If we manage to play UConn and are able to shut her down at all, without giving up the defense of everyone else, it will likely be one of the best defensive performances by Stanford in a very long time.

It may be that no one west of the Mississippi got the consideration they deserved, but in my view that’s a moot point since that consideration would necessarily have been for Second Best Player in the country.

What clown thought that Bueckers was a better player than McDonald? He clearly doesn’t know a thing about basketball.

Probably picked Dewey in ‘48, too...

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - Farm93 - 04-02-2021

AP equals national media.

Most of the national media doesn't even bother to watch Pac-12 games as their stories must be ready to print before our games end.
On Sunday they will have no choice, and some Pac-12 player will become Tournament MOP.

And, honestly, I think every player in the country would rather be the NCAA Tournament MOP rather than AP national POY.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - BostonCard - 04-02-2021

I mean, players have bad nights, but tonight McDonald >> Buekers

McDonald had 26 points on 7/17 shooting, and was 4/9 from 3 pts and 8/11 from the line. As impressive, she had 7 rebounds. And after getting her second foul in the second quarter, she had no others.

Buekers had 18 points on 5/13 shooting, and was 2/3 from 3 and a perfect 6/6 from the line. She also had 6 rebounds and 4 assists, but 3 turnovers. To be honest, it was not a bad line, but it wasn't better than McDonald.

More importantly, Arizona's supporting cast was better than UConn's, which nobody expected. In particular Nelson-Ododa had a night to forget: 0/7 with 1 point, 1 turnover, and 3 fouls, despite (I believe) being the biggest player on the floor. Hell, she was outrebounded by McDonald, who was the smallest.

BC

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - CompSci87 - 04-03-2021

Kiana made the 10-member WBCA all American team.

NaLyssa Smith of Baylor got the Wade trophy.

https://wbca.org/about/press-releases/wade-trophy-winner-nalyssa-smith-baylor-headlines-2021-wbca-ncaa-division-i

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - akiddoc - 04-03-2021

When Bueckers tried to guard McDonald it was a mismatch. Not in Bueckers' favor. Bueckers is surrounded by 5 star talent. McDonald has to carry that team. Currently, McDonald is a better player. Certainly a more valuable player.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - CompSci87 - 04-03-2021

(04-03-2021, 12:25 PM)akiddoc Wrote: When Bueckers tried to guard McDonald it was a mismatch. Not in Bueckers' favor. Bueckers is surrounded by 5 star talent. McDonald has to carry that team. Currently, McDonald is a better player. Certainly a more valuable player.

+1000. Bueckers got her POY award for being UConn's best player already as a freshman. That reflects more on how good UConn is this year than on whether Bueckers deserved POY this year. Not to say she shouldn't have been all American or even that UConn's other players are chopped liver, but POY was a bit much. Give that to a senior who has proved it for four years.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - crackpot - 04-03-2021

(04-03-2021, 12:34 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(04-03-2021, 12:25 PM)akiddoc Wrote: When Bueckers tried to guard McDonald it was a mismatch. Not in Bueckers' favor. Bueckers is surrounded by 5 star talent. McDonald has to carry that team. Currently, McDonald is a better player. Certainly a more valuable player.

+1000. Bueckers got her POY award for being UConn's best player already as a freshman. That reflects more on how good UConn is this year than on whether Bueckers deserved POY this year. Not to say she shouldn't have been all American or even that UConn's other players are chopped liver, but POY was a bit much. Give that to a senior who has proved it for four years.

Bueckers has amazing skill. However, in the tournament it appeared that it was very easy for the opponents to get into her head. I would have expected Geno to have adequately prepared his star player for such pressure, though I guess I over-estimated him. I was thinking back a lot on the 2001 semifinal U-Conn. had against ND. I don't remember Taurasi looking so flustered, just ticked off when they were losing.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - Goose - 04-03-2021

(04-03-2021, 02:37 PM)crackpot Wrote: Bueckers has amazing skill. However, in the tournament it appeared that it was very easy for the opponents to get into her head. I would have expected Geno to have adequately prepared his star player for such pressure, though I guess I over-estimated him. I was thinking back a lot on the 2001 semifinal U-Conn. had against ND. I don't remember Taurasi looking so flustered, just ticked off when they were losing.

