Outside Topic OT: 2022 Niners thread - Printable Version
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RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-24-2022
When did the term “Game Manager” for a QB become a dig? I get it - everybody wants a Mahomes or Allen. They don’t, however, grow on trees.
To me, the No1 job of any QB is to execute the offensive scheme they’re given. To “manage the game” if you will. Was there ever a better “game manager” than Joe Montana. He ran Walsh’s offense to perfection, spreading the ball out, getting it quickly and in stride to his playmakers. That in and of itself made him a very very good QB. What made him one of the best ever is that he could also extend and make plays when he had to. He also had remarkable vision and presence.
Mahomes and Allen, as examples, first are terrific at running their respective offenses. Then there is the X factor both of them have. The ability to extend, make plays downfield and (particularly Allen) run. (Buffalo has a lot of runs designed for Allen. Personally, I’d cut way back on those. Save them for the big games.)
The hot ticket with QBs now are dual threat guys. Fields, Wilson, Lance all fitting that bill. Extending the play ability. But first, a QB has to be able to run a system. Fields has yet to show he can run an NFL offense. Although admittedly he has very little to work with. Wilson has been hurt. But also hasn’t shown much. Lance, well you know. (Lawrence is also not lighting it up. But he’s improved quite a bit. And the oft criticized “game manager” Mac Jones was the best of the rookie QBs in 22. He also had the most to work with. Alas, now hurt.)
Which brings me to Jimmy G. The problem is not he’s a “game manager”. The problem is, he is exceedingly limited. When he has a clean pocket and can throw to receivers between the numbers, he’s very good. Look at the first couple drives vs KC. (He also made a very nice extend play on the TD to Ray Ray). But it ends there. He lacks a downfield arm. He doesn’t throw well outside the numbers and he doesn’t seem to have a lot of pocket presence.
I would be very happy to have a good “game manager” at QB. Maybe if the O-line improves as they regain health and CMac gets incorporated into the offense Jimmy G will be just that. If so, the Niners still have a shot. The Rams game is obviously h.u.g.e. Duh.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 10-24-2022
Andy Reid may be a great offensive mind, but he's also got an Offensive Coordinator. Let's not pretend the Chefs were somehow great on defense. They gave up 450 yards to a team that continually shot itself in the foot. The reality is that was a game you had to score a lot of points to win, and Shanahan couldn't get his team to play without making mistake after mistake after mistake. Well coached teams don't play like that.
Shanahan has shown he can't win a low scoring defensive struggle or a game Punters aren't needed this year. It's great defense and atrocious offense or bad defense and mistake-prone offense. I honestly don't know how a team that plays so poorly in half its games has any wins at all.
Phogge is correct that the Niners miss their starting DTs in a very significant way.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - BostonCard - 10-24-2022
(10-24-2022, 08:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Shanahan has shown he can't win a low scoring defensive struggle…
Did I hallucinate this game?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401326631
BC
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 10-24-2022
(10-24-2022, 10:20 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(10-24-2022, 08:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Shanahan has shown he can't win a low scoring defensive struggle…
Did I hallucinate this game?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401326631
BC
No, but you are being as pedantic as usual. "This year" MEANS this SEASON.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Giants - 10-24-2022
(10-24-2022, 10:53 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-24-2022, 10:20 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(10-24-2022, 08:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Shanahan has shown he can't win a low scoring defensive struggle…
Did I hallucinate this game?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401326631
BC
No, but you are being as pedantic as usual. "This year" MEANS this SEASON.
So, you are suggesting a sample size of two games (19-10 and 11-10) is sufficient to make the following statement, “Shanahan has shown that he can’t win a low scoring defensive struggle”.
Yikes, I wasn’t a math major but I do know that a sample size of two games is not enough to make that kind of comment.
The Court of Public Opinion rules in favor of BC. Court is adjourned.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 10-24-2022
(10-24-2022, 08:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I honestly don't know how a team that plays so poorly in half its games has any wins at all.
Perhaps they play really well in the other ones. . . .
