MBB: March Madness - Printable Version
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RE: MBB: March Madness - jacket3ree - 03-21-2022
I'm not sure that Arizona-TCU end of regulation was called correctly, but ultimately I think it was the right outcome. Like TJ suggests, TCU was not about to get a real shot off. He was dribbling along the half court line with three seconds remaining, facing a trap. Foul or flop? They'll be arguing that for awhile, but you can't reward awful offense with game winning free throws. Backcourt violation? Maybe, although I'm not sure he was dribbling in the backcourt while laying on his backside. Seems more of a turnover and play on. Would an Arizona possession at half-court with maybe 2 seconds left have worked out for them better than free run to the hoop? Not enough time for a dunk and had the Zona guy had the presence of mind to release an uncontested floater, they win at the buzzer. As it was, five more minutes to determine a winner. TCU had a second chance, as did Arizona.
Secondary question for everyone. Do you root for your bracket or from your heart? I made up a "stochastically derived" bracket this year. No, not using the MatLab program we wrote to analyze local rainfall data for projecting 100,000 years of reservoir inflow. Could have, although what a lot of work. Rather, straight up coin flips after allowing the top 4 seeds in every bracket to win their first round games. College basketball is not random, but right now I have 7/16 of the Sweet Sixteen (almost the 50% 'expected value'), with a Final Four of Arizona, Arkansas, Kentucky, and LSU. For every Arizona that benefitted from random coin flips, there was a Rutgers (Elite Eight) and LSU.
Some of the young staff who have never gotten into basketball before are far more concerned about their bracket than watching something like the monumental win by the Peacocks over Kentucky. Not me. Made sure we Googled to know where the heck St. Peter's is.
RE: MBB: March Madness - Phogge - 03-21-2022
Could care less about brackets. Don't like the perennial powers, especially Dook men and assholes like Calipari and Geno.
RE: MBB: March Madness - CompSci87 - 03-21-2022
I haven't done a men's bracket, but have been doing WBB brackets for a few years. I realized this year it's a lot more fun to root for the underdogs or just enjoy the competition than to get stressed about how my bracket is doing, especially when that would require me to root against a cool upset that's in the making.
It helped this year that I did two brackets, one more serious and one with a lot of upsets that seemed unlikely but not impossible. That way I wasn't committed to rooting for the overdog to make my serious bracket do well.
In fact by luck my upset bracket has done better so far!
RE: MBB: March Madness - PVTree - 03-22-2022
My brackets are done with how I think the games will turn out. Once the games start, I root for the team I enjoy the most or in the case of Stanford being in the dance, such as the women's team, I root for the teams that could pose a danger to Stanford to lose.
RE: MBB: March Madness - M T - 03-22-2022
If the officials can somehow claim they didn't see the foul of bumping the player into the back court, they probably could rightfully claim that they didn't see the player touch the ball in the back court (so no back court call).
But how in the world could they claim not to see the Arizona bench personnel come running out on to the court while the ball was live (before the late dunk)??? That should have been a bench technical foul, and if the FT was made, a win for TCU.
The officials should be canned for that level of non-officiating.
RE: MBB: March Madness - burger - 03-22-2022
Whatever actually happened, it's clear to me that the officials were in "we're not going to decide the game" mode. They were not going to blow a whistle for anything short of a punch to the face (and even then probably not).
The thing that bothers me most is that we see the same thing time and again, and it never seems to improve. Does anyone even review official performance? Or has the NCAA just given up on trying to make things better?
RE: MBB: March Madness - Spiny_Norman - 03-24-2022
(03-22-2022, 06:25 AM)burger Wrote: Whatever actually happened, it's clear to me that the officials were in "we're not going to decide the game" mode. They were not going to blow a whistle for anything short of a punch to the face (and even then probably not).
The thing that bothers me most is that we see the same thing time and again, and it never seems to improve. Does anyone even review official performance? Or has the NCAA just given up on trying to make things better?
