[merged] David Shaw’s pay - Printable Version

[merged] David Shaw’s pay - Printable Version

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RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - Goose - 10-18-2021

(10-17-2021, 10:41 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 02:19 PM)Goose Wrote: Was Harbaugh a genius at Stanford or was he lucky? I think probably both. As we have seen, he can't replicate that success on demand.

This is the second time I've seen this sentiment posted here (maybe you did it both times).
Regardless, hasn't Harbaugh been wildly successful at all his head coaching stops? (Along with being wildly a pain in the ass?).

I don't think it was me twice. IMHO Harbaugh was pretty successful at the 49ers, although he was on a bit of a "down slope" when he left. He has been anything but wildly successful at Michigan. He has been pretty "successful" in that he wins more than he loses, but, as I am pretty sure you are aware, has not won a championship and not defeated tOSU, the required definition of success at Michigan. His seat is intermittently "warm" for that reason. This year, he has a shot. If he wins the next few and beats tOSU, he will be "successful" this year. No way is that wildly successful.

Harbs probably would even own up to this situation. Granted, this is a very high level of expectation, but when you get the keys to a Ferrari, you are expected to drive it to the max. So, Harbaugh can't in fact win at will. Is he a good coach? Yes. Would he have done better that Shaw has done had he stayed? Unknowable, but IMHO improbable.

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - BostonCard - 10-18-2021

(10-17-2021, 10:41 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 02:19 PM)Goose Wrote: Was Harbaugh a genius at Stanford or was he lucky? I think probably both. As we have seen, he can't replicate that success on demand.

This is the second time I've seen this sentiment posted here (maybe you did it both times).
Regardless, hasn't Harbaugh been wildly successful at all his head coaching stops? (Along with being wildly a pain in the ass?).

Given that he replicated his success at the 49ers, and then at Michigan (the year before Harbaugh was hired, Brady Hoke went 5-7, and while Harbaugh hasn't brought Michigan any Big Ten championships yet, he won an average of 9 games his first five years there, and this might be the year he broke through).

The question is whether the conditions exist at Stanford for anyone to replicate what Harbaugh did. The two Johns plus Bowlsby created a much more favorable environment for football than Mark, Prell, and Muir.

BC

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - DC 86 - 10-18-2021

(10-18-2021, 05:52 AM)Goose Wrote: He has been anything but wildly successful at Michigan. He has been pretty "successful" in that he wins more than he loses, but, as I am pretty sure you are aware, has not won a championship and not defeated tOSU, the required definition of success at Michigan. His seat is intermittently "warm" for that reason. This year, he has a shot. If he wins the next few and beats tOSU, he will be "successful" this year. No way is that wildly successful.

Harbs probably would even own up to this situation. Granted, this is a very high level of expectation, but when you get the keys to a Ferrari, you are expected to drive it to the max.

Except that Michigan isn't a Ferrari and hasn't been for a long tome, notwithstanding Michigan fans' beliefs and expectations. You said he "wins more than he loses", technically accurate but he actually wins 2.5x as often as he loses.

Harbaugh's two immediate predecessors:

Rich Rodriguez: 15-22 (6-18 conference)
Brady Hoke: 31-20 (18-14 conference)

Harbaugh: 55-22 (37-16 conference)

Ryan Day was handed the keys to a Ferrari; Harbaugh was handed the keys to a sputtering midsized sedan (Hoke went from 11 wins to 8 wins to 7 wins to 5 wins during his tenure.)

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - Goose - 10-18-2021

(10-18-2021, 08:04 AM)BostonCard Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 10:41 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 02:19 PM)Goose Wrote: Was Harbaugh a genius at Stanford or was he lucky? I think probably both. As we have seen, he can't replicate that success on demand.

This is the second time I've seen this sentiment posted here (maybe you did it both times).
Regardless, hasn't Harbaugh been wildly successful at all his head coaching stops? (Along with being wildly a pain in the ass?).

Given that he replicated his success at the 49ers, and then at Michigan (the year before Harbaugh was hired, Brady Hoke went 5-7, and while Harbaugh hasn't brought Michigan any Big Ten championships yet, he won an average of 9 games his first five years there, and this might be the year he broke through).

The question is whether the conditions exist at Stanford for anyone to replicate what Harbaugh did. The two Johns plus Bowlsby created a much more favorable environment for football than Mark, Prell, and Muir.

BC

Come on BC, you are better than that. You didn't chose to also point out that Brady Hoke went 11-2 3 years before that. Seriously, I would agree that Harbs has been better than Hoke, but then Hoke got fired, so maybe that isn't really so great. You might want to look at
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/college-football/2019/01/101823/comparing-jim-harbaughs-first-four-years-at-michigan-to-brady-hokes-own-four-year-stint
if Harbs breaks through this year you almost have a point. However, he still trails both Carr and Moeller in winning percentages and much more importantly conference championships and bowl game wins. I won't even mention Bo because that was probably too long ago to be comparable.
In short, other guys have done significantly better at Michigan than Harbaugh has. He knows it, and that is probably why he took a pay cut. It is also obviously true that each year the situation in the B1G is more and more different than it was when Bo or Carr walked the sidelines, but that is the standard Harbaugh is being held to. So no, he hasn't replicated the success on the same level. Is that his "fault"? Could anyone else do better? If he doesn't beat tOSU this year, lots of people will tell you we will find out. Personally, I would keep him, at least for two more years, because he maybe has figured it out and I know he isn't going to quit trying. EUTM and all that precludes giving up.

