Outside Topic Being Harbaugh - Printable Version
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RE: Being Harbaugh - Papa John - 12-29-2021
I arrived at Stanford in 1980, so I missed the Schonert-Elway competition. Of course I remember Elway's rocket arm, but I was really amazed by his ability to extend plays, often in very circuitous, creative ways.
RE: lex24 - gailtate - 12-29-2021
(12-29-2021, 01:56 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(12-29-2021, 01:17 PM)gailtate Wrote:(12-29-2021, 11:23 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-29-2021, 11:03 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(12-29-2021, 09:21 AM)gailtate Wrote: In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.
Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.
Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.
I was there that night. I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower. First one went to about the 5. They asked him to throw it deeper. Next one went to about goal line. They asked him to throw it deeper. Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot. Fassel asked: “is that deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal. But a good story.
(12-29-2021, 11:13 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(12-29-2021, 09:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used? Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?
He was the top recruit in the country. He only played half a season as a senior in high school but he was still selected as Parade Magazine's first team All America (Dan Marino was second team).
Yep. John Robinson coached him in an all star game. Said he was the best high school QB he’d ever seen. He was far from alone in that opinion. Heck, one coach that recruited him said he slept with his mother, and still couldn’t get him.:).
(12-29-2021, 10:02 AM)gailtate Wrote:(12-29-2021, 09:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used? Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?
I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.
USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???
Heck, can you imagine what Elway and Stanford could have done if Walsh stayed? I wish…..
And what if Walsh had recruited Allen?! One thing for certain: Even w/o MA, the losses to USC in 1980-82 would have been nail-biters, not thumpings. Maybe 2-1, Stanford. And in '79, had Walsh started Elway over Schonert (uncertain), Stanford may well have pulled it out. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, but fun to consider.
It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.
Yes," it would have been tough" but the context of the comment was that 'if Walsh had stayed at Stanford and not bolted back to the NFL after the '78 season'. So, had Walsh NOT left and was there for the 1979 game...you get it now??
RE: lex24 - qwerty49 - 12-30-2021
(12-29-2021, 02:31 PM)Embo Wrote:(12-29-2021, 01:56 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote: It would have been tough for Walsh to start Elway over Schonert in '79 because Walsh wasn't the coach. I remember Dowhower giving both Schonert and Elway playing time in 1979, but I don't remember Elway's perfomance being that superior to Schonert's. It's been awhile though.
Dowhower did platoon Schonert (may he rest in peace) and Elway from the very start of the season. They were neck in neck, and Elway may have taken a lead vs UCLA in the old lady. He led Stanford down the field with less than a minute to go to give Ken Naber the chance for the 59 yard winning FG. Afterwards, UCLA HC Terry Donahue said, "He's not a good quarterback, he's a great quarterback". Donahue recruited Elway hard, but Elway told him they didn't throw enough. Donahue promised he would change if Elway committed.
The following week was the epic 21-21 tie vs USC (one of the greatest teams even, with White, Lott, Munoz). Elway did throw an interception in the first half, and the halftime score was 21-0. Schonert had an epic second half, and he unquestionably earned the starting position from that point.
(12-29-2021, 02:22 PM)lex24 Wrote: I went to practices in those days. I still remember the first time I saw Elway. They were having receivers run go routes. Schonert threw nice 40 yard passes. Looped a bit as you’d expect. Elway threw 40 yard rockets. The railbirds gasped.
Hey lex,
I've told this story before on the old Bootleg board. I bet you were there too: It was the 1980 Big Game in Memorial. I was seated on the shady side, south end of stadium maybe 10 yard line. Stanford had the ball on their own 20, north end. Elway went back to pass, had a heavy pass rush, and ran back towards his own end zone. He juked right, then juked left, making a big U turn in the end zone. From where I sat, I saw Ken Margerum running a go route down the east sideline - and kept running. I saw him out of the corner of my eye approaching the cal 20 and thought, "Oh man, if Elway could just see him - but he can't throw it that far." Turned out I was wrong - Elway did see him, and launched it. It went 80 yards with practically no arc. Margerum couldn't catch it, and even if he did, he would have been out of bounds. But the entire stadium - Red and Blue - let out this collective "Whoa!!" as if to ask - did a human being actually do that?
