Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread (/thread-21717.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread (/thread-21717.html)
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 06-19-2021
(06-18-2021, 10:14 PM)Giants Wrote: Gausman and Desclafani will be offered extensions later this summer. Will they take them? Time will tell.
The "X" factor for me will be injuries during the second half of the season. We've gone from a 60 game season to a 162 game season, and we're only 70 games into it. Injuries will take a toll -- they already have -- but as MLB extends the season, injuries will skew team records, in particular injuries to starting pitchers, who haven't pitched full seasons since 2019. Pitchers that last out the season with 32+ starts will command a heavy premium.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 06-19-2021
Caselli's triple should have been caught. The triple is the most exciting play in baseball. I was excited by my only one in college.
lex24 - lex24 - 06-19-2021
(06-18-2021, 10:14 PM)Giants Wrote:(06-18-2021, 09:33 PM)Goose Wrote:(06-18-2021, 09:10 PM)teejers1 Wrote:Crawford isn't getting 3 years from the Giants. The giants are good to go with home grown talent at SS and 2B in the near future. They aren't in the market to pay anyone big bucks there because they don't need to. I seriously doubt any team is going to sign up for a year of a 38 year old shortstop. The optics alone would be too bad to contemplate. Could some team be that silly? Possibly, never underestimate stupidity. However, I really don't expect it.(06-18-2021, 08:11 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(06-18-2021, 07:33 PM)teejers1 Wrote: 1. I think Craw will get a 3-year contract offer from several teams.
Trevor Story, Corey Seager, Carlos Correa and Javier Baez are all scheduled to become free agents after this season. Marcus Semien also, who is playing second base this season but is a shortstop. The Mets already signed Francisco Lindor long term. Crawford will be 35 at the start of next season; hard to imagine a robust market for him, which will work in the Giants favor if they want to re-sign him on a reasonable contract. Then again perhaps they will instead be in the market for one of the aforementioned options.
The guys you list (with possible exception of Story) will get 5+ year deals for gobs of money. I think Crawford at 3 years, at a lot less per, will be attractive to teams. We'll see (and this assumes, of course, that his numbers don't crater between now and the end of the season).
(06-18-2021, 06:36 PM)lex24 Wrote: I don’t think Posey has “refused” to play first regularly.Actually, I think he has. Not publicly, but for quite some time the Giants have wanted to find a way to extend his career. However, he likes being a cather, he is good at it, and that is the end of it as far as he is concerned.
Quote:He simply has been significantly more valuable as a catcher Which remains the case. Actually I’ve always thought that if he was going to move out from behind the plate, third base would be his best option.I have no argument about third vs first, other than playing third is generally considered a more difficult task than playing first. While Posey has certainly contributed greatly as a catcher, keeping him around for 5 more year as a hitter has it's merits as well. I think that is what the Giants wanted to do, but by now it is probably too late.
Quote:My guess is the will look to sign him to a 2 year deal, with perhaps a team option. They aren’t going to exercise the option at 22 million.You are correct. However, what do they do if Posey says he will just retire if they don't pick up the option? I think that is a very probable outcome. He doesn't need to play two more years for the money, especially if it is a total less than 22 million, but 22 million for one year might do it. Publicity wise, he has all the cards.
I believe that Crawford and Posey will finish their careers with the Giants. Both will be offered a contract (2 years with an option/buyout for a 3rd). They have stated on several occasions that they want to stay with the Giants.
Belt might be offered an extension but he will certainly look around. I suspect he will leave for a nice contract elsewhere.
Gausman and Desclafani will be offered extensions later this summer. Will they take them? Time will tell.
In the meantime, Zaidi needs to upgrade the bullpen without giving up any high level prospects - a daunting task. If he threads the needle, the Giants will be set for the short term.
Responding to Goose.
