Outside Topic Vanderbilt - Printable Version

Outside Topic Vanderbilt - Printable Version

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RE: Vanderbilt - Brickcity - 09-20-2021

(09-20-2021, 10:15 PM)oldalum Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 06:05 PM)teejers1 Wrote: I attended the game and believe the Vandy stadium is great for viewing the game and not unattractive at all. So I was very curious to read the article and why Vandy ranked #1 in worst college venues. The article emphasizes heavily lack of attendance.
I attended the Vandy-Georgia game in the last Franklin year, when Vandy upset Georgia. The stadium was full (admittedly probably 1/4 Georgia fans) and the game and atmosphere electric. The lack of high-level amenities (bleacher seats, ugly concrete, whatever) didn't bother me at all. I don't think Vandy expects ever to win an SEC championship in football. But if they can have a majority of winning seasons and play sometimes in a bowl I think the fan base will return. There is an extensive tailgating tradition. Student attendance seems not to be great, in part because of a tradition of heavy "pre-gaming" along the fraternity/sorority row (which non-Greek students attend). But to compete against other SEC teams, they have to be able to recruit better and need facilities to help do that--apparently training, locker room stuff as well as stadium.

[side comment: the Georgia fans were constantly woofing and barking everywhere--very annoying]

Re your last comment, well, these are SEC fans we're talking about!

RE: Vanderbilt - CTcard - 09-21-2021

On Vandy spending $300 million:
I don't care much how Vandy spends its money. But, remember also that announced dollar totals are works of art. Stanford's $90 million stadium build was fake to the low side, partly because of in-kind contributions from Arrillaga and partly (I suspect) because Stanford didn't want the total to look too large. Vandy apparently wants the total to look large ("see - we do care about football!").

On clock management:
I saw only a little to complain about on this front, at least versus most teams if not versus perfection.
I just rewatched the end of the game. In the last 10 minutes, there appeared to be a single snap with more than 10 seconds on the clock - the punt at 7:37 was with about 12 seconds on the play clock. Most plays in that span were under 5 seconds. There was a significant time wastage a little earlier, but in the fourth quarter, on the play after the Humphries PI call. It took the refs a long time to signal the play/game clock to start, the play clock appeared to have the wrong time (40 secs vs 25), the team was ready to go before the refs signalled to start the clock, the snap was a few seconds after time was whistled in. The offense could have stood around for 20+ seconds before snapping the ball. At that point there was either no thinking about the clock at all or some kind of assumption of playing under the older rules where the game clock wouldn't start until the snap.
The DOG on the FG has been fully discussed. It appeared to be a three-way issue of a very quick clock restart after the OB play, brief indecision on going for a first down or not, and a bit of a delay getting the ball snapped. Not good, but ultimately meaningless.

On Karty:
He may have the strongest leg I have seen for a Stanford place kicker. However, at the moment he is spraying the ball a little bit. A couple of his PATs just made it. I expect that to straighten out. It does look like he could make a FG at well over 60 yards.

Slight correction to BC's recipe for a Vandy bowl.
They're looking for 1 FCS team and 3 Group of Five games and 2-6 in the SEC - not 3 Power 5 out of conference games. Just a slip of the fingers.

RE: Vanderbilt - BostonCard - 09-21-2021

(09-21-2021, 07:02 AM)CTcard Wrote: Slight correction to BC's recipe for a Vandy bowl.
They're looking for 1 FCS team and 3 Group of Five games and 2-6 in the SEC - not 3 Power 5 out of conference games. Just a slip of the fingers.

Thanks! That is what I meant. As you point out, a slip of the fingers. I mean, who would be crazy enough to schedule 3 Power 5 out-of-conference games. That would be, like, really stupid!

BC

RE: Vanderbilt - BobK - 09-21-2021

BYU is on our future schedules and will soon be Power 5.

lex24 - lex24 - 09-21-2021

(09-20-2021, 03:12 PM)slide Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 02:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Curious what the clock mismanagement you are referring to? Shaw stole us three points by calling a time out after the Vandy second down play and getting the ball back at the end of the half for a field goal attempt as the clock expired. I only counted one time out on offense, but I don't think it was because the clock expired; it was taken with 9 seconds on the game clock. I guess we did have a delay of game on a field goal attempt. Is that what drove you to hit the beer garden?

