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RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - BostonCard - 10-27-2021

Turkey was fired by the athletics department administration, not Shaw, and was fired for cause.  He messed up; your viewpoint may be that the administration overreacted, but this was not Shaw’s call.

BC

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - Mick - 10-27-2021

(10-22-2021, 02:46 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote:  What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

Agree with your first sentence (Shaw had that experience) and agree with your second sentence in theory.  Just an observation based upon my experience managing different levels of people, but I wonder if David Shaw watched Harbaugh sign multiple top level talents and thought "that's easy.  Anyone can do it."  My suspicion is that Shaw knows what to do in theory, and thinks he can replicate it...but he really can't.  I don't think he has that magic selling skill set. Selling at the highest level is an art form, it's difficult, and it means being a great listener. My sense of the Stanford coaches that I met is that the benefits of being recruited to Stanford are largely self-evident -- and to us, that's true. To 17 year old 4* talents, maybe not so much.

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - teejers1 - 10-27-2021

(10-27-2021, 07:49 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  Turkey was fired by the athletics department administration, not Shaw, and was fired for cause.  He messed up; your viewpoint may be that the administration overreacted, but this was not Shaw’s call.

BC

I'm not saying you're wrong; however, I wonder if Shaw (a) went to the mat to keep Turley, and (b) if he had, then would the administration have considered something less drastic that termination.  But like a lot of things within the program, we don't know more than we know.  (At least that applies to me).

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - Papa John - 10-27-2021

(10-27-2021, 08:42 AM)Mick Wrote:  
(10-22-2021, 02:46 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote:  What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

Agree with your first sentence (Shaw had that experience) and agree with your second sentence in theory.  Just an observation based upon my experience managing different levels of people, but I wonder if David Shaw watched Harbaugh sign multiple top level talents and thought "that's easy.  Anyone can do it."  My suspicion is that Shaw knows what to do in theory, and thinks he can replicate it...but he really can't.  I don't think he has that magic selling skill set.  Selling at the highest level is an art form, it's difficult, and it means being a great listener.  My sense of the Stanford coaches that I met is that the benefits of being recruited to Stanford are largely self-evident -- and to us, that's true.  To 17 year old 4* talents, maybe not so much.

Per Rivals, Stanford's recruiting class rankings since 2016:
2016: 19 (7 4- and 5-star)
2017: 19 (10)
2018: 57 (4)
2019: 24 (6)
2020: 23 (8)
2021: 47 (2)
2022 (in progress): 15 (6)

So Shaw has demonstrated that he can recruit top-25 talent. The problem, as has been pointed out numerous times on this board, is that he hasn't always had top-25 depth. That and losing to teams with less-talented rosters, which points to coaching and strength/conditioning.

It seems to me that Shaw and co. are slowly figuring out the recruiting part of the problem. So I'm in the camp of thinking he can and will solve the other issues.

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - murky - 10-27-2021

(10-27-2021, 08:42 AM)Mick Wrote:  
(10-22-2021, 02:46 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote:  What I found most astonishing in the Shaw era decline is Shaw was witness to the success at San Diego and Stanford with Harbaugh. He knew exactly what it took to build those programs.

After squandering away his inheritance you think he's magically gonna turn it around?!?

Agree with your first sentence (Shaw had that experience) and agree with your second sentence in theory.  Just an observation based upon my experience managing different levels of people, but I wonder if David Shaw watched Harbaugh sign multiple top level talents and thought "that's easy.  Anyone can do it."  My suspicion is that Shaw knows what to do in theory, and thinks he can replicate it...but he really can't.  I don't think he has that magic selling skill set.  Selling at the highest level is an art form, it's difficult, and it means being a great listener.  My sense of the Stanford coaches that I met is that the benefits of being recruited to Stanford are largely self-evident -- and to us, that's true.  To 17 year old 4* talents, maybe not so much.

Shaw's surfeit of integrity may preclude Harbaugh style recruiting.

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - Hurlburt88 - 10-27-2021

I personally like this wording better

Shaw's surfeit of integrity may preclude Harbaugh style recruiting.

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - Solo77 - 10-27-2021

(10-27-2021, 11:30 AM)Hurlburt88 Wrote:  I personally like this wording better

Shaw's surfeit of integrity may preclude Harbaugh style recruiting.

What exactly does this mean? Has Harbaugh shown a lack of integrity in recruiting? I am not aware of anything.

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - murky - 10-27-2021

(10-27-2021, 11:30 AM)Hurlburt88 Wrote:  I personally like this wording better

Shaw's surfeit of integrity may preclude Harbaugh style recruiting.

Me too, original phrasing meant ironically.

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - BostonCard - 10-27-2021

There is a middle ground between overly conservative one-at-a-time recruiting a la Shaw, and overly aggressive, willingness to leave recruits out in the cold a la Harbaugh.

Shaw has been slow to react to recruiting developments, particularly around the change to earlier signing periods and the trans, but he is learning from mistakes and by one objective measure (proportion of scholarships used), he is getting better.

BC

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - Phogge - 10-27-2021

Without Harbaugh there is no Shaw.

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - BostonCard - 10-27-2021

A more interesting hypothetical is where we would be without Shaw.  Who would have been hired when Harbaugh left?  Would he have taken us to back-to-back Rose Bowls with the team inherited from Harbaugh?  Would he have bolted thereafter?

BC

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - Phogge - 10-27-2021

Fangio.

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - BostonCard - 10-27-2021

Frangio has more losing seasons as a head coach than Shaw does despite being on his third season as coach.  Brilliant defensive coordinator; head coaching chops are still TBD.

BC

RE: 2021's Football claim to fame - CardinalSagehen - 10-27-2021

(10-27-2021, 02:54 AM)fullmetal Wrote:  The loss of Turley seems to have coincided with a lack of toughness on the OL. 

Yes, it does seem to have coincided, to some degree. But I disagree that the explanation is that simple. I'm sure that if Colorado were any good this year, some people would be saying, "See, it's Turley!"  But Colorado sucks royally - with its lone wins over hapless Northern Colorado and winless Arizona - so those people will say he needs one or two more offseason periods to make a difference. It will be interesting to see whether Colorado is mauling people and winning games in a year or two.    

On the topic of OL softness, here is something nice to see.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/maeubanks/status/1453580388882735104?s=20[/tweet]

This is just the kind of honorary captain that we need right now!  One of the best offensive linemen of this generation!