Geno couldn't really prepare her because UConn didn't play anybody who could challenge her talent wise and scheme wise. You can talk about it, and you can try to "simulate" it, but it isn't the same has having what usually works for you taken away. There is a reason Tara usually plays some good teams that might actually beat us in preseason. COVID-19 really cut down on both the ability to practice and the ability to travel and play against top-tier opponents. That undoubtedly affected UConn as well. We saw some really good teams in our league. UConn, for the most part did not.You can't simulate playing a motivated and skilled opponent that knows what you want to do, has a plan to take that away and is physically capable of doing so.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - Spiny_Norman - 04-03-2021

(04-03-2021, 06:14 PM)Goose Wrote:
(04-03-2021, 02:37 PM)crackpot Wrote: Bueckers has amazing skill. However, in the tournament it appeared that it was very easy for the opponents to get into her head. I would have expected Geno to have adequately prepared his star player for such pressure, though I guess I over-estimated him. I was thinking back a lot on the 2001 semifinal U-Conn. had against ND. I don't remember Taurasi looking so flustered, just ticked off when they were losing.
Geno couldn't really prepare her because UConn didn't play anybody who could challenge her talent wise and scheme wise. You can talk about it, and you can try to "simulate" it, but it isn't the same has having what usually works for you taken away. There is a reason Tara usually plays some good teams that might actually beat us in preseason. COVID-19 really cut down on both the ability to practice and the ability to travel and play against top-tier opponents. That undoubtedly affected UConn as well. We saw some really good teams in our league. UConn, for the most part did not.You can't simulate playing a motivated and skilled opponent that knows what you want to do, has a plan to take that away and is physically capable of doing so.

UConn played South Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas in non-conference games. They were supposed to play Baylor as well, but that regular season game was cancelled because of Covid. It's a reasonable schedule. But UConn is not challenged at all in conference. My $0.02 is that their conference schedule does not allow them to develop the mental toughness needed to win 3 consecutive games against strong opponents (regional final, semifinal, final). Perhaps that is why they have lost 4 consecutive semifinal matchups.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - Goose - 04-03-2021

(04-03-2021, 06:37 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: UConn played South Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas in non-conference games. They were supposed to play Baylor as well, but that regular season game was cancelled because of Covid. It's a reasonable schedule. But UConn is not challenged at all in conference. My $0.02 is that their conference schedule does not allow them to develop the mental toughness needed to win 3 consecutive games against strong opponents (regional final, semifinal, final). Perhaps that is why they have lost 4 consecutive semifinal matchups.

It is a better schedule than I realized, although Tennessee and Arkansas didn't turn out to be as strong as perhaps was anticipated when they made up the schedule. That said, I totally agree that their weaker conference schedule doesn't challenge them enough to require them to deal with adversity on a regular basis. ESPN hype non-withstanding, I do not think UConn played to their potential, because they mostly didn't have to. There are many reasons that a team may lose four consecutive semifinal games (including bad luck), but not having tested your skills against good players week after week is certainly a possibility.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - magnus - 04-03-2021

Bueckers has been named the Naismith Player of the Year as well.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - PVTree - 04-03-2021

Gene-o's weak conference will have him surpassing Tara in most wins in a couple of years. While Tara may have a good year and go 30-5, Gene-o will go 34-2.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - 81alum - 04-03-2021

(04-03-2021, 07:16 PM)PVTree Wrote: Gene-o's weak conference will have him surpassing Tara in most wins in a couple of years. While Tara may have a good year and go 30-5, Gene-o will go 34-2.

This is true. However, for decades the Pac 8 and the Pac 10 were weak conferences, and Tara steamrollered through it year after year, having to load up the non-conference schedule since the Pac 10 gave us too little serious competition. Lately it is quite different--thanks in large part to Tara's influence. Tara's true contributions go way beyond the number of wins, and Geno's go way below the number of wins.

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - CTcard - 04-03-2021

(04-02-2021, 08:53 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I mean, players have bad nights, but tonight McDonald >> Buekers

McDonald had 26 points on 7/17 shooting, and was 4/9 from 3 pts and 8/11 from the line. As impressive, she had 7 rebounds. And after getting her second foul in the second quarter, she had no others.

Buekers had 18 points on 5/13 shooting, and was 2/3 from 3 and a perfect 6/6 from the line. She also had 6 rebounds and 4 assists, but 3 turnovers. To be honest, it was not a bad line, but it wasn't better than McDonald.

More importantly, Arizona's supporting cast was better than UConn's, which nobody expected. In particular Nelson-Ododa had a night to forget: 0/7 with 1 point, 1 turnover, and 3 fouls, despite (I believe) being the biggest player on the floor. Hell, she was outrebounded by McDonald, who was the smallest.