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - Mick - 10-18-2021

(10-17-2021, 01:37 PM)82lsju Wrote: Fiorina, I was gone before Whitman arrived

I have two great Fiorina stories. Not for a public board.

(10-18-2021, 08:04 AM)BostonCard Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 10:41 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 02:19 PM)Goose Wrote: Was Harbaugh a genius at Stanford or was he lucky? I think probably both. As we have seen, he can't replicate that success on demand.

This is the second time I've seen this sentiment posted here (maybe you did it both times).
Regardless, hasn't Harbaugh been wildly successful at all his head coaching stops? (Along with being wildly a pain in the ass?).

Harbaugh lost Patrick Willis and Willis' replacement Chris Borland his first year, and started the year 9-1, going 13-3. This was a year after Singletary/Tomsula went 6-10. He went 11-4-1 and 12-4 the next two seasons, with 8-8 as his final year record. Total four year regular season record, 44-19-1 with three of the four 10+ win seasons since 2002. Compared to Shanahan's four year record of 33-45, I'd say Harbaugh did pretty well.

Given that he replicated his success at the 49ers, and then at Michigan (the year before Harbaugh was hired, Brady Hoke went 5-7, and while Harbaugh hasn't brought Michigan any Big Ten championships yet, he won an average of 9 games his first five years there, and this might be the year he broke through).

The question is whether the conditions exist at Stanford for anyone to replicate what Harbaugh did. The two Johns plus Bowlsby created a much more favorable environment for football than Mark, Prell, and Muir.

BC

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - winflop - 10-18-2021

(10-17-2021, 01:37 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 01:05 PM)SF_Cardinal_Fan Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 12:41 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 09:45 AM)Phogge Wrote: Well BC, you have a coach making millions and a crappy team. If this were a Valley corporation heading into the lower depths because the CEO wouldn't accept that change was needed how long would he stay running it?

Are there problems with having many threads? I don't believe in ultra clean desks or garages. let 'em post.

based on what I saw at HP longer than they should have....but the board was mostly "her people" so not in a hurry to act....

Fiorina or Whitman ?

Fiorina, I was gone before Whitman arrived

Same here. I survived the Fiorina era (barely) and got laid off not too long before Hurd was shown the door.

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - Austroturf - 10-18-2021

(10-18-2021, 03:05 PM)winflop Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 01:37 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 01:05 PM)SF_Cardinal_Fan Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 12:41 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 09:45 AM)Phogge Wrote: Well BC, you have a coach making millions and a crappy team. If this were a Valley corporation heading into the lower depths because the CEO wouldn't accept that change was needed how long would he stay running it?

Are there problems with having many threads? I don't believe in ultra clean desks or garages. let 'em post.

based on what I saw at HP longer than they should have....but the board was mostly "her people" so not in a hurry to act....

Fiorina or Whitman ?

Fiorina, I was gone before Whitman arrived

Same here. I survived the Fiorina era (barely) and got laid off not too long before Hurd was shown the door.

Looks like we are quite the ex-HP community here.

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - murky - 10-18-2021

(10-18-2021, 04:15 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 03:05 PM)winflop Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 01:37 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 01:05 PM)SF_Cardinal_Fan Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 12:41 PM)82lsju Wrote: based on what I saw at HP longer than they should have....but the board was mostly "her people" so not in a hurry to act....

Fiorina or Whitman ?

Fiorina, I was gone before Whitman arrived

Same here. I survived the Fiorina era (barely) and got laid off not too long before Hurd was shown the door.

Looks like we are quite the ex-HP community here.

Not all "ex".

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - BigJohn043 - 10-18-2021

(10-18-2021, 01:47 AM)Austroturf Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 10:41 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 02:19 PM)Goose Wrote: Was Harbaugh a genius at Stanford or was he lucky? I think probably both. As we have seen, he can't replicate that success on demand.

This is the second time I've seen this sentiment posted here (maybe you did it both times).
Regardless, hasn't Harbaugh been wildly successful at all his head coaching stops? (Along with being wildly a pain in the ass?).

Harbaugh has never had a losing season at Michigan (other than the pandemic-shortened aberration of 2020, when the Wolverines finished 2-4). His win percentage, at 71%, exceeds Shaw's win percentage at Stanford (70%), and all this in arguably a tougher conference. Harbaugh's main failing, so far, has been his inability to win a BIG championship and his 0-5 record against Ohio State. His 1-4 record in bowl games is also a blemish.