BC

yes, in crucial situations, plays are extremely late getting in, if they get in time at all. the Sanders mildcat seems to be a really slow personnel package to get going. anyway unnecessary DOGs or wasted TOs. I will give credit though -- no Shahfecta -- the DOG followed by TO followed by DOG which has occurred.

our whole section was yelling at Shaw on the TO you reference. as Vandy is only slightly louder than the Library, he may have heard us? then late in the game when Myrtle-ing, Shaw does the opposite -- plays are in quickly and we don't run out the clock well -- sometimes under 10, never under 5 and sometimes above 30 (or at least in stadium play clock). may be out of practice on Myrtle-ing? in these latter situations, alas the beer garden had closed so impact probably much more pronounced.

good rally (tip of the hat to the West Coasters). among others, it was great to see Garin Veris and Greg Baty at the game. we could have used them both.

If you can show me Stanford takes more TOS or gets more DOG’s than the average non uptempo team, I’ll buy it. I see lots of teams burning timeouts to avoid DOGs. Or taking DOGs. Even at pro level.

One other factor. And you’d need to follow pretty close. How many are from breaking huddle late? How many are QB indecision. The latter is not on the staff.

Finally, what would you consider leaving huddle late? Under 10???

I’ve always thought they have done run clock down well in past when ahead. But I’ve missed both KSU and Vandy games. So I can’t comment on this year. But in game. that’s more on the QB than the staff. If McKee is snapping early that needs to be addressed. If it is not - that certainly is on the staff. Remember, McKee is still inexperienced in game situations.

RE: lex24 - Jamesy - 09-21-2021

(09-21-2021, 08:15 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 03:12 PM)slide Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 02:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Curious what the clock mismanagement you are referring to? Shaw stole us three points by calling a time out after the Vandy second down play and getting the ball back at the end of the half for a field goal attempt as the clock expired. I only counted one time out on offense, but I don't think it was because the clock expired; it was taken with 9 seconds on the game clock. I guess we did have a delay of game on a field goal attempt. Is that what drove you to hit the beer garden?

BC

yes, in crucial situations, plays are extremely late getting in, if they get in time at all. the Sanders mildcat seems to be a really slow personnel package to get going. anyway unnecessary DOGs or wasted TOs. I will give credit though -- no Shahfecta -- the DOG followed by TO followed by DOG which has occurred.

our whole section was yelling at Shaw on the TO you reference. as Vandy is only slightly louder than the Library, he may have heard us? then late in the game when Myrtle-ing, Shaw does the opposite -- plays are in quickly and we don't run out the clock well -- sometimes under 10, never under 5 and sometimes above 30 (or at least in stadium play clock). may be out of practice on Myrtle-ing? in these latter situations, alas the beer garden had closed so impact probably much more pronounced.

good rally (tip of the hat to the West Coasters). among others, it was great to see Garin Veris and Greg Baty at the game. we could have used them both.

If you can show me Stanford takes more TOS or gets more DOG’s than the average non uptempo team, I’ll buy it. I see lots of teams burning timeouts to avoid DOGs. Or taking DOGs. Even at pro level.

One other factor. And you’d need to follow pretty close. How many are from breaking huddle late? How many are QB indecision. The latter is not on the staff.

Finally, what would you consider leaving huddle late? Under 10???

I’ve always thought they have done run clock down well in past when ahead. But I’ve missed both KSU and Vandy games. So I can’t comment on this year. But in game. that’s more on the QB than the staff. If McKee is snapping early that needs to be addressed. If it is not - that certainly is on the staff. Remember, McKee is still inexperienced in game situations.

