Stanford in the Winter Olympics - Printable Version
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RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - cardcrimson - 02-05-2022
Guess once again I'm the outlier here. For me, it's all about the athletes. They've put so much effort into preparing and training, they deserve my attention whether they're American or not. Probably my most memorable Olympic event on TV was watching Franz Klammer at Innsbrook in the '76 games. USA Hockey in 1980 was fun, as were Sarah Hughes, Bob Beamon, Dave Waddle and many more unexpected champions. Katarina Witt was always fun to watch, but I digress.
As an ME, we didn't have many opportunities to take micks at Stanford, but I did get in a few. One was on the ancient Olympics. One memorable thing from the class was the tradition of ékécheiria guaranteeing the safe transit of athletes going to and from the games. A truce was also called during the ancient games. . . .Truly remarkable concepts that we could learn from today. Athletes before politics. . . .
On another note, I was at Stanford in '80 when Carter boycotted the Russian Olympics. All that did was hurt the athletes, several who were at Stanford at the time. One of the worst decisions of his presidency.
Boycott these games, nope, though I'm less interested this year. The athletes deserve what little attention I can give them.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - BostonCard - 02-05-2022
I think a substantial portion of people feel as you do cardcrimson, and it is a very legitimate opinion. In some ways, it would be nice if the Olympics were apolitical like that, and that every four years we would put away our differences temporarily for sport, kind of like the Christmas truce of 1914 during World War I. The Olympics can be a reminder of what unifies us.
That being said, I personally find it hard to view the Olympics as apolitical, when there is such a strong undercurrent of politics running through them. I don’t think there is any question that the CCP views the Olympics as a chance to sportswash their actions by wrapping themselves in the glory of the games (and no, this idea didn’t start in China with the Chinese communist party). I also find it hard to watch everyone kowtowing to the CCP. But because they have warned athletes who might wish to use the stage to protest that they will be charged under Chinese laws, it is really hard for me to view these games as anything other than a big brobdingnagian stage-managed propaganda exercise, which doesn’t interest me at all.
As for Gu, she has the right to represent whoever she wants, but Stanford athlete or not, I don’t have to root for he.
BC
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - 82lsju - 02-05-2022
(02-05-2022, 10:30 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: Guess once again I'm the outlier here. For me, it's all about the athletes. They've put so much effort into preparing and training, they deserve my attention whether they're American or not. Probably my most memorable Olympic event on TV was watching Franz Klammer at Innsbrook in the '76 games. USA Hockey in 1980 was fun, as were Sarah Hughes, Bob Beamon, Dave Waddle and many more unexpected champions. Katarina Witt was always fun to watch, but I digress.
As an ME, we didn't have many opportunities to take micks at Stanford, but I did get in a few. One was on the ancient Olympics. One memorable thing from the class was the tradition of ékécheiria guaranteeing the safe transit of athletes going to and from the games. A truce was also called during the ancient games. . . .Truly remarkable concepts that we could learn from today. Athletes before politics. . . .
On another note, I was at Stanford in '80 when Carter boycotted the Russian Olympics. All that did was hurt the athletes, several who were at Stanford at the time. One of the worst decisions of his presidency.
Boycott these games, nope, though I'm less interested this year. The athletes deserve what little attention I can give them.
![[Image: 217517238_10159024455931943_634632981109...e=6203356E]](https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/217517238_10159024455931943_6346329811099938848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=ztvgGqrPDoAAX9KBUCY&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AT-xDHOZzZ11Ut_uT8FJIrndXvlFgn8cVLh06OlU1SAhlQ&oe=6203356E)
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - gailtate - 02-05-2022
Having the "right" to do something doesn't always make it the Right Thing to be doing.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - BobK - 02-05-2022
1980 track & field who couldn’t go the Olympics
Tony Sandoval Stanford
Francie Larrieu Smith Fremont of Sunnyvale HS
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - DC 86 - 02-05-2022
(02-05-2022, 01:23 PM)BobK Wrote: 1980 track & field who couldn’t go the Olympics
Tony Sandoval Stanford
Francie Larrieu Smith Fremont of Sunnyvale HS
I know that you already know this, but Sandoval ran 2:10.19 in winning the trials, which in those days was a very strong time (the winning time at the Olympics was 2:11.03). Framcie Larrieu finished third in both the 1500 and 3000 at the World Cup (effectively the World Championships) in 1979. Both were legitimate contenders in their events, a terrible shame that they weren't allowed to compete.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - Phogge - 02-05-2022
Al Feuerbach and Mac Wilkins of world record and Two Big Guys Mountain Games fame. Santa Cruz Mountains. Fencer Gay DeSarro of SJS. Sprinter Eddie Hart from Oakland.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - ca245 - 02-05-2022
It seems to me the degree of opprobrium we direct at an athlete who switches nationality to another country arises from two things.