And the SC game in the Old Lady where I think our lone score in the first half came with Elway scrambling for his life, reversing field at least once and launching a 60 yd howitzer to Margerum in the end zone. The ball was in the air for an eternity and I remember watching Ronnie Lott roaring across the field to just plaster Margerum but Kenny held onto the ball. That clip used to be on YouTube but I can't seem to find it anymore.
RE: lex24 - 82lsju - 12-30-2021
(12-30-2021, 02:16 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: And the SC game in the Old Lady where I think our lone score in the first half came with Elway scrambling for his life, reversing field at least once and launching a 60 yd howitzer to Margerum in the end zone. The ball was in the air for an eternity and I remember watching Ronnie Lott roaring across the field to just plaster Margerum but Kenny held onto the ball. That clip used to be on YouTube but I can't seem to find it anymore.
you can see that play at the end of this short video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJCZGc1ZaSw
RE: lex24 - Goose - 12-30-2021
(12-30-2021, 03:57 PM)82lsju Wrote:Lott talks about that play. He said that they let Margerum go because they were coached to only cover as far as a human could throw the ball. Deeper than that just took them out of the play, so they should break off and go no deeper.(12-30-2021, 02:16 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: And the SC game in the Old Lady where I think our lone score in the first half came with Elway scrambling for his life, reversing field at least once and launching a 60 yd howitzer to Margerum in the end zone. The ball was in the air for an eternity and I remember watching Ronnie Lott roaring across the field to just plaster Margerum but Kenny held onto the ball. That clip used to be on YouTube but I can't seem to find it anymore.
you can see that play at the end of this short video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJCZGc1ZaSw
RE: Being Harbaugh - Mick - 12-30-2021
(12-29-2021, 10:02 AM)gailtate Wrote:(12-29-2021, 09:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used? Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?
I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.
USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???
And Charles White. And with future + year career NFL linemen Bruce Matthews, Don Mosebar, Anthony Munoz, Chris Foote, Keith Van Horne and Roy Foster blocking...and Brad Budde, 7 years in the NFL, Kelly Thomas 5 years in the NFL. And Hoby Brenner at TE.
(12-29-2021, 11:23 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-29-2021, 11:03 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(12-29-2021, 09:21 AM)gailtate Wrote: In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.
Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.
Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.
I was there that night. I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower. First one went to about the 5. They asked him to throw it deeper. Next one went to about goal line. They asked him to throw it deeper. Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot. Fassel asked: “is that deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal. But a good story.
https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/Pigskin-Flashback-1980s-The-Throw-104933321/
lex24 - lex24 - 12-30-2021
(12-30-2021, 04:57 PM)Mick Wrote:(12-29-2021, 10:02 AM)gailtate Wrote:(12-29-2021, 09:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If anyone has any idea, when John Elway was recruited from High School, how would he have been ranked if today's prospect scouting and recruit ranking systems were used? Would he have been a 5 star or a 4 star?
I assume he had offers from all over the country, but I don't know that for sure and am curious to know what his recruitment was like.
USC really wanted him and he almost went there. Can you imagine a backfield of Elway and Marcus Allen???
And Charles White. And with future + year career NFL linemen Bruce Matthews, Don Mosebar, Anthony Munoz, Chris Foote, Keith Van Horne and Roy Foster blocking...and Brad Budde, 7 years in the NFL, Kelly Thomas 5 years in the NFL. And Hoby Brenner at TE.
(12-29-2021, 11:23 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-29-2021, 11:03 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(12-29-2021, 09:21 AM)gailtate Wrote: In reality, John Elway's "coach" was his dad. I doubt that anyone on Wiggin's staff, including Jim Fassel, could ever help him.
Elway lobbied for Fassel to be hired as the Broncos OC and always credited him as a major influence on his development, so I'm pretty sure that Elway felt that Fassel had helped him a lot at Stanford.
Fassel was also his presenter when Elway was inducted into the Stanford Athletics Hall of Fame.
