The beginning of the end for college sports.

The beginning of the end for college sports. - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: The beginning of the end for college sports. (/thread-22689.html)

Pages: 1 2 3

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - old spanish trail - 12-02-2021

Azzi Fudd, #1 wbb recruit who is a frosh at Conn. just signed a NIL with Steph Curry, unannounced $, Curry to mentor her. He describes her as the "next face of wbb". I beg to differ. As stated last year, Cameron Brink will be the next face of wbb. She runs like a deer, can shoot like a guard, regularly puts up 5 blocks per game and would average over 20 pts if Tara's offense fed her. Plus, she's electric and the camera loves her.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - JustAnotherFan - 12-02-2021

(12-02-2021, 06:31 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Azzi Fudd, #1 wbb recruit who is a frosh at Conn. just signed a NIL with Steph Curry, unannounced $, Curry to mentor her. He describes her as the "next face of wbb". I beg to differ. As stated last year, Cameron Brink will be the next face of wbb. She runs like a deer, can shoot like a guard, regularly puts up 5 blocks per game and would average over 20 pts if Tara's offense fed her. Plus, she's electric and the camera loves her.

Yeah, and Curry and Cam already have a relationship. I was a bit surprised.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - old spanish trail - 12-02-2021

(12-02-2021, 07:00 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(12-02-2021, 06:31 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Azzi Fudd, #1 wbb recruit who is a frosh at Conn. just signed a NIL with Steph Curry, unannounced $, Curry to mentor her. He describes her as the "next face of wbb". I beg to differ. As stated last year, Cameron Brink will be the next face of wbb. She runs like a deer, can shoot like a guard, regularly puts up 5 blocks per game and would average over 20 pts if Tara's offense fed her. Plus, she's electric and the camera loves her.

Yeah, and Curry and Cam already have a relationship. I was a bit surprised.

Me too. Maybe it would look too cheesy.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - Blue Hawk (Mizzou) Card - 12-02-2021

For those who see themselves ditching college sports, let me propose an alternative.

I'm back at my undergrad alma mater, Dickinson State of the NAIA, trying to help out in administration. Believe it or not, the NAIA had an NIL rule before the NCAA did (just like it had widely integrated sports before the NCAA did, women's national championships before the NCAA did, etc.). But, realistically, there is not much NIL'ing--at least, not yet--at our level.

Our student-athletes (well, the vast majority of them, anyway) are not under the impression that they will be playing in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or Olympics someday, though we actually did have a graduate anchor the Bahamian London Olympic 4 x 400 relay team. [It's a great story. Someday I will tell it here.] It really is "for the love of the game" at our level. Our football team made 600+ mile BUS trips to play its last two games this season. That's one way, btw, so 1,200+ miles in a bus just to play a game. And the bus crashed on one of those trips. [Happily, nobody was seriously hurt.]

That doesn't mean they don't take it seriously. Our kids work their tails off, pretty much year round, in the weight room and in some job they found to help them pay for college. [Some big time college athletes are getting NIL contracts. Ours get jobs.] The play a very entertaining brand of sports. They are a little shorter, a little less strong, and a little slower than D-I athletes. But they still are pretty darn good, and fun to watch. [Side note: Once our rodeo team's fall season is over, a group of rodeo student-athletes rides horses to lead the football team onto the field. Our version of Ralphie at CU. We love it.]

It's not ideal. Many of our student-athletes are good or great students, but we have to work hard to get some of them to class. Money still has an influence. Pretty much every one of our football seasons ends in the first round of the playoffs, when we go (600+ miles!) to get beat by some private school that has a much bigger athletic budget than we do. But there is something special about rooting for young women and men who really are out there because they love to play and love being on a team. Also, you might be surprised at how many of those young people who, at first, had to be encouraged to get to class end up with a degree and a good start to a career. The whole sports as a springboard to life happens quite a bit, though of course not always, here.

My wife and I had two sons who played college sports. One was a D-I football player. The other played golf at Dickinson State, like his dad (and grandfather). Both had good experiences, but as I look back on it I think the DSU golfer was better treated than the DI football player.

We struggle to put our athletic budget together just like everyone else. But we don't get distracted by brobdingnagian television contracts or big ticket revenue. [Don't get me wrong: If I could get a television network to pay for a big chunk of our athletic budget, I'd do it. In fact, I even tried, early last season when it looked like the NAIA might be the only college football around, to convince ESPN and other networks to televise our games. But the big boys starting playing, which botched that plan.] At our level, our football coach, who has won seven conference championships in a row, is also our Athletic Director, also teaches, and also picks up the trash when he's at our games (like I do).