Burger, the officials *are* evaluated. But the NCAA says, "Everything is fine!" Pat Forde hits the nail on the head with his critique of officiating - https://www.si.com/college/2022/03/24/ncaa-tournament-referees-lacking-consistency-accountability
RE: MBB: March Madness - fullmetal - 03-24-2022
Quote:Indeed, the officiating talent pool is shallow enough that the big-name refs are virtually assured of advancing in the tournament regardless of how they actually perform.
This is bull----. Basketball is a wildly popular sport in the United States, and there are innumerable officials in every moderate-to-large city at the high school level and above, and many of them are probably skilled enough to perform at the next level if given the chance. Shallow talent pool? More like gatekept talent pool. I officiate in a niche sport at the local and national level because my sport is really that small. I can see how the same officials get to work the same high-level competitions over and over again because of geography, personal relationships, and other factors, but it is rarely an issue of "talent."
Here we go:
Quote:Did they get there on past reputation, or current performance? “It’s sort of an old boys’ network,” one coach said.
Administrators from the tournament teams, members of the Division I men’s basketball committee and officiating monitors all provide input on the referees after every tourney game. They are given three options for rating an official: “strongly recommend” to advance; “recommend” to advance; and “do not recommend” to advance. Some wonder how much their feedback is considered.
RE: MBB: March Madness - BillBradley - 03-24-2022
Talk about awful officiating...The refs in the Gonzaga-Arkansas game were terrible. One play an Arkansas guard dribbled baseline and around half his foot was out of bounds and no ref called it. Arkansas got a 3 on that possession. There were numerous phantom calls and just plain missed calls. They kept bringing in the officiating expert Gene Steratore and he kept reluctantly saying things like "yeah that probably shouldn't have been called" and "surprised they missed that". It was embarrassingly bad.
RE: MBB: March Madness - triangle2 - 03-24-2022
Mark Few seems to be in the stage of his coaching career that seems like "late-Mike Montgomery". Like Mike, he seems to be having a lot less fun when he's not an underdog 10 seed.
RE: MBB: March Madness - BostonCard - 03-24-2022
Both 1 seeds lost; both 2 seeds won.
BC
RE: MBB: March Madness - OutsiderFan - 03-25-2022
Duke will win it all and give sports media the wet dream it so badly wants.
RE: MBB: March Madness - Phogge - 03-25-2022
Have you noticed that Nantz is always in the regional where his pal Coach K is playing. CBS is as Duke-centric as ESPN is with Saban.
I’m rooting for Houston to take it all. If that two faced whiner from Durham wins I will Ralph buckets.
I have about a dozen buddies who decided to endure four additional years with the Jesuits and went to Spokane. I now fear for them because we’re certainly not getting any younger. Mark Few is one player short every year.
RE: MBB: March Madness - lex24 - 03-25-2022
Go Duke. Be great to see one of the greatest college coaches of all-time go out on top. Plus, I know how muck Coach K and the Dookies are loved on this board……
Was pulling for Gonzaga. But that ship sailed. My impression is they lacked depth. And Holmgrens foul trouble hurt. I sure wish they’d go to 6 fouls.
(03-24-2022, 08:35 PM)BillBradley Wrote: Talk about awful officiating...The refs in the Gonzaga-Arkansas game were terrible. One play an Arkansas guard dribbled baseline and around half his foot was out of bounds and no ref called it. Arkansas got a 3 on that possession. There were numerous phantom calls and just plain missed calls. They kept bringing in the officiating expert Gene Steratore and he kept reluctantly saying things like "yeah that probably shouldn't have been called" and "surprised they missed that". It was embarrassingly bad.
Basketball is incredibly hard to ref. All you can ask for is consistentcy. Calls are gonna be missed.
Having said that, college hoops is “over officiated” way too many tricky tack fouls. Way too many charging calls that should be blocks or non-calls. And the 5 fouls disqualification rule should be changed.
RE: MBB: March Madness - Phogge - 03-25-2022
And a number of stupid reach ins by brain dead players. All the tacky fouls add up to making the game less entertaining.