There was no thought of moving Posey during “the run”. Bochy used him at first some to get his bat in the lineup. You may be right that around ‘16 or so they would have liked to see him move. But at that point, I’m thinking he wasn’t valuable as a full time first baseman. Which is, to me, a pure power position. That’s why I thought third would be better. He played SS before he was moved to catcher at FSU. So I think he would have been fine.
I agree with Teejers in that I don’t think he’s money driven at this point . (Although I think he’s represented by Scott Boras. He was coming out of college. They held firm at his number. Giants signed him about an hour before the deadline). If he thinks the Giants can contend, I suspect that will be a factor. Especially if they commit to spending on others.
I suspect he’s more concerned about his legacy. Finishing with the Giants cements that. I’m sure they are already designing the statue and that will happen no matter what. But playing an entire career for one organization is special these days.
I do agree that he will be in a great bargaining position (assuming he stays healthy. And there is never a guarantee of that for a catcher). If he sits on the option, it will be tough for the Giants to exercise the buy out. I would hate to see that. (Now if he’s ready to retire, that changes everything. But I’m guessing he wants to play a couple more. I think his body will be the determining factor on that score)
RE: lex24 - DC 86 - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 10:09 AM)lex24 Wrote: Although I think he’s represented by Scott Boras.
He's represented by CAA (Jeff Berry) who negotiated his signing bonus out of FSU and his $167 million extension back in 2013.
lex24 - lex24 - 06-19-2021
(06-17-2021, 06:01 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(06-17-2021, 04:40 PM)French Rage Wrote: 44-25. In 2016 as this point they were 43-26. Hopefully no more parallels!
Still miffed that Bochy took out Moore in T9 against the Cubs in their final (playoff) game that season . . .
The only playoff series Bochy lost with the Giants. He was remarkable in ‘10, ‘12 and ‘14 with his in game decisions. Almost never missed. Rolled a seven damn near every time. And while the Core Four was there that whole time, the teams had a different closer each of the three. Sooner or later, you are going to roll craps. The ninth inning was certainly that. (One story as an aside. After the game Santiago Casilla was crying in the locker room. Inconsolable. Bochy didn’t use him in the 9th cause he didn’t trust him at that point. Santiago took it hard. He was an interesting part of that run. Got a lot of fan grief. Was not as consistent as the others. But he was a major piece of that pen. A great Giant, as they say.)
Couple other tidbits on what was a remarkable run. First, I believe the Giants were underdogs in every series they played. (With the possible exception of the ‘10 NLDS vs the Braves. But I think the Braves were favored.). They were big underdogs in all series in ‘12 and ‘14. (I’m not counting WC game as a series. One game crapshoot. And Bochy had the ultimate weapon.). Second, they were 8-0 in elimination games.
‘16 was a bizarre year. They had a great first half and then collapsed in the second half. (I truly hope we wont be saying that about the ‘21 Giants.) And yeah, he probably should have stuck with Moore (although we don’t know what was discussed etc. Possible Moore was gassed. After all, Bochy was not shy about sending his starters back out. If anything his reputation was sticking a bit too long).
The big miss in ‘16 was not getting Melancon at the deadline. He was a premier closer at that point. Giants couldn’t close the deal. Then they compounded the error by signing him in ‘17, at a time when there were some rumors of arm trouble. Which turned out to be the case. Now he’s healthy again. And a premier closer once again. Timing is everything high leverage inning relievers and closers. Almost all get hurt at some point.
RE: lex24 - Goose - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 10:09 AM)lex24 Wrote: Responding to Goose.Makes sense. I agree that it was earlier in his career that they were urging him to consider moving. I think Boch supported the idea that a player has the right to say no to such a thing, because after all it is their career. It was a lot easier to do since Posey was/is such a good catcher. At this point it is probably way too late to matter.
