Hall of Fame - Printable Version

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RE: Hall of Fame - DC 86 - 01-27-2022

(01-27-2022, 01:16 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: Re: Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose. They are still on the MLB list of people banned from the game. The BBWAA and the Veterans Committee has said that they will not consider anyone on the Banned List. So it is a moot point to discuss their cases unless/until they are reinstated by MLB.

Yes, but the HoF is a separate entity, they could change their policy re inducting players banned by MLB if they wished. Not that I'm advocating for that, but it's only incumbent on MLB to reinstate them because the HoF has instituted that policy re eligibility.

(01-27-2022, 01:16 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: All of the steroid era players are eligible. They have never been accused as far as I know of violating any MLB rules with regard to PEDs.

A-Rod and Manny Ramirez were suspended multiple times for violation of MLB's PED policies. They aren't on the banned list but they definitely violated the explicit rules put in place in 2003.

RE: Hall of Fame - Phogge - 01-27-2022

The only golfer I had trouble with was Tom Watson and it was my soundman's problem, LOL. Serial Bimbology the reason I don't like Tiger. He was great for the game, although a lout, but why aren't there more African Americans on tour? The First Tee is doing what they can in The City with a classroom and cage at the GGP nine holer, a practice range at Harding and a chip and putt area in the Vis Valley. Pandemic has hurt them. I root for Harold Varner who usually jumps out with a good opening round but then caves. I think he will win one down the line.

RE: Hall of Fame - gailtate - 01-27-2022

A lot about sports at the higher levels comes down to "I just don't like that guy." And I say that about a lot of guys in and out of sports. I also say this: Use of PEDs is brazen cheating on a scale Unknown To Mankind. That's why I have no use for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa.Or the D-bags on the Houston Astros, including Stanford's own AJ Hinch. It has nothing to do with "character", Bud Selig's hypocrisy or all the other red herrings flopping around in these discussions. It has to do with knowingly using a competitive, biological advantage so you can reign supreme. EFF every one of those frauds. Esp. Bonds, who finally one-upped McGwire. What a profound accomplishment.

RE: Hall of Fame - winflop - 01-27-2022

I for one am glad that none of the roiders looks to be getting into the HOF.

Doubly so for Bonds, with whom a member of my extended family had a pretty horrible experience as a kid.

lex24 - lex24 - 01-27-2022

[quote="gailtate" pid='342720' dateline='1643327448']
A lot about sports at the higher levels comes down to "I just don't like that guy." And I say that about a lot of guys in and out of sports. I also say this: Use of PEDs is brazen cheating on a scale Unknown To Mankind. That's why I have no use for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa.Or the D-bags on the Houston Astros, including Stanford's own AJ Hinch. It has nothing to do with "character", Bud Selig's hypocrisy or all the other red herrings flopping around in these discussions. It has to do with knowingly using a competitive, biological advantage so you can reign supreme. EFF every one of those frauds. Esp. Bonds, who finally one-upped McGwire. What a profound accomplishment.
[/quote

I bet half of baseball was on PEDs in the 90’s. Or more. In the 70s it was greenies.

I suspect that there are still a solid percentage of baseball players using PEDS today. Even higher in football and track and field. Better masking agents, stay one step ahead. Athletes are always looking for an edge.

Gaylord Perry is a favorite of mine. Is he in the HOF without his spitter - and the way he used it, both by throwing his “super sinker” and that marvelous routine he’d go through before every pitch?

As for the Astros, stealing signs is older than the hills. The ‘51 Giants allegedly had a guy with binoculars in the scoreboard who would relay pitches. Teams playing the Astros had an idea of what was going on. But Bob Gibson types don’t exist these days. He would have had his catcher call a slider away and drilled the guy with a 95 MPH fastball in the ribs. That would have ended their little ploy.

Baseball has had cheating forever. It’s part of the game.

RE: lex24 - Mick - 01-28-2022

(01-27-2022, 08:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: [quote="gailtate" pid='342720' dateline='1643327448']
A lot about sports at the higher levels comes down to "I just don't like that guy." And I say that about a lot of guys in and out of sports. I also say this: Use of PEDs is brazen cheating on a scale Unknown To Mankind. That's why I have no use for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa.Or the D-bags on the Houston Astros, including Stanford's own AJ Hinch. It has nothing to do with "character", Bud Selig's hypocrisy or all the other red herrings flopping around in these discussions. It has to do with knowingly using a competitive, biological advantage so you can reign supreme. EFF every one of those frauds. Esp. Bonds, who finally one-upped McGwire. What a profound accomplishment.
[/quote

I bet half of baseball was on PEDs in the 90’s. Or more. In the 70s it was greenies.

I suspect that there are still a solid percentage of baseball players using PEDS today. Even higher in football and track and field. Better masking agents, stay one step ahead. Athletes are always looking for an edge.