I was there that night. I remember Fassel telling the story of Elway throwing kickoffs for the return team. They were at Fort Dohower. First one went to about the 5. They asked him to throw it deeper. Next one went to about goal line. They asked him to throw it deeper. Next one sailed through the goalpost and into the parking lot. Fassel asked: “is that deep enough?” Maybe apocryphal. But a good story.
https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Article/Pigskin-Flashback-1980s-The-Throw-104933321/
Was Jim Rutter one of the original Bootleg members. I mean the newsletter, which was fricking hilarious, not the website.
RE: lex24 - 82lsju - 12-30-2021
(12-30-2021, 05:10 PM)lex24 Wrote: Was Jim Rutter one of the original Bootleg members. I mean the newsletter, which was fricking hilarious, not the website.
yes.
RE: Being Harbaugh - BobK - 12-30-2021
Jim Rutter and Lars Alstrom founded the Bootleg. The fax was funny informative and awesome
RE: Being Harbaugh - TrumpCard - 01-04-2022
Reports are that Harbaugh is interested in a move back to the NFL. My commentary is that he wanted to prove he could take Michigan to the CFP and then was ready to move on. Being Harbaugh means being so ambitious that he's tired of something as soon as he achieves a goal. Hey, no complaints, he took Stanford football to new heights. I just wouldn't want that type of life for me.
https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2022/01/michigans-jim-harbaugh-interested-in-returning-to-nfl-report-says.html
RE: Being Harbaugh - BostonCard - 01-04-2022
Maybe he will take the Kansas job. Certainly would get the challenge.
Also, it might just be posturing to get his contract renegotiated. Or, maybe he's ready to give the NFL another shot. I always assumed he won't be satisfied until he wins a SB.
BC
lex24 - lex24 - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 06:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Maybe he will take the Kansas job. Certainly would get the challenge.
Also, it might just be posturing to get his contract renegotiated. Or, maybe he's ready to give the NFL another shot. I always assumed he won't be satisfied until he wins a SB.
BC
Remember, they cut his salary prior to ‘21. He couldn’t be happy about that.
RE: Being Harbaugh - Goose - 01-04-2022
(01-04-2022, 06:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Also, it might just be posturing to get his contract renegotiated. Or, maybe he's ready to give the NFL another shot. I always assumed he won't be satisfied until he wins a SB.I think it may be a double gambit. If he gets an NFL offer from a team he believes he can turn into a winner and a big 5 year guaranteed contract to do so, he takes it. If no such offer is forthcoming he uses the leverage to re-negotiate his current contract to at the very least restore his salary and his buyout. I think JH is fully aware that next year is going to be a very difficult one for Michigan and it would be great for his "legacy" if he could honorably step away before that happens. If that isn't possible, he can at least fortify his contractual position so that he can have a few years to show his merits. Expectations at Michigan are now at an all-time high. Even a "good" year next year will be viewed negatively. In a couple of years JH may have a team that can win it all, but not next year.
BC
RE: Being Harbaugh - teejers1 - 01-04-2022
(12-30-2021, 06:43 PM)BobK Wrote: Jim Rutter and Lars Alstrom founded the Bootleg. The fax was funny informative and awesome
Terry and I - colleagues back in the day (though he was corner office partner and I a mere drone) - used to eagerly await as our faxes burned off the machine on Friday mornings during football season. We would clutch the "hot off the presses" weekly treasure, scurry back to our office, and proceed to devour the content, guffawing out loud very often. Then we would reconvene in Terry's office to discuss the most humorous/profound lines from that week's edition (which decidedly did NOT include "Poetry Corner"). It was not just the iconic lines ("Hand me the Sears Cup, I think I'm going to be sick!"), but the little things - the constant alliteration, the player nicknames borrowed from pop culture, and the "trademarking" of phrases or characterizations, replete with the little tm logo at the end of the phrase. They even used that for "The Stare" - the glare Willingham would employ to absolutely freeze one of his players in fear after a screw up, without the need for Willingham to utter a word. (The one that stands out was when Marlon "That Girl" Evans made a blunder - a penalty or fumbled punt or something - that led directly to an opponent's TD. Then The Stare. Then Evans, trying to make amends for fear of imminent death from The Stare, returned the ensuing kickoff 95+ yards for a TD to help Stanford pull off the upset (against Oregon?).
OMG, good memories. Marlon "That Girl" Evans still makes me chuckle (and probably is only understood by real old-timers who watched a certain sitcom in 1970s).
