WBB: Stanford 67 North Carolina State 77 season ends - Printable Version
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76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 03-26-2024
(03-26-2024, 06:16 PM)82 Card Wrote:(03-26-2024, 05:58 PM)SkiBum80 Wrote:(03-26-2024, 05:51 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Stanford is fourth in the nation in rebounding margin, with an average rebounding margin of 12.3/game.
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-women/d1/current/team/117
The other team wants it too, and sometimes they actually get after it better than you, but that does not negate the notion that the Stanford women's basketball team is one of the best rebounding teams in the nation. FWIW, Iowa State is also a top-10 rebounding margin team. And, in our only game against them, we out rebounded the top rebounding team in the nation 44-29.
BC
Confused by end of your post. ESPN box score shows us being outrebounded 42-36 by Iowa State.
According to the linked chart, the top rebounding team is UCLA.
So you’re saying we out rebounded the #1 team WHO WAS MISSING ITS TOP REBOUNDER…?! :-)
RE: 76lsjumb - M T - 03-26-2024
(03-26-2024, 06:20 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: So you’re saying we out rebounded the #1 team WHO WAS MISSING ITS TOP REBOUNDER…?! :-)Yep, even if you add in 150% of her average rebounds.
She’d be well below 2nd best at rebounding for Stanford this year even if she were averaging alll the time on the floor that she is getting at her latest school
Let’s just say she was a good judge of talent and knew she wouldn’t measure up until her senior year
Hieronymus - Hieronymus - 03-27-2024
(03-26-2024, 08:23 PM)M T Wrote:(03-26-2024, 06:20 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: So you’re saying we out rebounded the #1 team WHO WAS MISSING ITS TOP REBOUNDER…?! :-)Yep, even if you add in 150% of her average rebounds.
She’d be well below 2nd best at rebounding for Stanford this year even if she were averaging alll the time on the floor that she is getting at her latest school
Let’s just say she was a good judge of talent and knew she wouldn’t measure up until her senior year
No doubt through most of the year rebounding has been a big strength. Lately though, not so much. Last 5 games:
Cal: +6
OSU: +5
USC: -20!!!
Norfolk st: +10
ISU: -6
So we are talking an avg of -1 per game despite 1 game you would expect us to dominate. This is against +12.3 for the season as posted by Bostoncard. Maybe the sample is too small and USC hurts the numbers, but none of these games hit the season average +12 edge. Last year guard rebounding was a large problem and I fear that problem has been hidden much of the year by Cam and Kiki without being solved. NC St has excellent rebounders at guard- their top 4 guards (by minutes) average about 2.5x our top 4 guards. 8.4 vs 21.6 rebounds per game. I hope we revert to season averages, but I remain very concerned.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - 81alum - 03-28-2024
Rebounding and free throw shooting, both of which had been major strengths for us this season, have each tailed off lately. I do hope we get back on track in those respects.
Against North Carolina State we will wish to run on them since they are not deep--but doing so may hurt defensive rebounding a bit.
Offensive rebounding could be hurt if we want to get back quickly--as we should--to prevent their fast break points. Having Cam down under their basket waiting for them before they get there would be a good thing, but then she has to leave early.
This is the chess match.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - SkiBum80 - 03-28-2024
(03-28-2024, 08:01 AM)81alum Wrote: Rebounding and free throw shooting, both of which had been major strengths for us this season, have each tailed off lately. I do hope we get back on track in those respects.It is a chess match, good analogy.
Against North Carolina State we will wish to run on them since they are not deep--but doing so may hurt defensive rebounding a bit.
Offensive rebounding could be hurt if we want to get back quickly--as we should--to prevent their fast break points. Having Cam down under their basket waiting for them before they get there would be a good thing, but then she has to leave early.
This is the chess match.
When anticipating a lesser team, like Norfolk state, I think you just plan to play your game and count on it being better than their game and enough to win. To impose your game on them.
If you were Norfolk State playing Stanford then I think you go for What can I do (adjust) to try and take the better team out of their game, out of comfort zone, so I have a chance for an upset.
When up against a likely near equal like NC State, I don’t know how much you plan to stick to your game and intend to impose it on them, or how much you adjust to try stop their game.
In some aspects or moments you can’t do both. As your example, Cam is either going for O boards or she is hustling back to try block or discourage their fast break penetration.
Can’t do both
Glad it’s Coach Tara and not me making the call!