It's not perfect. But it's a pretty nice version of college athletics. If the money at the DI level (which I obviously still enjoy, as I read this board regularly) eventually turns you off, consider adopting a small college team.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - cardcrimson - 12-02-2021

(12-02-2021, 07:44 PM)Blue Hawk (Mizzou) Card Wrote: For those who see themselves ditching college sports, let me propose an alternative.

I'm back at my undergrad alma mater, Dickinson State of the NAIA, trying to help out in administration. Believe it or not, the NAIA had an NIL rule before the NCAA did (just like it had widely integrated sports before the NCAA did, women's national championships before the NCAA did, etc.). But, realistically, there is not much NIL'ing--at least, not yet--at our level.

Our student-athletes (well, the vast majority of them, anyway) are not under the impression that they will be playing in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or Olympics someday, though we actually did have a graduate anchor the Bahamian London Olympic 4 x 400 relay team. [It's a great story. Someday I will tell it here.] It really is "for the love of the game" at our level. Our football team made 600+ mile BUS trips to play its last two games this season. That's one way, btw, so 1,200+ miles in a bus just to play a game. And the bus crashed on one of those trips. [Happily, nobody was seriously hurt.]

That doesn't mean they don't take it seriously. Our kids work their tails off, pretty much year round, in the weight room and in some job they found to help them pay for college. [Some big time college athletes are getting NIL contracts. Ours get jobs.] The play a very entertaining brand of sports. They are a little shorter, a little less strong, and a little slower than D-I athletes. But they still are pretty darn good, and fun to watch. [Side note: Once our rodeo team's fall season is over, a group of rodeo student-athletes rides horses to lead the football team onto the field. Our version of Ralphie at CU. We love it.]

It's not ideal. Many of our student-athletes are good or great students, but we have to work hard to get some of them to class. Money still has an influence. Pretty much every one of our football seasons ends in the first round of the playoffs, when we go (600+ miles!) to get beat by some private school that has a much bigger athletic budget than we do. But there is something special about rooting for young women and men who really are out there because they love to play and love being on a team. Also, you might be surprised at how many of those young people who, at first, had to be encouraged to get to class end up with a degree and a good start to a career. The whole sports as a springboard to life happens quite a bit, though of course not always, here.

My wife and I had two sons who played college sports. One was a D-I football player. The other played golf at Dickinson State, like his dad (and grandfather). Both had good experiences, but as I look back on it I think the DSU golfer was better treated than the DI football player.

We struggle to put our athletic budget together just like everyone else. But we don't get distracted by of immense proportions television contracts or big ticket revenue. [Don't get me wrong: If I could get a television network to pay for a big chunk of our athletic budget, I'd do it. In fact, I even tried, early last season when it looked like the NAIA might be the only college football around, to convince ESPN and other networks to televise our games. But the big boys starting playing, which botched that plan.] At our level, our football coach, who has won seven conference championships in a row, is also our Athletic Director, also teaches, and also picks up the trash when he's at our games (like I do).

It's not perfect. But it's a pretty nice version of college athletics. If the money at the DI level (which I obviously still enjoy, as I read this board regularly) eventually turns you off, consider adopting a small college team.

Great post. Thanks for sharing! Love the kids at the collegiate level still play because they love the game and the camaraderie. Love that the coaches (and parents) do what they can to support the program as well. That is what sports should be all about. . . .

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - Mick - 12-03-2021

(12-02-2021, 08:33 AM)winflop Wrote:
(12-02-2021, 06:41 AM)Mick Wrote: Which six sports have been dropped the most by collegiate athletic programs since 1990? I'll save the suspense. Here are the top six, with the percentage of 1990 collegiate programs that have dropped the sport since then. By the way, this nets out the college programs that have added those same sports, so the following represents a net reduction:

Men's Tennis (-21.7%)
Wrestling (-16.8%)
Men's Swimming (-15.9%)
Men's Gymnastics (-9.0%)
Baseball (-6.9%)
Men's Soccer (-6.4%)

How much of this is driven by Title IX? Those are all men's sports...