There was no thought of moving Posey during “the run”. Bochy used him at first some to get his bat in the lineup. You may be right that around ‘16 or so they would have liked to see him move. But at that point, I’m thinking he wasn’t valuable as a full time first baseman. Which is, to me, a pure power position. That’s why I thought third would be better. He played SS before he was moved to catcher at FSU. So I think he would have been fine.
Quote:I agree with Giants in that I don’t think he’s money driven at this point . (Although I think he’s represented by Scott Boras. He was coming out of college. They held firm at his number. Giants signed him about an hour before the deadline). If he thinks the Giants can contend, I suspect that will be a factor. Especially if they commit to spending on others.Agree with most of the above. What I don't totally agree with is the idea that going from an average of 18 million a year over the past 9 years down to a considerably lower number will sit well with Posey. I am pretty sure he would sign up to play two more years for what he makes this year. He may take less, but as it becomes much less it will seem like an insult. Then the legacy takes on a different spin. The Giants need to walk a fine line and not do anything that may sour things with Posey. Hopefully they can make it a win-win deal, but I fear that won't be as easy as it seems. His agent could also polarize the situation more that Posey or the Giants would do on their own. I do think if he doesn't sign with the Giants he will retire. He won't go shopping, although he may threaten to do so if things go pear-shaped.
I suspect he’s more concerned about his legacy. Finishing with the Giants cements that. I’m sure they are already designing the statue and that will happen no matter what. But playing an entire career for one organization is special these days.
I do agree that he will be in a great bargaining position (assuming he stays healthy. And there is never a guarantee of that for a catcher). If he sits on the option, it will be tough for the Giants to exercise the buy out. I would hate to see that. (Now if he’s ready to retire, that changes everything. But I’m guessing he wants to play a couple more. I think his body will be the determining factor on that score)
RE: lex24 - lex24 - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 10:31 AM)Goose Wrote:(06-19-2021, 10:09 AM)lex24 Wrote: Responding to Goose.Makes sense. I agree that it was earlier in his career that they were urging him to consider moving. I think Boch supported the idea that a player has the right to say no to such a thing, because after all it is their career. It was a lot easier to do since Posey was/is such a good catcher. At this point it is probably way too late to matter.
There was no thought of moving Posey during “the run”. Bochy used him at first some to get his bat in the lineup. You may be right that around ‘16 or so they would have liked to see him move. But at that point, I’m thinking he wasn’t valuable as a full time first baseman. Which is, to me, a pure power position. That’s why I thought third would be better. He played SS before he was moved to catcher at FSU. So I think he would have been fine.
Quote:I agree with Giants in that I don’t think he’s money driven at this point . (Although I think he’s represented by Scott Boras. He was coming out of college. They held firm at his number. Giants signed him about an hour before the deadline). If he thinks the Giants can contend, I suspect that will be a factor. Especially if they commit to spending on others.Agree with most of the above. What I don't totally agree with is the idea that going from an average of 18 million a year over the past 9 years down to a considerably lower number will sit well with Posey. I am pretty sure he would sign up to play two more years for what he makes this year. He may take less, but as it becomes much less it will seem like an insult. Then the legacy takes on a different spin. The Giants need to walk a fine line and not do anything that may sour things with Posey. Hopefully they can make it a win-win deal, but I fear that won't be as easy as it seems. His agent could also polarize the situation more that Posey or the Giants would do on their own. I do think if he doesn't sign with the Giants he will retire. He won't go shopping, although he may threaten to do so if things go pear-shaped.
I suspect he’s more concerned about his legacy. Finishing with the Giants cements that. I’m sure they are already designing the statue and that will happen no matter what. But playing an entire career for one organization is special these days.
I do agree that he will be in a great bargaining position (assuming he stays healthy. And there is never a guarantee of that for a catcher). If he sits on the option, it will be tough for the Giants to exercise the buy out. I would hate to see that. (Now if he’s ready to retire, that changes everything. But I’m guessing he wants to play a couple more. I think his body will be the determining factor on that score)
Analytics have completely changed contract negotiations for veterans. No longer are they paid on what they did in the past. It is based upon projections for the future. A new CBA I suspect will make some adjustments to deal with that. Most notably the number of years a team has control over players. I suspect that to bevreduced. That’s something I would really fight for if I was in the Union.