From my viewpoint, I see a couple common issues. The 40 second clock starts immediately after a kick off return ends and we're frequently still huddling on the sideline for a while after the clock starts. This is why we have a lot of DOGs/TOs after a kick off. The other issue I see is that we're getting the play calls in late. It was worse 2-3 years ago where we'd break the huddle consistently with under 10 seconds left, now it's more in the 15-20 seconds later with a few <15 second breaks.

RE: lex24 - teejers1 - 09-21-2021

(09-21-2021, 08:15 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 03:12 PM)slide Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 02:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Curious what the clock mismanagement you are referring to? Shaw stole us three points by calling a time out after the Vandy second down play and getting the ball back at the end of the half for a field goal attempt as the clock expired. I only counted one time out on offense, but I don't think it was because the clock expired; it was taken with 9 seconds on the game clock. I guess we did have a delay of game on a field goal attempt. Is that what drove you to hit the beer garden?

BC

yes, in crucial situations, plays are extremely late getting in, if they get in time at all. the Sanders mildcat seems to be a really slow personnel package to get going. anyway unnecessary DOGs or wasted TOs. I will give credit though -- no Shahfecta -- the DOG followed by TO followed by DOG which has occurred.

our whole section was yelling at Shaw on the TO you reference. as Vandy is only slightly louder than the Library, he may have heard us? then late in the game when Myrtle-ing, Shaw does the opposite -- plays are in quickly and we don't run out the clock well -- sometimes under 10, never under 5 and sometimes above 30 (or at least in stadium play clock). may be out of practice on Myrtle-ing? in these latter situations, alas the beer garden had closed so impact probably much more pronounced.

good rally (tip of the hat to the West Coasters). among others, it was great to see Garin Veris and Greg Baty at the game. we could have used them both.

If you can show me Stanford takes more TOS or gets more DOG’s than the average non uptempo team, I’ll buy it. I see lots of teams burning timeouts to avoid DOGs. Or taking DOGs. Even at pro level.

One other factor. And you’d need to follow pretty close. How many are from breaking huddle late? How many are QB indecision. The latter is not on the staff.

Finally, what would you consider leaving huddle late? Under 10???

I’ve always thought they have done run clock down well in past when ahead. But I’ve missed both KSU and Vandy games. So I can’t comment on this year. But in game. that’s more on the QB than the staff. If McKee is snapping early that needs to be addressed. If it is not - that certainly is on the staff. Remember, McKee is still inexperienced in game situations.

Lex, you're losing it in your old age if you don't think Stanford was unduly plagued by DOG penalties and time outs called to avoid same for most of the Shaw Era. And really, who cares what DOG penalties other teams take? - it should rarely, if ever, happen at Stanford. And it doesn't with teams who anticipate various down-and-distance scenarios, think in advance, are committed and have conviction on their in-game strategies, etc. Stanford has been deficient on that front for far too long.

But I do think Shaw has improved on this very glaring deficiency in the last couple seasons, which is good.

P.S. Someone on TOS did a DOG analysis on Stanford versus other teams and it was not good. But that, too, was 2-3 seasons ago, and my gut tells me things have improved since then.

RE: lex24 - CTcard - 09-21-2021

(09-21-2021, 12:45 PM)teejers1 Wrote: P.S. Someone on TOS did a DOG analysis on Stanford versus other teams and it was not good.

Do you know how they did this?
I have never seen penalty stats broken down by penalty type. One could wade through all the box scores of every single game, but even there they are not always fully recorded.
A web site with this kind of information might be interesting.

RE: Vanderbilt - BostonCard - 09-21-2021

Here's the NFL data (for 2019, you can pick any year):

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/penalties.htm

I looked for an analogous page in the college football section but didn't find one.

Delay of game was the 10th most called penalty, being called just under 0.5 times a game.

BC

lex24 - lex24 - 09-22-2021

(09-21-2021, 12:45 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(09-21-2021, 08:15 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 03:12 PM)slide Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 02:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Curious what the clock mismanagement you are referring to? Shaw stole us three points by calling a time out after the Vandy second down play and getting the ball back at the end of the half for a field goal attempt as the clock expired. I only counted one time out on offense, but I don't think it was because the clock expired; it was taken with 9 seconds on the game clock. I guess we did have a delay of game on a field goal attempt. Is that what drove you to hit the beer garden?