First, how much we dislike that another country. I don't think anyone will hold it against Jillian Harmon for representing NZ. I can't name any, but there probably have been US-born athletes representing Canada, another likable country, without receiving any flak. But, when Becky Hammond chose to play for Russia, I recall there was a lot of criticism (though I am happy to see that appears to be water under the bridge now). And, of course, today's Gu case for representing China, the current #1 on the disliked countries list.
Second, a sense of disloyalty towards one's birth country. But is this dependent on the direction of the switch? Catarina Macario was born in Brazil and lived there until she was a teenager. But I am not aware of any posts criticizing Catarina for being disloyal to Brazil, only celebrations of her desire to play for the US. It's not as if she would be bereft of professional and financial opportunities had she stayed with Brazil. The big money in WSoc is with the European clubs, as evidenced by her signing with Lyon instead of a NWSL club after finishing with Stanford. She certainly could have made her way to an European club from Brazil. And her predecessor Brazilian superstar, Marta, seems to have done well for herself. So this "disloyalty" issue seems to be one dependent on whose ox got gored.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - cardcrimson - 02-05-2022
(02-05-2022, 11:15 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I also find it hard to watch everyone kowtowing to the CCP. But because they have warned athletes who might wish to use the stage to protest that they will be charged under Chinese laws, it is really hard for me to view these games as anything other than a big of immense proportions stage-managed propaganda exercise, which doesn’t interest me at all.
As for Gu, she has the right to represent whoever she wants, but Stanford athlete or not, I don’t have to root for he.
BC
Who's kowtowing and warning athletes to speak out? Well, we all know the answer to that, but it's not allowed to be discussed here.
As for a propaganda exercise, that's the opening and closing ceremonies. The rest is athletic competition. Plain and simple. And it's fun to watch. Biathalon, curling, short track speed skating, luge, skeleton. All great fun,
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - M T - 02-05-2022
Let's not forget that for most of these athletes, this is to be the pinnacle of their athletic life. I knew athletes that missed out on their chance to participate in the Olympics because of politics, and that is a shame. I grant that sometimes such hard politics can have the greater good, but at a cost to the athletes.
While we can vehemently protest the human rights record of the CCP, we may want to cheer for our athletes and have good sportsmanship to all the individuals competing.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - 2006alum - 02-05-2022
In terms of athletes competing at the games, I don't hold anything against them, of course. I hold it against the IOC for giving hosting rights to China and sponsors for seeking reputational gain from their association with it. (note, of course, that most sports have annual world championships, so this is hardly most athletes' only opportunity to claim to be the world's best.)
As for athletes who switch countries, what galls me about Gu versus Macario is that Macario went to college in the US and as far as I know plans to reside here. In that sense, she really has moved and embraced life as an American.
Bur Gu would like to attend a US college, avail herself of the rights and privileges of US Citizenship, and presumably will continue to reside and pay taxes here. Yet she chooses to represent China and, as BC aptly put it, help China "launder" its reputation on an international stage. I'm sure there's more complexity to these dynamics than we can appreciate, but I simply am not going to root for that. And I'm sure her agent has already run the calculation and concluded she'll pick up 10 new Chinese fans for everyone one American like me who says "no thanks." So be it.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - TonyLima - 02-05-2022
(02-04-2022, 12:22 PM)Phogge Wrote: I would watch if the Biathlon included some paint ball stuff with the competitors shooting each other or if Johnny Knoxville and his pals pull some stunts on Chinese government officials.
Finnish moose hunting. I forget who coined that name.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - ca245 - 02-05-2022
(02-05-2022, 07:18 PM)2006alum Wrote: In terms of athletes competing at the games, I don't hold anything against them, of course. I hold it against the IOC for giving hosting rights to China and sponsors for seeking reputational gain from their association with it. (note, of course, that most sports have annual world championships, so this is hardly most athletes' only opportunity to claim to be the world's best.)So, according to your reasoning used to differentiate the Gu and Macario situations, Becky Hammond should have stayed in Russia after playing for their Olympic WBB team?
As for athletes who switch countries, what galls me about Gu versus Macario is that Macario went to college in the US and as far as I know plans to reside here. In that sense, she really has moved and embraced life as an American.
Bur Gu would like to attend a US college, avail herself of the rights and privileges of US Citizenship, and presumably will continue to reside and pay taxes here. Yet she chooses to represent China and, as BC aptly put it, help China "launder" its reputation on an international stage. I'm sure there's more complexity to these dynamics than we can appreciate, but I simply am not going to root for that. And I'm sure her agent has already run the calculation and concluded she'll pick up 10 new Chinese fans for everyone one American like me who says "no thanks." So be it.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - cardcrimson - 02-05-2022
(02-05-2022, 07:18 PM)2006alum Wrote: In terms of athletes competing at the games, I don't hold anything against them, of course. I hold it against the IOC for giving hosting rights to China and sponsors for seeking reputational gain from their association with it. (note, of course, that most sports have annual world championships, so this is hardly most athletes' only opportunity to claim to be the world's best.)