RE: MBB: March Madness - BillBradley - 03-25-2022
(03-25-2022, 07:05 AM)lex24 Wrote: Go Duke. Be great to see one of the greatest college coaches of all-time go out on top. Plus, I know how muck Coach K and the Dookies are loved on this board……Agree entirely. The biggest issue, IMO, is that "consistency" and "over officiated" are in direct conflict with one another. Once you start calling ticky tack stuff, you need to call all of it. When you arbitrarily call some of it, by definition it's not consistent. The ones that get me the most are:
Was pulling for Gonzaga. But that ship sailed. My impression is they lacked depth. And Holmgrens foul trouble hurt. I sure wish they’d go to 6 fouls.
(03-24-2022, 08:35 PM)BillBradley Wrote: Talk about awful officiating...The refs in the Gonzaga-Arkansas game were terrible. One play an Arkansas guard dribbled baseline and around half his foot was out of bounds and no ref called it. Arkansas got a 3 on that possession. There were numerous phantom calls and just plain missed calls. They kept bringing in the officiating expert Gene Steratore and he kept reluctantly saying things like "yeah that probably shouldn't have been called" and "surprised they missed that". It was embarrassingly bad.
Basketball is incredibly hard to ref. All you can ask for is consistentcy. Calls are gonna be missed.
Having said that, college hoops is “over officiated” way too many tricky tack fouls. Way too many charging calls that should be blocks or non-calls. And the 5 fouls disqualification rule should be changed.
- The three point shooter flop. Whenever someone is defended closely on a 3 pointer, the shooter falls down after they release the ball. It's become automatic these days for the shooters to go hunting for free throws. And the refs do reward the flop with fouls calls every so often, so why would the shooters stop falling down if they are being rewarded? The common explanation is "we need to protect the shooter and give him/her a place to land." I say B.S. Get up in the shooter's face but don't make contact. That's called good defense in my book. If every once in awhile someone lands on a foot and twists an ankle then so be it. Post players are constantly jumping in traffic and coming down with feet all around them and yes, every once in awhile someone twists an ankle. But no one is deliberately trying to hurt anyone, so just let it go.
- A guard is dribbling and when they get bumped or are closely guarded they thrust their head back. Please - the game is turning into international soccer where players writhe in pain every time they get tackled. Just don't call it! Once it's not called then players will stop doing it and we won't need this stupid "flop warning". The controversy at the end of the Arizona-TCU game on the play at half court is a perfect example. In my mind that's a no-call. But so were the 5 others during the game, so if you called them then how do you not call that one?
A good % of this stuff is solved if they stop over-officiating as you suggest.
RE: MBB: March Madness - teejers1 - 03-25-2022
(03-25-2022, 06:54 AM)Phogge Wrote: Have you noticed that Nantz is always in the regional where his pal Coach K is playing. CBS is as Duke-centric as ESPN is with Saban.
I’m rooting for Houston to take it all. If that two faced whiner from Durham wins I will Ralph buckets.
I have about a dozen buddies who decided to endure four additional years with the Jesuits and went to Spokane. I now fear for them because we’re certainly not getting any younger. Mark Few is one player short every year.
Where is Pete Gillen when you need him? ("Certainly Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beavuhh reruns!").
RE: MBB: March Madness - OutsiderFan - 03-25-2022
On the topic of NCAA Basketball officiating...
Watch an NBA game be officiated. Then watch a college game.
The histrionics NCAA officials display is nauseating. NBA officials blow the whistle, lift their arms and make subtle gestures. Even when they T-up a player, it's understated.
NCAA refs draw way too much attention to themselves.
RE: MBB: March Madness - 82lsju - 03-25-2022
Saint Peter's wins on National Peacock day.....
RE: MBB: March Madness - martyup - 03-25-2022
(03-25-2022, 06:30 PM)82lsju Wrote: Saint Peter's wins on National Peacock day.....
St. Petes is no joke.