BC

yes, in crucial situations, plays are extremely late getting in, if they get in time at all. the Sanders mildcat seems to be a really slow personnel package to get going. anyway unnecessary DOGs or wasted TOs. I will give credit though -- no Shahfecta -- the DOG followed by TO followed by DOG which has occurred.

our whole section was yelling at Shaw on the TO you reference. as Vandy is only slightly louder than the Library, he may have heard us? then late in the game when Myrtle-ing, Shaw does the opposite -- plays are in quickly and we don't run out the clock well -- sometimes under 10, never under 5 and sometimes above 30 (or at least in stadium play clock). may be out of practice on Myrtle-ing? in these latter situations, alas the beer garden had closed so impact probably much more pronounced.

good rally (tip of the hat to the West Coasters). among others, it was great to see Garin Veris and Greg Baty at the game. we could have used them both.

If you can show me Stanford takes more TOS or gets more DOG’s than the average non uptempo team, I’ll buy it. I see lots of teams burning timeouts to avoid DOGs. Or taking DOGs. Even at pro level.

One other factor. And you’d need to follow pretty close. How many are from breaking huddle late? How many are QB indecision. The latter is not on the staff.

Finally, what would you consider leaving huddle late? Under 10???

I’ve always thought they have done run clock down well in past when ahead. But I’ve missed both KSU and Vandy games. So I can’t comment on this year. But in game. that’s more on the QB than the staff. If McKee is snapping early that needs to be addressed. If it is not - that certainly is on the staff. Remember, McKee is still inexperienced in game situations.

Lex, you're losing it in your old age if you don't think Stanford was unduly plagued by DOG penalties and time outs called to avoid same for most of the Shaw Era. And really, who cares what DOG penalties other teams take? - it should rarely, if ever, happen at Stanford. And it doesn't with teams who anticipate various down-and-distance scenarios, think in advance, are committed and have conviction on their in-game strategies, etc. Stanford has been deficient on that front for far too long.

But I do think Shaw has improved on this very glaring deficiency in the last couple seasons, which is good.

P.S. Someone on TOS did a DOG analysis on Stanford versus other teams and it was not good. But that, too, was 2-3 seasons ago, and my gut tells me things have improved since then.

Why should it “rarely, if ever” happen at Stanford? They play a slow tempo game. Makes them more, not less, prone. TO’s and DOG’s Used to happen to St. James of Harbaugh quite a bit. Cost Niners a Super Bowl. Don’t know if it happens a lot at Michigan. .

RE: lex24 - teejers1 - 09-22-2021

(09-22-2021, 07:40 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(09-21-2021, 12:45 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(09-21-2021, 08:15 AM)lex24 Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 03:12 PM)slide Wrote:
(09-20-2021, 02:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Curious what the clock mismanagement you are referring to? Shaw stole us three points by calling a time out after the Vandy second down play and getting the ball back at the end of the half for a field goal attempt as the clock expired. I only counted one time out on offense, but I don't think it was because the clock expired; it was taken with 9 seconds on the game clock. I guess we did have a delay of game on a field goal attempt. Is that what drove you to hit the beer garden?

BC

yes, in crucial situations, plays are extremely late getting in, if they get in time at all. the Sanders mildcat seems to be a really slow personnel package to get going. anyway unnecessary DOGs or wasted TOs. I will give credit though -- no Shahfecta -- the DOG followed by TO followed by DOG which has occurred.

our whole section was yelling at Shaw on the TO you reference. as Vandy is only slightly louder than the Library, he may have heard us? then late in the game when Myrtle-ing, Shaw does the opposite -- plays are in quickly and we don't run out the clock well -- sometimes under 10, never under 5 and sometimes above 30 (or at least in stadium play clock). may be out of practice on Myrtle-ing?  in these latter situations, alas the beer garden had closed so impact probably much more pronounced.

good rally (tip of the hat to the West Coasters). among others, it was great to see Garin Veris and Greg Baty at the game. we could have used them both.