As for athletes who switch countries, what galls me about Gu versus Macario is that Macario went to college in the US and as far as I know plans to reside here. In that sense, she really has moved and embraced life as an American.
Bur Gu would like to attend a US college, avail herself of the rights and privileges of US Citizenship, and presumably will continue to reside and pay taxes here. Yet she chooses to represent China and, as BC aptly put it, help China "launder" its reputation on an international stage. I'm sure there's more complexity to these dynamics than we can appreciate, but I simply am not going to root for that. And I'm sure her agent has already run the calculation and concluded she'll pick up 10 new Chinese fans for everyone one American like me who says "no thanks." So be it.
Good lord. I'd love to comment, but I'd be kicked off the board permanently for political commentary.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - BostonCard - 02-05-2022
(02-05-2022, 04:07 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: As for a propaganda exercise, that's the opening and closing ceremonies. The rest is athletic competition. Plain and simple. And it's fun to watch. Biathalon, curling, short track speed skating, luge, skeleton. All great fun,
It is hard for me to separate the two, but I don’t begrudge you the enjoyment of the games. If you have fun watching them and can compartmentalize the athletic and political realms, then by all means enjoy the athletic competition.
BC
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - 2006alum - 02-06-2022
ca245, Hammon is a bit different since it's not like she could have competed for the US and turned it down. So it was Russia or bust if she wanted to compete in the Olympics. And no, I would not say she has to live there or anything of the sort - this isn't about punishing anyone or whatever.
My point is simply that if she could have been the starting PG for Team USA and turned it down to play for Russia, I wouldn't begrudge any Colorado State fans who didn't want to root for her in a Russian uniform. And that's how I feel about Gu.
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - lex24 - 02-06-2022
(02-04-2022, 12:30 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(02-04-2022, 09:04 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: I hope her future classmates draw her out more than the journalists can about how she is using her Chinese heritage for a very lucrative career choice to represent a country she wasn't born in, while that same country represses and imprisons their own citizens for having the wrong ethnicity.
"Growing skiing in China" GTFO, she's bright enough to know what bullshit that is.
Do you know her? Perhaps she's sincere. Perhaps she cares about China, it is her heritage. Perhaps she may use her star power to work for change. And if not, what's so wrong about maximizing your own earning potential.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about the NBA, especially with James and Kerr's comments, or lack there of, on China? How do you feel about Apple?
Her comments don’t suggest she is “working for change”. They suggest she is working to broaden her portfolio.
As for James, Kerr and the NBA, I thought theirs was a very principled decision. As long as you understand that the principle includes interest. Indeed, their are billions of reasons behind their “stance.”
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - BostonCard - 02-06-2022
Here’s a Chinese-born, American freestyle skier
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/freestyle-skiing-china-born-us-skier-owens-wins-over-viewers-2022-02-06/
Competing for the US hasn’t hurt her support in China.
And here is another US-born Chinese Olympian (in figure skater):
https://amp.france24.com/en/live-news/20220206-us-born-chinese-skater-savaged-online-after-olympics-blunder
By falling, she cost the Chinese team in the team event (that’s a thing?), and has been pilloried in China.
Quote: Many questioned why Zhu, an American-born skater, was picked to represent China at the expense of an athlete born in the country.
I wonder if those commenters are questioning whether Gu was picked at the expense of an athlete born in China.
In case anyone is wondering, I’m not trying to make a point.
BC
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - teejers1 - 02-06-2022
(02-05-2022, 07:18 PM)2006alum Wrote: In terms of athletes competing at the games, I don't hold anything against them, of course. I hold it against the IOC for giving hosting rights to China and sponsors for seeking reputational gain from their association with it. (note, of course, that most sports have annual world championships, so this is hardly most athletes' only opportunity to claim to be the world's best.)
As for athletes who switch countries, what galls me about Gu versus Macario is that Macario went to college in the US and as far as I know plans to reside here. In that sense, she really has moved and embraced life as an American.
Bur Gu would like to attend a US college, avail herself of the rights and privileges of US Citizenship, and presumably will continue to reside and pay taxes here. Yet she chooses to represent China and, as BC aptly put it, help China "launder" its reputation on an international stage. I'm sure there's more complexity to these dynamics than we can appreciate, but I simply am not going to root for that. And I'm sure her agent has already run the calculation and concluded she'll pick up 10 new Chinese fans for everyone one American like me who says "no thanks." So be it.
One other factor, a big one: I don't think anyone begrudges an American citizen from competing for another country when they had no shot of participating in the Olympics on the American team. Harmon falls into that camp, as do the (vast?) majority of other dual-citizenship Americans competing in the Olympics. (Add: Whoops. I see that 2006 made this point earlier . . . )
RE: Stanford in the Winter Olympics - Phogge - 02-07-2022
Kerr makes political statements all the time. People cut him slack because his dad was murdered in Beirut. I don’t listen to athletes speaking about politics unless their names are Bunning and Mizell.