Gaylord Perry is a favorite of mine. Is he in the HOF without his spitter - and the way he used it, both by throwing his “super sinker” and that marvelous routine he’d go through before every pitch?

As for the Astros, stealing signs is older than the hills. The ‘51 Giants allegedly had a guy with binoculars in the scoreboard who would relay pitches. Teams playing the Astros had an idea of what was going on. But Bob Gibson types don’t exist these days. He would have had his catcher call a slider away and drilled the guy with a 95 MPH fastball in the ribs. That would have ended their little ploy.

Baseball has had cheating forever. It’s part of the game.

+1.

And I must say that I will never, ever visit the Hall of Really Swell Guys Who Never Did Anything Wrong That We Could Prove Or Care About And Played Baseball Well But More Importantly Who I Really Liked in Cooperstown. Especially when the HoRSGWNDAWTWCPOCAAPBWBMIWIRL includes memorabilia from players that they have banned, the very height of rancid hypocrisy, in my eyes. If you want to ban them, fine. Why have their bats, balls, gloves, uniforms, etc. in the Hall?

RE: lex24 - teejers1 - 01-28-2022

(01-27-2022, 08:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: [quote="gailtate" pid='342720' dateline='1643327448']
A lot about sports at the higher levels comes down to "I just don't like that guy." And I say that about a lot of guys in and out of sports. I also say this: Use of PEDs is brazen cheating on a scale Unknown To Mankind. That's why I have no use for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa.Or the D-bags on the Houston Astros, including Stanford's own AJ Hinch. It has nothing to do with "character", Bud Selig's hypocrisy or all the other red herrings flopping around in these discussions. It has to do with knowingly using a competitive, biological advantage so you can reign supreme. EFF every one of those frauds. Esp. Bonds, who finally one-upped McGwire. What a profound accomplishment.
[/quote

I bet half of baseball was on PEDs in the 90’s. Or more. In the 70s it was greenies.

I suspect that there are still a solid percentage of baseball players using PEDS today. Even higher in football and track and field. Better masking agents, stay one step ahead. Athletes are always looking for an edge.

Gaylord Perry is a favorite of mine. Is he in the HOF without his spitter - and the way he used it, both by throwing his “super sinker” and that marvelous routine he’d go through before every pitch?

As for the Astros, stealing signs is older than the hills. The ‘51 Giants allegedly had a guy with binoculars in the scoreboard who would relay pitches. Teams playing the Astros had an idea of what was going on. But Bob Gibson types don’t exist these days. He would have had his catcher call a slider away and drilled the guy with a 95 MPH fastball in the ribs. That would have ended their little ploy.

Baseball has had cheating forever. It’s part of the game.

There's cheating and there's cheating.

PEDs are way beyond the pale of "acceptable" cheating for this reason alone: they make a mockery of the record books by physically enhancing a player's strength, recovery, quick-twitch, what have you. Remember when 500 HRs meant something and only the all-timers reached that climbed that magical mountain? It's become a diluted accomplishment now, thanks to rampant PED usage.

Uppers . . . well, that's a mixed bag in terms of "helping."

As for stealing signs, it's one thing for players on the field/in the dugout to catch them or a tell or what have you; but using cameras and electronic signaling is also beyond the pale.

And putting foreign substances on the ball should be (and is) banned. And I think enforcement has been pretty good, despite early shows of protest by the likes of Sergio Romo. It's good to root out that kind of beyond-the-pale cheating.

I agree that PEDs are likely still in use and that detection lags catching users. But you have to try and eliminate them whatever way you can.

RE: lex24 - BillBradley - 01-28-2022

(01-28-2022, 12:01 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(01-27-2022, 08:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: [quote="gailtate" pid='342720' dateline='1643327448']
A lot about sports at the higher levels comes down to "I just don't like that guy." And I say that about a lot of guys in and out of sports. I also say this: Use of PEDs is brazen cheating on a scale Unknown To Mankind. That's why I have no use for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa.Or the D-bags on the Houston Astros, including Stanford's own AJ Hinch. It has nothing to do with "character", Bud Selig's hypocrisy or all the other red herrings flopping around in these discussions. It has to do with knowingly using a competitive, biological advantage so you can reign supreme. EFF every one of those frauds. Esp. Bonds, who finally one-upped McGwire. What a profound accomplishment.
[/quote

I bet half of baseball was on PEDs in the 90’s. Or more. In the 70s it was greenies.

I suspect that there are still a solid percentage of baseball players using PEDS today. Even higher in football and track and field. Better masking agents, stay one step ahead. Athletes are always looking for an edge.

Gaylord Perry is a favorite of mine. Is he in the HOF without his spitter - and the way he used it, both by throwing his “super sinker” and that marvelous routine he’d go through before every pitch?

As for the Astros, stealing signs is older than the hills. The ‘51 Giants allegedly had a guy with binoculars in the scoreboard who would relay pitches. Teams playing the Astros had an idea of what was going on. But Bob Gibson types don’t exist these days. He would have had his catcher call a slider away and drilled the guy with a 95 MPH fastball in the ribs. That would have ended their little ploy.