If you can show me Stanford takes more TOS or gets more DOG’s than the average non uptempo team, I’ll buy it. I see lots of teams burning timeouts to avoid DOGs. Or taking DOGs. Even at pro level.

One other factor. And you’d need to follow pretty close. How many are from breaking huddle late? How many are QB indecision. The latter is not on the staff.

Finally, what would you consider leaving huddle late? Under 10???

I’ve always thought they have done run clock down well in past when ahead. But I’ve missed both KSU and Vandy games. So I can’t comment on this year. But in game. that’s more on the QB than the staff. If McKee is snapping early that needs to be addressed. If it is not - that certainly is on the staff. Remember, McKee is still inexperienced in game situations.

Lex, you're losing it in your old age if you don't think Stanford was unduly plagued by DOG penalties and time outs called to avoid same for most of the Shaw Era. And really, who cares what DOG penalties other teams take? - it should rarely, if ever, happen at Stanford. And it doesn't with teams who anticipate various down-and-distance scenarios, think in advance, are committed and have conviction on their in-game strategies, etc. Stanford has been deficient on that front for far too long.

But I do think Shaw has improved on this very glaring deficiency in the last couple seasons, which is good.

P.S. Someone on TOS did a DOG analysis on Stanford versus other teams and it was not good. But that, too, was 2-3 seasons ago, and my gut tells me things have improved since then.

Why should it “rarely, if ever”  happen at Stanford? They play a slow tempo game. Makes them more, not less, prone. TO’s and DOG’s Used to happen to St. James of Harbaugh quite a bit. Cost Niners a Super Bowl. Don’t know if it happens a lot at Michigan. .

Because we're supposed to be "smarter" and DOG are dumb penalties.
The slow tempo is a non-sequitur. What, because "the plan" is to snap the ball with 5 or fewer seconds each time, then you increase the risk of DOG penalty. C'mon, now. How about getting to LOS a bit earlier . . . you can still snap it with 5 seconds left if you think that is some great strategic advantage.

RE: Vanderbilt - chrisk - 09-22-2021

Northwestern announced today that it is spending big money to upgrade its 95-year-old stadium (although not all of the $480M gift).

https://theathletic.com/news/northwestern-to-redo-stadium-with-incomparable-480-million-ryan-family-gift/3RsMOXFRXoyj

From the article:

A redevelopment of Northwestern’s Ryan Field is on the way, part of a $480 million gift to the school from Patrick and Shirley Ryan that will also support research in medical sciences and bolster university leadership positions in business.

The construction process will take multiple years, all but ensuring that Northwestern will likely have to play its home football games elsewhere during the process.

RE: Vanderbilt - slide - 09-22-2021

3 DOGs so far this year?
still #2 in NCAA to Army in terms of slowest pace of play in D-1?

RE: Vanderbilt - CTcard - 09-23-2021

(09-22-2021, 04:24 PM)slide Wrote: 3 DOGs so far this year?
still #2 in NCAA to Army in terms of slowest pace of play in D-1?

Not sure if your question marks indicate a question as to whether these statements are true or are asking why they are true.

Pace of play is interesting, though not entirely clear how to measure.

At the moment, Stanford is running the fewest plays per game according to cfbstats.com.
http://cfbstats.com/2021/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category10/sort04.html
[Another site has Stanford at only only fifth fewest plays per game, but their numbers for Stanford appear wrong. https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/plays-per-game ]

Of course that isn't exactly pace of play. This year, for example, Stanford has had a lot of short drives due to being either bad (three and outs) or explosive (quick TDs).

I found an interesting footballstudyhall article with a time between plays stat, apparently derived by dividing time of possession by number of plays run. Stanford is the usual winner of slowest pace of play, with a notable downturn when Shaw took over in 2011, but then rapidly returning to longest time. In particular, see the Pac 12 chart at the bottom of the article.
However, this analysis only covers through 2016.
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2016/11/7/13549506/college-football-tempo-pace-increasing