Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen

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RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - needle - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 10:56 PM)Giants Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 08:22 PM)TonyLima Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 07:23 PM)Giants Wrote: Question for Madsen-philes….

If he had gone to Whatsamatta U., would you still feel as strongly about him as a candidate?

One pitfall that needs to be avoided is selecting a guy based exclusively upon his membership in the Alumni Assoc.

Invalid comparison. Would he be better than Haase?

“Better than Haase” is not a very high bar to clear. I would hope that Muir would be looking for a coach that could reach the tournament on a regular basis.

(01-15-2023, 08:57 PM)BobK Wrote: Ah so who about a top assistant at a top school like Duke North Carolina or ND. Yes Hasse had four years as a head coach but those three DiBiaso Dawkins Haase
didn’t work Tom Davis fresh from a Final 4 didn’t work. A former Stanford assistant Johnson worked some thanks to the Lopis. So in the past 60 years we have had one success. Thus why not a Stanford alum?

And the one success graduated from Cal State Long Beach. Who cares where the coach went to college? If he can win on a consistent basis, no one will be checking his diploma.

Heck, maybe Madsen is the answer. I’m just suggesting that Muir cast a wide net….

Here’s an idea - maybe he can find a Cal guy to pair with Taylor. Jason Kidd, anyone? ;)

please correct me if i'm wrong, but pretty sure there is one Black HC at Stanford (JJ Clark, head track coach). i'm thinking that race will factor into hiring Haase's replacement.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - BobK - 01-16-2023

(01-15-2023, 10:31 PM)Maple Leaf Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 08:02 PM)BobK Wrote: After the war Howie transferred to Penn
At Stanford he led Stanford to the NCAA championship Great guy but ok coach

In football the last two Stanford grads to coach took us to 4 Rose Bowls. Yes yes Shaw ended badly

Not sure about the last TWO Stanford Grads:
Shaw = 3 Rose Bowls

Wiggin = 0 Rose Bowls

Taylor = 1 Rose Bowls

Of course you are correct. The Wiggin years were so bad they are erased from my memory

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - Maple Leaf - 01-16-2023

(01-16-2023, 10:15 AM)BobK Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 10:31 PM)Maple Leaf Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 08:02 PM)BobK Wrote: After the war Howie transferred to Penn
At Stanford he led Stanford to the NCAA championship Great guy but ok coach

In football the last two Stanford grads to coach took us to 4 Rose Bowls. Yes yes Shaw ended badly

Not sure about the last TWO Stanford Grads:
Shaw = 3 Rose Bowls

Wiggin = 0 Rose Bowls

Taylor = 1 Rose Bowls

Of course you are correct. The Wiggin years were so bad they are erased from my memory

Sorry to create a flashback of painful memories.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - BobK - 01-16-2023

A friend on this board emailed me yesterday about Wiggin lol

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - SamuelMcF - 01-16-2023

(01-15-2023, 11:38 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Haase is a Cal guy. Maybe that’s the problem? The last time we thought the low bar was “better than Dawkins”, and yet here we are.

BC

The low bar WAS "better than Dawkins." Haase seemed like a great hire, and better than Dawkins, at the time. He turned out not to be.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - BostonCard - 01-16-2023

(01-16-2023, 10:40 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 11:38 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Haase is a Cal guy. Maybe that’s the problem? The last time we thought the low bar was “better than Dawkins”, and yet here we are.

BC

The low bar WAS "better than Dawkins." Haase seemed like a great hire, and better than Dawkins, at the time. He turned out not to be.

That was my point. Haase is not a good coach and doing better than Haase is a low bar, but that’s no guarantee that what comes after Haase will clear even that low bar.

BC

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - lex24 - 01-16-2023

(01-16-2023, 10:21 AM)BobK Wrote: A friend on this board emailed me yesterday about Wiggin lol

Great football player. From accounts I’ve read a very good person. Two out of three ain’t bad…..

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - Giants - 01-16-2023

(01-15-2023, 11:38 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 10:56 PM)Giants Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 08:22 PM)TonyLima Wrote:
(01-15-2023, 07:23 PM)Giants Wrote: Question for Madsen-philes….

If he had gone to Whatsamatta U., would you still feel as strongly about him as a candidate?