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - BillBradley - 03-28-2024
(03-28-2024, 08:56 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote:Adjustments are a game of tradeoffs. You just need the tradeoff to be in your favor. Cam getting on the O glass might be the best way to stop their fast break, and we get putback opportunities to boot. But if they can keep Cam off the glass, then we could get hurt going the other way. A lot of these calls may be audibles, either during a commercial break timeout, quarter, or halftime.(03-28-2024, 08:01 AM)81alum Wrote: Rebounding and free throw shooting, both of which had been major strengths for us this season, have each tailed off lately. I do hope we get back on track in those respects.It is a chess match, good analogy.
Against North Carolina State we will wish to run on them since they are not deep--but doing so may hurt defensive rebounding a bit.
Offensive rebounding could be hurt if we want to get back quickly--as we should--to prevent their fast break points. Having Cam down under their basket waiting for them before they get there would be a good thing, but then she has to leave early.
This is the chess match.
When anticipating a lesser team, like Norfolk state, I think you just plan to play your game and count on it being better than their game and enough to win. To impose your game on them.
If you were Norfolk State playing Stanford then I think you go for What can I do (adjust) to try and take the better team out of their game, out of comfort zone, so I have a chance for an upset.
When up against a likely near equal like NC State, I don’t know how much you plan to stick to your game and intend to impose it on them, or how much you adjust to try stop their game.
In some aspects or moments you can’t do both. As your example, Cam is either going for O boards or she is hustling back to try block or discourage their fast break penetration.
Can’t do both
Glad it’s Coach Tara and not me making the call!
I personally hope we start out playing to our strengths (inside game and rebounding) and taking away theirs (perimeter shooting). If we start out and that's all going fine and dandy, then they'll have to adjust. If the adjustments don't work, then it's a checkmate :>
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - OCcardinal - 03-28-2024
Tara addressed the rebounding issue vs Iowa State. Cam was on the bench and Kiki was taking most of the shots. Voila, our second worst rebounding percentage of the season. (Our worst was the P12 conference final where Tara decided to implement that wacky new defense on the fly - our rebounding percentage dropped from 50% the first time we played USC to a miserable 36.8%).
I was actually encouraged by the Iowa State game. The matchups were not good for us, Brink fouled out in 23 minutes, Iowa State hit 12 threes (on only 19 attempts), and we still pulled out the win.
Also, I would be very surprised if NC State can duplicate what Iowa State did on threes. Iowa State is #6 in the nation in 3 point shooting percentage. NC State is #120. (Their 2 pt shooting percentage rank is not much better at 109.) Their guards are fast and will get their shots off, but they will need a bit of luck to get a high percentage of them to drop like Iowa State. And Brink will discourage their drives. (Even in Juju's 51 point game against Stanford, none of her points were scored on drives against Brink.) They may drive just to try to draw fouls on Brink though.
What scares me the most about NC St is not their offense, but rather the defensive ability of their guards. Rivers, Hayes and Baldwin are all 5 star recruits and NC St's defense is ranked #7 in the country. (Rivers particularly scares me - her Defensive Win Shares stat is ranked #10 in the country.) I'll be looking to see whether they are able to disrupt our offense (not turnovers per se - they don't force a lot of those like Arizona - but making us take shots we don't want to take). Nevertheless, it also takes a lot of energy to play that kind of defense. So this could be another game where our offense looks much better in the second half as the opponent tires.
76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 03-28-2024
(03-28-2024, 04:23 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: Tara addressed the rebounding issue vs Iowa State. Cam was on the bench and Kiki was taking most of the shots. Voila, our second worst rebounding percentage of the season. (Our worst was the P12 conference final where Tara decided to implement that wacky new defense on the fly - our rebounding percentage dropped from 50% the first time we played USC to a miserable 36.8%).
I was actually encouraged by the Iowa State game. The matchups were not good for us, Brink fouled out in 23 minutes, Iowa State hit 12 threes (on only 19 attempts), and we still pulled out the win.
Also, I would be very surprised if NC State can duplicate what Iowa State did on threes. Iowa State is #6 in the nation in 3 point shooting percentage. NC State is #120. (Their 2 pt shooting percentage rank is not much better at 109.) Their guards are fast and will get their shots off, but they will need a bit of luck to get a high percentage of them to drop like Iowa State. And Brink will discourage their drives. (Even in Juju's 51 point game against Stanford, none of her points were scored on drives against Brink.) They may drive just to try to draw fouls on Brink though.