Baseball has had cheating forever. It’s part of the game.

There's cheating and there's cheating.

PEDs are way beyond the pale of "acceptable" cheating for this reason alone: they make a mockery of the record books by physically enhancing a player's strength, recovery, quick-twitch, what have you. Remember when 500 HRs meant something and only the all-timers reached that climbed that magical mountain? It's become a diluted accomplishment now, thanks to rampant PED usage.

Uppers . . . well, that's a mixed bag in terms of "helping."

As for stealing signs, it's one thing for players on the field/in the dugout to catch them or a tell or what have you; but using cameras and electronic signaling is also beyond the pale.

And putting foreign substances on the ball should be (and is) banned. And I think enforcement has been pretty good, despite early shows of protest by the likes of Sergio Romo. It's good to root out that kind of beyond-the-pale cheating.

I agree that PEDs are likely still in use and that detection lags catching users. But you have to try and eliminate them whatever way you can.

I don't know...my whole issue with this nonsense is the stuff @Mick and @Lex24 posted. It's too unclear what the Hall actually stands for. Clearly MLB has made it's point that it doesn't stand for "throwing games" and that kind of cheating. That's why Shoeless and Rose have been banned from baseball and have thus never even been on a ballot. But MLB hasn't banned the PED guys or the spitballers or the bad character guys, so why all of a sudden do the sportswriters or the fans like us even debate what's (to use Teejers words) "beyond acceptable"? MLB has already told us it's acceptable behavior for the HOF or they would have banned them. And then to have this back door process in place of "well, the sportswriters didn't vote them in, but after 10 times maybe this other group will" - who makes this stuff up? Of course Bonds and Clemens are going to get in when actual players vote in December. It's just so silly.

RE: lex24 - Mick - 01-28-2022

(01-27-2022, 08:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: As for the Astros, stealing signs is older than the hills. The ‘51 Giants allegedly had a guy with binoculars in the scoreboard who would relay pitches. Teams playing the Astros had an idea of what was going on. But Bob Gibson types don’t exist these days. He would have had his catcher call a slider away and drilled the guy with a 95 MPH fastball in the ribs. That would have ended their little ploy.

Baseball has had cheating forever. It’s part of the game.

When Mays was at bat, he used to steal a glance at the catcher to determine both positioning and signs. He didn't do it against Gibson and Drysdale, and probably others who would dust him off. But he did it and admitted to it. And yes, pitchers from back then to today will drill batters whom they suspect of cheating in this fashion.

RE: lex24 - cardcrimson - 01-28-2022

(01-28-2022, 11:57 AM)Mick Wrote:
(01-27-2022, 08:13 PM)lex24 Wrote: [quote="gailtate" pid='342720' dateline='1643327448']
A lot about sports at the higher levels comes down to "I just don't like that guy." And I say that about a lot of guys in and out of sports. I also say this: Use of PEDs is brazen cheating on a scale Unknown To Mankind. That's why I have no use for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire or Sosa.Or the D-bags on the Houston Astros, including Stanford's own AJ Hinch. It has nothing to do with "character", Bud Selig's hypocrisy or all the other red herrings flopping around in these discussions. It has to do with knowingly using a competitive, biological advantage so you can reign supreme. EFF every one of those frauds. Esp. Bonds, who finally one-upped McGwire. What a profound accomplishment.
[/quote

I bet half of baseball was on PEDs in the 90’s. Or more. In the 70s it was greenies.

I suspect that there are still a solid percentage of baseball players using PEDS today. Even higher in football and track and field. Better masking agents, stay one step ahead. Athletes are always looking for an edge.

Gaylord Perry is a favorite of mine. Is he in the HOF without his spitter - and the way he used it, both by throwing his “super sinker” and that marvelous routine he’d go through before every pitch?

As for the Astros, stealing signs is older than the hills. The ‘51 Giants allegedly had a guy with binoculars in the scoreboard who would relay pitches. Teams playing the Astros had an idea of what was going on. But Bob Gibson types don’t exist these days. He would have had his catcher call a slider away and drilled the guy with a 95 MPH fastball in the ribs. That would have ended their little ploy.

Baseball has had cheating forever. It’s part of the game.

+1.

And I must say that I will never, ever visit the Hall of Really Swell Guys Who Never Did Anything Wrong That We Could Prove Or Care About And Played Baseball Well But More Importantly Who I Really Liked in Cooperstown. Especially when the HoRSGWNDAWTWCPOCAAPBWBMIWIRL includes memorabilia from players that they have banned, the very height of rancid hypocrisy, in my eyes. If you want to ban them, fine. Why have their bats, balls, gloves, uniforms, etc. in the Hall?

Shouldn't there be an IC at the end of your acronym?