One pitfall that needs to be avoided is selecting a guy based exclusively upon his membership in the Alumni Assoc.

Invalid comparison. Would he be better than Haase?

“Better than Haase” is not a very high bar to clear. I would hope that Muir would be looking for a coach that could reach the tournament on a regular basis.

(01-15-2023, 08:57 PM)BobK Wrote: Ah so who about a top assistant at a top school like Duke North Carolina or ND. Yes Hasse had four years as a head coach but those three DiBiaso Dawkins Haase
didn’t work Tom Davis fresh from a Final 4 didn’t work. A former Stanford assistant Johnson worked some thanks to the Lopis. So in the past 60 years we have had one success. Thus why not a Stanford alum?

And the one success graduated from Cal State Long Beach. Who cares where the coach went to college? If he can win on a consistent basis, no one will be checking his diploma.

Heck, maybe Madsen is the answer. I’m just suggesting that Muir cast a wide net….

Here’s an idea - maybe he can find a Cal guy to pair with Taylor. Jason Kidd, anyone? ;)

Haase is a Cal guy. Maybe that’s the problem? The last time we thought the low bar was “better than Dawkins”, and yet here we are.

BC

Although he played one year at Cal, he was a Kansas guy.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - PVTree - 01-17-2023

Besides the ungettable Tony Bennett, I also would like Jay Wright as our next coach. Maybe he's rested and up for an even bigger challenge than Nova.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - SkiBum80 - 01-17-2023

I have no idea when Muir will let Haase go.
Or Muir might be let go before then.
But if Haase is gone and Muir is leading the replacement hunt,
and he follows the pattern he did in hiring Troy Taylor,
then I'm actually Optimistic.
A Troy Taylor type for MBB would be a good move.
What is that type?
Someone with success at a lower level and seemingly great energy and enthusiasm.
This is best for them and us, because I'd hope the new coach would try hard as nails to bring that success up to a next level.
I think focusing only on bringing in someone who's already proven success at a D1 school in Pac-12 or other similar big-time conference is misguided.
We would be a step down for many or most such a coach.
And their only motivation is to what, try prove again they can do again, what they already did at this or higher level?
It's not enough.
They more likely to get frustrated and bail out.
Look for someone where their possible success with us is not only great for us but paving new ground for themselves.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - SamuelMcF - 01-17-2023

(01-17-2023, 10:42 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote: A Troy Taylor type for MBB would be a good move.
What is that type?
Someone with success at a lower level and seemingly great energy and enthusiasm.
This is best for them and us, because I'd hope the new coach would try hard as nails to bring that success up to a next level.
I think focusing only on bringing in someone who's already proven success at a D1 school in Pac-12 or other similar big-time conference is misguided.
We would be a step down for many or most such a coach.
And their only motivation is to what, try prove again they can do again, what they already did at this or higher level?
It's not enough.
They more likely to get frustrated and bail out.
Look for someone where their possible success with us is not only great for us but paving new ground for themselves.

You just described Haase.

To be clear, my point is that despite it being very credible, that type of hire might or might not work out. (Again.) Many other coaches who fit that description HAVE worked out, so you simply can't know for sure.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - cardcrimson - 01-17-2023

(01-17-2023, 10:42 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote: I have no idea when Muir will let Haase go.
Or Muir might be let go before then.
But if Haase is gone and Muir is leading the replacement hunt,
and he follows the pattern he did in hiring Troy Taylor,
then I'm actually Optimistic.
A Troy Taylor type for MBB would be a good move.
What is that type?
Someone with success at a lower level and seemingly great energy and enthusiasm.
This is best for them and us, because I'd hope the new coach would try hard as nails to bring that success up to a next level.
I think focusing only on bringing in someone who's already proven success at a D1 school in Pac-12 or other similar big-time conference is misguided.
We would be a step down for many or most such a coach.
And their only motivation is to what, try prove again they can do again, what they already did at this or higher level?
It's not enough.
They more likely to get frustrated and bail out.
Look for someone where their possible success with us is not only great for us but paving new ground for themselves.

My memory is a bit hazy, but wasn't that Haase's resume before Stanford?