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 10-24-2022
(10-24-2022, 12:25 PM)Giants Wrote:(10-24-2022, 10:53 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-24-2022, 10:20 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(10-24-2022, 08:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Shanahan has shown he can't win a low scoring defensive struggle…
Did I hallucinate this game?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401326631
BC
No, but you are being as pedantic as usual. "This year" MEANS this SEASON.
So, you are suggesting a sample size of two games (19-10 and 11-10) is sufficient to make the following statement, “Shanahan has shown that he can’t win a low scoring defensive struggle”.
Yikes, I wasn’t a math major but I do know that a sample size of two games is not enough to make that kind of comment.
The Court of Public Opinion rules in favor of BC. Court is adjourned.
The selective reading comprehension on this board is impressive. I said can't win a defensive struggle OR a game without punting. That is three games out of the three of those type games played. The other loss, Shanahan found another way to lose, though most. people - self included - give him a pass for the sheer number of starters not playing in the game. The three wins were by 14+ points. It's a tough road to hoe if you must outscore the opponent by 14+ points to win an NFL game.
BC didn't even make the point you are claiming he made. And the one he made was incorrect anyway; Shanahan has not one a tight defensive struggle of a game this season.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Giants - 10-24-2022
(10-24-2022, 04:19 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-24-2022, 12:25 PM)Giants Wrote:(10-24-2022, 10:53 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-24-2022, 10:20 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(10-24-2022, 08:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Shanahan has shown he can't win a low scoring defensive struggle…
Did I hallucinate this game?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401326631
BC
No, but you are being as pedantic as usual. "This year" MEANS this SEASON.
So, you are suggesting a sample size of two games (19-10 and 11-10) is sufficient to make the following statement, “Shanahan has shown that he can’t win a low scoring defensive struggle”.
Yikes, I wasn’t a math major but I do know that a sample size of two games is not enough to make that kind of comment.
The Court of Public Opinion rules in favor of BC. Court is adjourned.
The selective reading comprehension on this board is impressive. I said can't win a defensive struggle OR a game without punting. That is three games out of the three of those type games played. The other loss, Shanahan found another way to lose, though most. people - self included - give him a pass for the sheer number of starters not playing in the game. The three wins were by 14+ points. It's a tough road to hoe if you must outscore the opponent by 14+ points to win an NFL game.
BC didn't even make the point you are claiming he made. And the one he made was incorrect anyway; Shanahan has not one a tight defensive struggle of a game this season.
Oh…..
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-24-2022
FIRE SHANAHAN. The legendary OF demands it.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Goose - 10-24-2022
(10-24-2022, 06:30 PM)lex24 Wrote: FIRE SHANAHAN. The legendary OF demands it.Some day they will, but that day is not today.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Phogge - 10-24-2022
(10-24-2022, 06:42 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-24-2022, 06:30 PM)lex24 Wrote: FIRE SHANAHAN. The legendary OF demands it.Some day they will, but that day is not today.
Thanks Mr. Tolkien.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-25-2022
(10-24-2022, 09:22 PM)Phogge Wrote:(10-24-2022, 06:42 PM)Goose Wrote:(10-24-2022, 06:30 PM)lex24 Wrote: FIRE SHANAHAN. The legendary OF demands it.Some day they will, but that day is not today.
Thanks Mr. Tolkien.
Actually, I was thinking “Gladiator “.
Be interesting to see how CMac is used. Heard Matt Maioco (spelling) talking about how Shanahan had a package of pass plays for McKinnon and how devastated he was when he went down.
I think it’s time to stop using Deebo in the backfield. CMac 1. Wilson 2. They are more than sufficient. Deebo needs to get back to being a premium WR. He isn’t right now.
Put up or shut up time. If they beat the Rams, I think they will win the division. If they lose, they are in big trouble. I know that’s a fairly obvious statement….
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - BostonCard - 10-25-2022
Lol, I hadn’t even noticed the “this year”, because it was so ridiculous to think that between last season and this season someone would flat out lose the ability to win low-scoring games (which is a debatable “ability” to even have). Your sweeping generalization sounds like one of those “just so” stats that announcers like to make. Like, “Coach is 9-3 in Monday night games played in domed stadiums against NFC South teams in October.”