Posey and Crawford have a special place in the hearts of Giant’s fans. But I’m not sure this regime cares too much about that. Now if it affects them at the gate – that of course would be a factor
RE: lex24 - Mick - 06-19-2021
(06-19-2021, 10:26 AM)lex24 Wrote: And while the Core Four was there that whole time, the teams had a different closer each of the three. Sooner or later, you are going to roll craps. The ninth inning was certainly that. (One story as an aside. After the game Santiago Casilla was crying in the locker room. Inconsolable. Bochy didn’t use him in the 9th cause he didn’t trust him at that point. Santiago took it hard. He was an interesting part of that run. Got a lot of fan grief. Was not as consistent as the others. But he was a major piece of that pen. A great Giant, as they say.)
Totally agree. Relievers are usually pretty consistent. Rob Nen and Brian Wilson saved 86% of their chances in their salad days, Rod Beck was 85%, Romo was 87% as a primary reliever. Casilla was just 79%. Not horrible, but noticeably behind the others.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-20-2021
The newest Giant.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brebbjo01.shtml
The closer ?
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 06-20-2021
(06-20-2021, 11:36 AM)BobK Wrote: The newest Giant.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brebbjo01.shtml
The closer ?
Maybe. He's only pitched at Oracle five times, but he's been lit up (2.357 WHIP at Oracle/AT&T). His general stats are stong.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-20-2021
Well hasn’t pitched in awhile so could be another Farham special
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-20-2021
Long with 6 great innings and our newbie with a perfect inning. Plus 4 HRs and another win
Just incredible
Long from Del Campo HS in Sacramento like a famous former Giant. Who is?
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 06-20-2021
Dusty.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-20-2021
Can’t fool you
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - old spanish trail - 06-20-2021
(06-20-2021, 04:29 PM)BobK Wrote: Long with 6 great innings and our newbie with a perfect inning. Plus 4 HRs and another winWho are these guys? Plus, lots of consternation in our house trying to connect to Peacock...and anger at Giants' participation.
Just incredible
Long from Del Campo HS in Sacramento like a famous former Giant. Who is?
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-20-2021
I gave up on Peacock. Not worth with the live stats on the espn App
lex24 - lex24 - 06-20-2021
(06-20-2021, 04:29 PM)BobK Wrote: Long with 6 great innings and our newbie with a perfect inning. Plus 4 HRs and another win
Just incredible
Long from Del Campo HS in Sacramento like a famous former Giant. Who is?
Long looked very good. Great curveball. Good command. Ahead of hitters. I think the Giants are very high on him.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 06-20-2021
Peacock was fine for me. Long was excellent, really looked good. Hope he can keep it up.
Giants are doing pretty well right now. You'll note that in 55% of the seasons below, they went to the postseason:
- won the WS (2014)
- went to the WS (1962)
- went to the wild card game (2016)
- went to the division series (1971, 2003)
Or they went 103-59, and got screwed (1993, finished 2nd of 7 teams behind Braves. Wild cards started the next year). Or they finished 3rd of 6, going 89-73 (1978). Or finished 4th, going 90-72 (1964). Or 2nd of 10 (1966) 93-68.
![[Image: E4HrpBVVgAESl05?format=png&name=900x900]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4HrpBVVgAESl05?format=png&name=900x900)
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 06-21-2021
Farhan’s next dilemma: Dickerson and Ruf are coming off the DL. Two guys have to go. Tauchman is out of options. Slater looks lost at the plate. However he can fill in at second or first.
Maybe time to deal somebody(ies). Go after Brad Hand before he becomes costly at the trade deadline.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-21-2021
Wade and Vosler sent down.