RE: Being Harbaugh - gailtate - 01-05-2022
(01-04-2022, 11:20 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-30-2021, 06:43 PM)BobK Wrote: Jim Rutter and Lars Alstrom founded the Bootleg. The fax was funny informative and awesome
Terry and I - colleagues back in the day (though he was corner office partner and I a mere drone) - used to eagerly await as our faxes burned off the machine on Friday mornings during football season. We would clutch the "hot off the presses" weekly treasure, scurry back to our office, and proceed to devour the content, guffawing out loud very often. Then we would reconvene in Terry's office to discuss the most humorous/profound lines from that week's edition (which decidedly did NOT include "Poetry Corner"). It was not just the iconic lines ("Hand me the Sears Cup, I think I'm going to be sick!"), but the little things - the constant alliteration, the player nicknames borrowed from pop culture, and the "trademarking" of phrases or characterizations, replete with the little tm logo at the end of the phrase. They even used that for "The Stare" - the glare Willingham would employ to absolutely freeze one of his players in fear after a screw up, without the need for Willingham to utter a word. (The one that stands out was when Marlon "That Girl" Evans made a blunder - a penalty or fumbled punt or something - that led directly to an opponent's TD. Then The Stare. Then Evans, trying to make amends for fear of imminent death from The Stare, returned the ensuing kickoff 95+ yards for a TD to help Stanford pull off the upset (against Oregon?).
OMG, good memories. Marlon "That Girl" Evans still makes me chuckle (and probably is only understood by real old-timers who watched a certain sitcom in 1970s).
Don't sell yourself short. I looked at "Poetry Corner" first! The Todd Bozeman piece had me laughing all day.
RE: Being Harbaugh - JustAnotherFan - 01-05-2022
(01-04-2022, 04:49 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Reports are that Harbaugh is interested in a move back to the NFL. My commentary is that he wanted to prove he could take Michigan to the CFP and then was ready to move on. Being Harbaugh means being so ambitious that he's tired of something as soon as he achieves a goal. Hey, no complaints, he took Stanford football to new heights. I just wouldn't want that type of life for me.
https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2022/01/michigans-jim-harbaugh-interested-in-returning-to-nfl-report-says.html
Quote:
Of course, the timing of this all is interesting. Harbaugh just concluded Year 1 of a restructured five-year contract at Michigan, one that slashed his pay considerably (to $4 million in 2021) and made him one of the lowest-paid head coaches in the Big Ten.
Fascinating. I imagine if he leaves that those who entertained the contract restructuring may not be the most appreciated people in the room.
RE: Being Harbaugh - cardcrimson - 01-05-2022
(01-05-2022, 10:47 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:The base salary was significantly reduced, though the contract was ladened with bonuses, many he earned this year. Interestingly, Harbaugh "donated" the money to those in the Michigan Athletic Department that lost income because of Covid. . . .(01-04-2022, 04:49 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Reports are that Harbaugh is interested in a move back to the NFL. My commentary is that he wanted to prove he could take Michigan to the CFP and then was ready to move on. Being Harbaugh means being so ambitious that he's tired of something as soon as he achieves a goal. Hey, no complaints, he took Stanford football to new heights. I just wouldn't want that type of life for me.
https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2022/01/michigans-jim-harbaugh-interested-in-returning-to-nfl-report-says.html
Quote:
Of course, the timing of this all is interesting. Harbaugh just concluded Year 1 of a restructured five-year contract at Michigan, one that slashed his pay considerably (to $4 million in 2021) and made him one of the lowest-paid head coaches in the Big Ten.
Fascinating. I imagine if he leaves that those who entertained the contract restructuring may not be the most appreciated people in the room.
RE: Being Harbaugh - Goose - 01-05-2022
(01-05-2022, 11:19 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: The base salary was significantly reduced, though the contract was ladened with bonuses, many he earned this year. Interestingly, Harbaugh "donated" the money to those in the Michigan Athletic Department that lost income because of Covid. . . .Indeed he did, and even in so far as he did gain public relations benefits from this, it was a generous action on his part.
RE: Being Harbaugh - vataha - 01-05-2022
"We smoke these guys!"
RE: Being Harbaugh - slide - 01-05-2022
"Row B Notes"