As Giants noted, you have an n of 3 and two degrees of freedom (low scoring or punters not needed, so basically low OR high scoring games). Add to that the fact that you are restricting it to “this year” and you now have as many variables as examples, so you are overfitting your observations. More broadly, you love to make aggressive, sweeping generalizations based on limited datasets, and I think that’s really funny, because if there is one thing I’ve learned from decades of watching sports it’s that one way to be made to look a fool is to make an overgeneral conclusion on the basis of very limited data points.
Hey, it’s a message board, and what good is a message board if not to see fools make fools of themselves (myself included). But it is funny to me to see it, and forgive me if I amuse myself by pointing it out.
Your statement was dumb. Take the L and come back with a stronger analysis next time.
BC
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 10-25-2022
(10-25-2022, 07:59 AM)lex24 Wrote: Actually, I was thinking “Gladiator “.
Be interesting to see how CMac is used. Heard Matt Maioco (spelling) talking about how Shanahan had a package of pass plays for McKinnon and how devastated he was when he went down.
I think it’s time to stop using Deebo in the backfield. CMac 1. Wilson 2. They are more than sufficient. Deebo needs to get back to being a premium WR. He isn’t right now.
Put up or shut up time. If they beat the Rams, I think they will win the division. If they lose, they are in big trouble. I know that’s a fairly obvious statement….
Heard the same clip this morning, I think. I hope Shanahan can be creative with CMac. However, a shiny new toy doesn't fix some glaring issues on both sides of the ball. One perplexing comment I heard from Papa, was that JG looked fabulous in practice throwing the deep ball. What happens on game day? Just one area to resolve.
If the Niners lose, they will be 3-5. They then have a bye week followed by an allegedly friendly set of games. If I recall correctly, they were 3-5 last year and ended up being a play or two away from the Super Bowl.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - old spanish trail - 10-25-2022
My guess is that they have a tough time keeping the pocket clean enuf for deep passes. One pass pro disaster (McG), two inexprienced OL, one third year fill in at various positions, and one All Pro who is excellent but was lead footed enuf Sunday to allow an important sack.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-26-2022
(10-25-2022, 12:58 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: My guess is that they have a tough time keeping the pocket clean enuf for deep passes. One pass pro disaster (McG), two inexprienced OL, one third year fill in at various positions, and one All Pro who is excellent but was lead footed enuf Sunday to allow an important sack.
Banks has been excellent on pass protection. McGlinchey…. Not so good.Overall, the line improving now that’s its relatively healthy is a key moving forward.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - old spanish trail - 10-26-2022
(10-26-2022, 07:07 AM)lex24 Wrote:(10-25-2022, 12:58 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: My guess is that they have a tough time keeping the pocket clean enuf for deep passes. One pass pro disaster (McG), two inexprienced OL, one third year fill in at various positions, and one All Pro who is excellent but was lead footed enuf Sunday to allow an important sack.
Banks has been excellent on pass protection. McGlinchey…. Not so good.Overall, the line improving now that’s its relatively healthy is a key moving forward.
Thanks for the correction. you are right about Banks.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 10-27-2022
Hadn't looked at the standings at all this season. Quite surprising. There are several seemingly mediocre teams with very good/great records (Giants, Jets, Vikings) and a lot of mediocre teams with mediocre records. Aside from the Bills, Chiefs and apparently the Eagles, who's really any good?
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Phogge - 10-27-2022
(10-27-2022, 12:28 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Hadn't looked at the standings at all this season. Quite surprising. There are several seemingly mediocre teams with very good/great records (Giants, Jets, Vikings) and a lot of mediocre teams with mediocre records. Aside from the Bills, Chiefs and apparently the Eagles, who's really any good?
Never liked the Eagles. P******. Really like Creedence and love Stevie Nicks. All the guys at one time wanted to ............
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - BobK - 10-27-2022
Wanted to. Darn right Phogge