Frankly, I think Harbaugh's skill-set was a better fit to 2007 Stanford than 2015 Michigan. He inherited a moribund program on the Farm, brought in some excellent coaches and squeezed every ounce of potential out of the existing players, while at the same time furiously recruiting excellent future players. This sense of urgency is what I miss in the current regime. Michigan's program was underperforming, but was not nearly as broken as Stanford's in 2007. Brady Hoke had gone 11-2, 8-5, 7-6 and 5-7 before getting the ax. Further, Michigan is a football blue-blood. Harbaugh knew that, since he played there. So Harbaugh's EUTM-style was bound to be less effective than at a program where winning was less consistent and the "champion mindset" less prevalent. In my view, Harbaugh's success at Stanford was a combination of his being the right man at the right time and, yes, a bit of good fortune, because a number of traditionally-strong programs in the Pac-10 were down (UW and UCLA), and USC was entering a period of turbulence that ultimately got them slapped with sanctions. The flagship program in the conference was Oregon, and they ensured that Harbaugh failed to win the Pac-10 in his best and final season (2010).

And, yes, Harbaugh is famously rough around the edges. That personality trait got him canned at the 49ers and has rubbed many players, colleagues, staff members and fans the wrong way. But his results, so far, are undeniably excellent.

FWIW, another big difference between Harbaugh at Stanford and Michigan has been the quality of his assistants. At Stanford, he used his NFL connections to continually recruit great coaches. At Michigan, the word it out that he is crazy and he assistants are pretty average. Head coaches get way too much credit IMO.

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - norcard - 10-18-2021

(10-18-2021, 04:51 PM)murky Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 04:15 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 03:05 PM)winflop Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 01:37 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 01:05 PM)SF_Cardinal_Fan Wrote: Fiorina or Whitman ?

Fiorina, I was gone before Whitman arrived

Same here. I survived the Fiorina era (barely) and got laid off not too long before Hurd was shown the door.

Looks like we are quite the ex-HP community here.

Not all "ex".

=(, can't imagine stanford alums at HP. Tough place to be

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - murky - 10-19-2021

(10-18-2021, 05:35 PM)norcard Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 04:51 PM)murky Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 04:15 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 03:05 PM)winflop Wrote:
(10-17-2021, 01:37 PM)82lsju Wrote: Fiorina, I was gone before Whitman arrived

Same here. I survived the Fiorina era (barely) and got laid off not too long before Hurd was shown the door.

Looks like we are quite the ex-HP community here.

Not all "ex".

=(, can't imagine stanford alums at HP. Tough place to be

A bumpy ride for sure. And in case you are wondering, I'm not my classmate, Alex Cho, President of Personal Systems.

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - Austroturf - 10-19-2021

(10-19-2021, 02:17 PM)murky Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 05:35 PM)norcard Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 04:51 PM)murky Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 04:15 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 03:05 PM)winflop Wrote: Same here. I survived the Fiorina era (barely) and got laid off not too long before Hurd was shown the door.

Looks like we are quite the ex-HP community here.

Not all "ex".

=(, can't imagine stanford alums at HP. Tough place to be

A bumpy ride for sure. And in case you are wondering, I'm not my classmate, Alex Cho, President of Personal Systems.

Nice to see there is someone still working there. The bumpy ride has catapulted a number of us into the ex category. But it's all good.

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - teejers1 - 10-19-2021

(10-18-2021, 10:18 AM)Goose Wrote: You might want to look at
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/college-football/2019/01/101823/comparing-jim-harbaughs-first-four-years-at-michigan-to-brady-hokes-own-four-year-stint
if Harbs breaks through this year you almost have a point.

Seriously? The link shows Harbaugh's 4-year record at 38-14 vs. Hoke's 31-20.

Plus, Hoke didn't coach against tOSU at Peak Urban, as Harbaugh did. What Meyer had going at tOSU after settling in was ridiculous - as we Stanford fans know well from losing freaking Stanford kids to Urban and tOSU (when did THAT ever happen before?).

Plus, Harbaugh took his teams to better bowls against tougher competition.

Don't think the coaches' tenure are even comparable.

We'll see how this season plays out for Harbs, but his Wolverines are off to a pretty good start . . .

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - DC 86 - 10-19-2021

(10-19-2021, 05:02 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-18-2021, 10:18 AM)Goose Wrote: You might want to look at
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/college-football/2019/01/101823/comparing-jim-harbaughs-first-four-years-at-michigan-to-brady-hokes-own-four-year-stint
if Harbs breaks through this year you almost have a point.

Seriously? The link shows Harbaugh's 4-year record at 38-14 vs. Hoke's 31-20.

Plus, Hoke didn't coach against tOSU at Peak Urban, as Harbaugh did. What Meyer had going at tOSU after settling in was ridiculous - as we Stanford fans know well from losing freaking Stanford kids to Urban and tOSU (when did THAT ever happen before?).

Plus, Harbaugh took his teams to better bowls against tougher competition.

Don't think the coaches' tenure are even comparable.

We'll see how this season plays out for Harbs, but his Wolverines are off to a pretty good start . . .

As I posted above, Hoke 18-14 in conference, Harbaugh 37-16 in conference. Hoke did have an 11-win season and then won fewer games each successive season for the next three years.

RE: [merged] David Shaw’s pay - Stanfordindians1again - 10-19-2021

Sorry for reposting salary all...I was gone off board for a bit and didn't see original post

and I lost the WSU prediction game

#crappyweek