Probably just a coincidence. Here's the seven NCAA sports that grew the most since 1990:

Women's Soccer (69.3%)
Women's Golf (41.3%)
Softball (25.6%)
Women's Indoor Track (23.3%)
Women's Lacrosse (21.4%)
Women's Outdoor Track (18.4%)
Women's Rowing (17.9%)

lex24 - lex24 - 12-03-2021

(12-03-2021, 07:30 AM)Mick Wrote:
(12-02-2021, 08:33 AM)winflop Wrote:
(12-02-2021, 06:41 AM)Mick Wrote: Which six sports have been dropped the most by collegiate athletic programs since 1990? I'll save the suspense. Here are the top six, with the percentage of 1990 collegiate programs that have dropped the sport since then. By the way, this nets out the college programs that have added those same sports, so the following represents a net reduction:

Men's Tennis (-21.7%)
Wrestling (-16.8%)
Men's Swimming (-15.9%)
Men's Gymnastics (-9.0%)
Baseball (-6.9%)
Men's Soccer (-6.4%)

How much of this is driven by Title IX? Those are all men's sports...

Probably just a coincidence. Here's the seven NCAA sports that grew the most since 1990:

Women's Soccer (69.3%)
Women's Golf (41.3%)
Softball (25.6%)
Women's Indoor Track (23.3%)
Women's Lacrosse (21.4%)
Women's Outdoor Track (18.4%)
Women's Rowing (17.9%)

Title IX overall has been an agent for very positive change. But it’s rigid numbers based application has had its drawbacks.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - TrumpCard - 12-03-2021

(12-01-2021, 02:55 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/r6htdo/?utm_content=body&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=ff11342cd85d4087add62d0b15d9ae7e&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=r6htdo

When Texas is paying athletes 100k per year, including for WVB, what is Stanford gonna do?

This is the mess the NCAA has created by not making athletes employees and capping compensation. It's now the WILD Wild West, with no regulations, and a total free for all. It's like the Lord of the Flies now.

I'm getting more turned off college sports every day and my passion for it is almost gone.

I recognize that Stanford will do worse once universities will have to compete on the open market for talent (just like every other industry), but I can't convince myself that trend is bad. Now at least the talent at schools that exploit student athletes will collect more of the proceeds of their labor. And yes Stanford may win fewer sports competitions. But maybe Stanford will accept the next unicorn company founder instead of the next really great volleyball player. As a fan of Stanford sports, is it bad that I think that outcome might be the most socially beneficial one?

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - 2006alum - 12-03-2021

Isn't the elephant in the room here football? Basically every other NCAA sport (except wrestling) has men's and women's equivalents. If you subtract football and its 70-90 scholarships, you could save a men's tennis team, wrestling team, gymnastics team, and swimming team right there, probably with many athletes to spare.

So alternatively, I guess the question is: if you want to save football instead of all those other sports, what's a sport that requires a lot of personnel that would be of interest to women? The closest I can think of is crew, since you can (wo)man a lot of boats. Indeed, during my time on the Farm, I was of the impression that the women's crew team was one of the few teams you could walk onto as a frosh and end up with a scholarship by the end of your senior year, because it was one of the offset sports for football, and it didn't require a whole lot of intrinsic skill or years of training. (Maybe that's changed?)

One other thing to note, too: until roughly my generation (late Gen X, early millennial), it was not common for girls to grow up playing school sports at the same rate as boys. Beginning in the late 70s and early 80s, girls sports exploded. It's natural that those sports would be growth areas for colleges. While I agree, to some extent, it's unfortunate it comes at the expense of some men's sports, I do think we should keep in mind how much football is the cause of a lot of these disparities.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - 76lsjumb - 12-03-2021

(12-03-2021, 12:24 PM)TrumpCard Wrote:
(12-01-2021, 02:55 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/r6htdo/?utm_content=body&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=ff11342cd85d4087add62d0b15d9ae7e&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=r6htdo

When Texas is paying athletes 100k per year, including for WVB, what is Stanford gonna do?

This is the mess the NCAA has created by not making athletes employees and capping compensation. It's now the WILD Wild West, with no regulations, and a total free for all. It's like the Lord of the Flies now.

I'm getting more turned off college sports every day and my passion for it is almost gone.

I recognize that Stanford will do worse once universities will have to compete on the open market for talent (just like every other industry), but I can't convince myself that trend is bad. Now at least the talent at schools that exploit student athletes will collect more of the proceeds of their labor. And yes Stanford may win fewer sports competitions. But maybe Stanford will accept the next unicorn company founder instead of the next really great volleyball player. As a fan of Stanford sports, is it bad that I think that outcome might be the most socially beneficial one?

Because we'd be better off with more Elizabeth Holmes's and fewer Meghan McClures?

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - M T - 12-03-2021

(12-03-2021, 12:51 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: Because we'd be better off with more Elizabeth Holmes's and fewer Meghan McClures?