BC

No doubt McDonald was better than Bueckers in that game, by a lot.
Interestingly, the stats were less clear on the matter. McDonald's FG% was only 2.7% better, she had one more rebound but 4 fewer assists. From those numbers alone one might think they played a similar quality game but Bueckers chose a little more to feed teammates instead of shooting. But, that's not what happened. McDonald took control of the game where Bueckers did not.

Still, as BC noted, the proximate cause of UConn losing was the disappearance of their supposedly far superior front court. UA's front court outscored UConn's by 31-9 (plus or minus a bit, as they play different team structures, with more guards on the court for UConn most of the time).

Saying UConn can't get ready for the tournament or that Bueckers wasn't prepared doesn't seem well founded to me. UConn's tournament record over the past 30 years is second to none, and they've managed to eke out 11 National Championships. Bueckers has averaged 21.6 points in the tournament, better than her season average pre-tournament of 19.7. But, in one game, we did see a freshman unable to carry and lead her team at the same level that McDonald, a senior, could.
[And Taurasi in the 2001 semifinal was 1-15 shooting and fouled out. If she wasn't flustered, it didn't help her out at all.]

------
More on point for us.
Dana Evans: 24 points, 6-8 3PT
Zia Cooke: 25 points, 5-8 3PT
Aari McDonald: ??

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - BostonCard - 04-04-2021

One thing about Buekers versus McDonald is it seemed like a lot of Buekers points came late in the game so it definitely had a sense of “too little, too late” while McDonald started hot and faded a little bit. Had UConn come from behind to win, I’m sure the narrative would have been different.

BC

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - Goose - 04-04-2021

(04-03-2021, 09:50 PM)CTcard Wrote: Saying UConn can't get ready for the tournament or that Bueckers wasn't prepared doesn't seem well founded to me. UConn's tournament record over the past 30 years is second to none, and they've managed to eke out 11 National Championships. Bueckers has averaged 21.6 points in the tournament, better than her season average pre-tournament of 19.7. But, in one game, we did see a freshman unable to carry and lead her team at the same level that McDonald, a senior, could.

[And Taurasi in the 2001 semifinal was 1-15 shooting and fouled out. If she wasn't flustered, it didn't help her out at all.]

I agree that Bueckers being "frustrated" or "flustered" wasn't the problem. Arizona simply played better than UConn did. I would still say that UConn as a team (not just Bueckers) was not prepared for the pressure they faced from Arizona. The failure of the front court to match Arizona's isn't Bueckers "fault", but she was unable to find a way to get them going. McDonald being a senior had the experience to lead her team and UConn didn't phase them. I am sure everybody watching the game, including Arizona fans were thinking "OK, UConn is going to go on a run. Will Arizona have an answer?". But UConn never really did go on a run. They just didn't have it in them. Arizona isn't physically better than UConn. UConn just wasn't ready to play a serious opponent who would attack them relentlessly all game long.
The fact that other UConn teams were prepared and/or didn't face a team that was able to challenge them in other years has absolutely nothing to say about this year. They weren't ready for Arizona. This isn't shown by the fact they lost, but rather because of how they lost.

Quote:-----
More on point for us.
Dana Evans: 24 points, 6-8 3PT
Zia Cooke: 25 points, 5-8 3PT
Aari McDonald: ??

W
W
??
The other team gets a vote. At this level, you have to anticipate meeting some teams who can play. Tara has been pretty good at devising a strategy to deliver solid defense and wins. As the UConn game demonstrated, Buekers more or less got her points. You probably aren't going to "stop" McDonald either. However, if you can stop the rest of the team and just slow down/contain MCDonald, you will win. Lets hope we can do that, as we have in our previous games. It may be much harder this time, as the rest of Arizona's team is playing better and "believes".

RE: WBB: AP names Player and Coach of the Year - 82 Card - 04-05-2021

(04-03-2021, 07:34 PM)81alum Wrote:
(04-03-2021, 07:16 PM)PVTree Wrote: Gene-o's weak conference will have him surpassing Tara in most wins in a couple of years. While Tara may have a good year and go 30-5, Gene-o will go 34-2.
This is true. However, for decades the Pac 8 and the Pac 10 were weak conferences, and Tara steamrollered through it year after year, having to load up the non-conference schedule since the Pac 10 gave us too little serious competition. Lately it is quite different--thanks in large part to Tara's influence. Tara's true contributions go way beyond the number of wins, and Geno's go way below the number of wins.

Tara never played in PAC 8. She came to Stanford when the women played in Pacific West Conference (formerly WCAA). She didn't start steamrolling until her third year. By then PAC10 was sponsoring women's sports.