What scares me the most about NC St is not their offense, but rather the defensive ability of their guards. Rivers, Hayes and Baldwin are all 5 star recruits and NC St's defense is ranked #7 in the country. (Rivers particularly scares me - her Defensive Win Shares stat is ranked #10 in the country.) I'll be looking to see whether they are able to disrupt our offense (not turnovers per se - they don't force a lot of those like Arizona - but making us take shots we don't want to take). Nevertheless, it also takes a lot of energy to play that kind of defense. So this could be another game where our offense looks much better in the second half as the opponent tires.
“…making us take shots we don’t want to take…”?
It seems to me that our problem is more often not taking shots we really ought to take. I’d love a defense that makes us take shots whether we like them or not… :-)
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - WBB fan - 03-28-2024
Cardboarders going to Portland, if you don't already know, there is a Stanford reception in the lobby of the Portland downtown Hilton tomorrow from 1-3, team sendoff there at 2:20. ( That's the team hotel)
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - M T - 03-28-2024
(03-28-2024, 04:23 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: Tara addressed the rebounding issue vs Iowa State. Cam was on the bench and Kiki was taking most of the shots. Voila, our second worst rebounding percentage of the season. (Our worst was the P12 conference final where Tara decided to implement that wacky new defense on the fly - our rebounding percentage dropped from 50% the first time we played USC to a miserable 36.8%).
If you subtract "team rebounds" (out-of-bounds, etc; they had 8 to our 5),
ISU had 11 OR & 23 DR on (total 36 misses) 7 missed 3's and 29 missed 2's and <6 missed FT,
Stanford had 8 OR & 23 DR on (total 38 misses) 17 missed 3's, 21 missed 2's, and <1 missed FT
(I didn't look to see how many FT were rebounded.)
So we got 26% of our OR possibilities and 68% of our DR possibilities. Give us a 94 and ISU a 106.
Given our 2 extra misses, you'd expect them to get about 1.5 extra rebounds, when they actually got 3 more.
Not the best, but not anything to lose sleep over.
(03-28-2024, 07:31 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: It seems to me that our problem is more often not taking shots we really ought to take. I’d love a defense that makes us take shots whether we like them or not… :-)
Smiley or not, that would be a disaster. I would only wish that on an opponent.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - Yellowlab - 03-29-2024
My main concern for this game is our perimeter defense. I would not be surprised to see Nunu play a lot of minutes against this team. She seems to have established herself as the team's best perimeter defender.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - Baez87 - 03-29-2024
Sitting over breakfast on a sunny morning in a Portland hotel and anticipating a game well played by our Cardinal team. As always, it’s been enjoyable to read our fan’s perspectives, which usually piques my interest and informs my curiosity. I’m even entertained by the guy who constantly attempts to get attention by misspelling Kiki’s name and noting that no one bites!
It’s been a great season for our women. Let’s hope that months and years of hard work and dedication will earn a victory today. I’d love to see another Cardinal game this week and even travel to Cleveland to finish the season on a win. Either way, I’ve really enjoyed this team this year, they have been a joy to watch as they developed from day one to this tournament day!
RE: 76lsjumb - OCcardinal - 03-29-2024
(03-28-2024, 07:31 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: “…making us take shots we don’t want to take…”?Two sides of the same coin. I'm thinking back to the first matchup vs USC. Tara was asked what specifically went wrong in that game. She didn't point to JuJu's 51 points. Rather she said:
It seems to me that our problem is more often not taking shots we really ought to take. I’d love a defense that makes us take shots whether we like them or not… :-)
"I think we just took a lot of bad shots to be honest with you. We had one pass, people not taking shots that are their shots within our offense. And once you start taking bad ones then even your good ones don't go in...Our shot selection and just not playing with any flow. It was very disappointing."
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - martyup - 03-29-2024
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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - Hieronymus - 03-29-2024
Games worth of offensive fouls in the first 2 minutes. Awesome.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - martyup - 03-29-2024
Two early offensive foul calls. That gal gaurding Jump wasa not set.
Cam with two early bad shots. Grrr . . .
But 3 blocks already . . .
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - Hieronymus - 03-29-2024
Good news so far NC St isn’t crashing the glass much and our offense is running ok - their guards don’t have us too disrupted. Bad news is we are off target shooting pretty much across the board. Cams mid range shot has gone the same place her free throws went.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - martyup - 03-29-2024
More good news is that Cam seems to be keeping her cool.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - CompSci87 - 03-29-2024
Our shots are mostly a little short. Need to relax and let them fly.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. North Carolina State Friday 4:30 - Hieronymus - 03-29-2024
Kiki in and suddenly we have an offense.
Fouls are becoming a large problem for NC St bigs