Or more Peter Thiel's than Brock Turner's.
Cherry picking can go both ways.

Obviously other potential students are turned away so athletes can be admitted. Whether there is a benefit to society (and Stanford) for that prioritization is unclear to me, but it is something that can be considered. If Stanford values only the financial benefit to the university of its students (both short term income (or loss) from tuition & sports or long term donations from alumni), then it can be measured or at least estimated.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - dabigv13 - 12-03-2021

Peter Thiel has been a far greater negative to the world than Elizabeth Holmes and Brock Turner combined, IMHO. But we probably shouldn't really go down that road.

I think once things settle out, there probably won't be a ton of NIL money out there for non football/basketball players. I think the Stanford degree will still be a very big draw and think it will be rare for us to lose a recruit for NIL money in say volleyball or soccer.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - Phogge - 12-03-2021

I will look up Peter Thiel as I don't know the name. If SC's move works forget about competing for the Pac 12 championship unless your institution is willing to go to war. The saving grace from this non Silicon Valley peon would seem to be to get a couple of billionaires not named Arriga to superfund the football roster. Cash payments to sweep up the office, appear at yearly shareholder meetings, sign autographs at grandchildren's birthday parties. Get creative, SC has.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - Maple Leaf - 12-03-2021

If the return on investment, that is a national championship(s) does not materialize in a timely manner (3 years or less) the natives at SC, UT, LSU and other places of high ed. will be more than restless. What happens if the investors of NIL pull their $$$ support and some college QB at Big Money U does not get enough coins to make Lamborghini payments? Or if the QB misses a wide-open TE in the endzone costing Big Money U a national championship or even a conference champion or even a victory over Kal? This NIL may end up hurting the student athletes that it was intended to benefit. The current Free Agency (transfer portal) combined with not having to sit out a year has become a challenge for even the factory schools but can be a benefit for the players. The direction of all of this is a throwback to the old days of the Southwest Conference "what rules, we don't need no stinken rules", "just win Bubba, just win and your will be taken care of".

My Labrador Retriever does not care about any of this so why worry.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - Phogge - 12-03-2021

In time the funders will be telling the coach when to pull the underperforming QB. If they are willing to be paid the kids should be held accountable for their play... just like in the NFL. It's going to be fun watching college football fall apart from within. In the meantime I'll be watching Army and Navy on Channel 158 on DISH.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - DC 86 - 12-03-2021

Quinn Ewers in the transfer portal for those who've been following his story (reclassified and graduated a year early due to Texas's restrictive NIL rules for high schoolers, decommitted from Texas to go to Ohio State, played two snaps, headed back to Texas now it appears.)

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - JustAnotherFan - 12-03-2021

(12-03-2021, 02:21 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: Peter Thiel has been a far greater negative to the world than Elizabeth Holmes and Brock Turner combined, IMHO. But we probably shouldn't really go down that road.

I think once things settle out, there probably won't be a ton of NIL money out there for non football/basketball players. I think the Stanford degree will still be a very big draw and think it will be rare for us to lose a recruit for NIL money in say volleyball or soccer.

If we could still rate posts I'd give this a plus 1.

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - OutsiderFan - 12-06-2021

How long is Texas going to have this competitive advantage?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/hornswithheart/status/1467931858528841747?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1467931858528841747%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=[/tweet]

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - 82lsju - 12-06-2021

(12-03-2021, 07:08 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Quinn Ewers in the transfer portal for those who've been following his story (reclassified and graduated a year early due to Texas's restrictive NIL rules for high schoolers, decommitted from Texas to go to Ohio State, played two snaps, headed back to Texas now it appears.)

so he reclassifies to enroll at Ohio State during training camp to exploit NIL revenue streams, stays in Columbus for a semester and now is headed back to Texas, I wonder how much he made in those few months....

RE: The beginning of the end for college sports. - DC 86 - 12-06-2021

(12-06-2021, 02:05 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(12-03-2021, 07:08 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Quinn Ewers in the transfer portal for those who've been following his story (reclassified and graduated a year early due to Texas's restrictive NIL rules for high schoolers, decommitted from Texas to go to Ohio State, played two snaps, headed back to Texas now it appears.)

so he reclassifies to enroll at Ohio State during training camp to exploit NIL revenue streams, stays in Columbus for a semester and now is headed back to Texas, I wonder how much he made in those few months....

He signed multiple NIL deals including one with GT Sports Marketing for $1.4 million over three years. Of course those deals presumably would have been available this upcoming year too so he simply got a head start, but better to lock earnings in while you can, before an injury or loss of luster.