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - BrevinsBest - 01-17-2023

Why don't we go with the trifecta of Madsen, Kris Weems and David Moseley. We could relive the glory days of Stanford Basketball through the coaches.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - SkiBum80 - 01-17-2023

(01-17-2023, 10:55 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(01-17-2023, 10:42 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote: I have no idea when Muir will let Haase go.
Or Muir might be let go before then.
But if Haase is gone and Muir is leading the replacement hunt,
and he follows the pattern he did in hiring Troy Taylor,
then I'm actually Optimistic.
A Troy Taylor type for MBB would be a good move.
What is that type?
Someone with success at a lower level and seemingly great energy and enthusiasm.
This is best for them and us, because I'd hope the new coach would try hard as nails to bring that success up to a next level.
I think focusing only on bringing in someone who's already proven success at a D1 school in Pac-12 or other similar big-time conference is misguided.
We would be a step down for many or most such a coach.
And their only motivation is to what, try prove again they can do again, what they already did at this or higher level?
It's not enough.
They more likely to get frustrated and bail out.
Look for someone where their possible success with us is not only great for us but paving new ground for themselves.

My memory is a bit hazy....

Self deprecation, or sarcasm, is equally appreciated. It's my frequent go to, notwithstanding the fine line between them.

(01-17-2023, 10:55 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: ... but wasn't that Haase's resume before Stanford?

Yes, pretty much. And I think he recruited well, or well enough. But after few years kinda apparent the player development/game coaching wasn't going well enough. Now has really cratered.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - fullmetal - 01-17-2023

Stanford is a case study in shiny recruiting classes that haven't panned out well on the court. Very disappointing, I'm sure Haase puts in the work to recruit, but for whatever reason, he isn't getting it done in practice or in games.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - martyup - 01-18-2023

(01-17-2023, 02:51 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Stanford is a case study in shiny recruiting classes that haven't panned out well on the court. Very disappointing, I'm sure Haase puts in the work to recruit, but for whatever reason, he isn't getting it done in practice or in games.

I'm not a basketball expert by any means. I was a wrestler and never played organized basketball. But, aren't the assistant coaches just as important as the head coach in developing players and implementing game strategy? Did Hasse fail to hire effective assistants? Either way, it's on him. Just curious.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - fullmetal - 01-18-2023

(01-18-2023, 02:08 PM)martyup Wrote:
(01-17-2023, 02:51 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Stanford is a case study in shiny recruiting classes that haven't panned out well on the court. Very disappointing, I'm sure Haase puts in the work to recruit, but for whatever reason, he isn't getting it done in practice or in games.

I'm not a basketball expert by any means. I was a wrestler and never played organized basketball. But, aren't the assistant coaches just as important as the head coach in developing players and implementing game strategy? Did Hasse fail to hire effective assistants? Either way, it's on him. Just curious.

I would agree. Probably matters a lot more in football, and we've seen what happens when asst coaches' player development skills are ineffective. In basketball, a much smaller team means a head coach has a lot more influence on the players, but I'm sure the assistants also matter in the way you say.

RE: Stanford Men’s Basketball Mark Madsen - winflop - 01-19-2023

(01-18-2023, 03:41 PM)fullmetal Wrote:
(01-18-2023, 02:08 PM)martyup Wrote:
(01-17-2023, 02:51 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Stanford is a case study in shiny recruiting classes that haven't panned out well on the court. Very disappointing, I'm sure Haase puts in the work to recruit, but for whatever reason, he isn't getting it done in practice or in games.

I'm not a basketball expert by any means. I was a wrestler and never played organized basketball. But, aren't the assistant coaches just as important as the head coach in developing players and implementing game strategy? Did Hasse fail to hire effective assistants? Either way, it's on him. Just curious.

I would agree. Probably matters a lot more in football, and we've seen what happens when asst coaches' player development skills are ineffective. In basketball, a much smaller team means a head coach has a lot more influence on the players, but I'm sure the assistants also matter in the way you say.

In terms of skill development, the assistants matter a lot. But offensive & defensive schemes and in-game play calling falls directly on Haase. But, as was said, Haase has hired all of the assistants so ultimately it all falls on him (same as with Shaw)