Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Printable Version
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lex24 - lex24 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 07:41 AM)Mick Wrote:(06-25-2021, 01:54 AM)lex24 Wrote:(06-24-2021, 11:36 PM)Giants Wrote: With about five weeks left before the trade deadline, time to play, “If you were Zaidi”.
Would you trade Joey Bart for Max Scherzer?
Note: Scherzer would have to approve the trade and will be a free agent at the end of the season.
Scherzer would give SF insurance against the back end of the rotation going south during the second half, allow the Giants to shift Long to the bullpen to plug the long relief hole and give the team a solid threesome in the playoffs - Gausman, DeSclafani and Scherzer. In effect, the trade would move SF’s playoff chances from “glad to be here” to “who are those guys and where did they come from”.
OTOH, Dealing Bart would be a of immense proportions risk. He could blossom into a star for the Nats playing key position and, of course, Scherzer is just a rental.
Personally, I would make the deal. A very reasonable shot at one more parade with Posey, Crawford and Belt is too good to pass up. How about you?
Assuming the Giants are still at or near the top, I’d do that trade in a heartbeat. I suspect Scherzer would accept it. SF is a good place to pitch. I doubt the Nats would do it.
I think the Nats would want another potential starter and would prefer Hjelle. I'd do the trade because five of SF's big contracts come off this year. I'd do it tomorrow. I think Scherzer would want to join a team on track to win 105 games with the best record in baseball.
Giants now 48-26, on track to win 105.
Currently ranked 3rd in MLB on OPS and 4th in runs scored, 3rd in ERA, 1st in WHIP, 4th in fewest runs given up, 3rd in fielding percentage and 3rd in fewest errors.
Farhan/Scott/Kapler have created a juggernaut...why not add Scherzer?
And just for fun...the A's have the 2nd best record in the AL. Are you ready for another Bay Bridge series?
Giants are not going to win 105 games. I’m still a little skeptical of this run. Losing Belt ( I’m betting it’s an ACL and hoping I’m wrong) is a big blow. The biggest issue is the schedule. Which is crazy. They next play Pads on Sep 13. They will play 10 times - including last 3. Meanwhile, Dodgers have a nice time playing Colorado and Arizona. They do end with Milwaukee.
I have my eyes set on second WC. Cause I don’t see them beating either LA or SD over long haul. Still, that we are talking of that as a real possibility is terrific.
RE: lex24 - Goose - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 07:41 AM)Mick Wrote: And just for fun...the A's have the 2nd best record in the AL. Are you ready for another Bay Bridge series?I think we will get another important data point about the Giants from this series. For some reason, the Giants always seem to under perform against the As. The don't show as well as they do against other teams for unknown reasons. If they don't do well in this series, it doesn't mean they are a "flash in the pan", but it would mean they aren't a "juggernaut". OTOH, if they do play well, I would be much more willing to believe they are "for real".
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Giants - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 06:34 AM)Phogge Wrote: Yes. But would the Nats want a young pitcher too?
In my opinion, that would take Bart off the table.
Regardless, Harrison is untouchable. I think he has the brightest future of any of the Giants pitching prospects.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 10:08 AM)Giants Wrote:(06-25-2021, 06:34 AM)Phogge Wrote: Yes. But would the Nats want a young pitcher too?
In my opinion, that would take Bart off the table.
Regardless, Harrison is untouchable. I think he has the brightest future of any of the Giants pitching prospects.
Agreed re: Harrison. I'd try to include Hjelle. He's 24, pitching at AA, 3.48 ERA, but has 42 strikeouts in 33 2/3 innings...and has given up 5 HRs. Wouldn't mind giving up either Beck, Swiney or (if they need a catcher) Bailey.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Giants - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 10:52 AM)Mick Wrote:(06-25-2021, 10:08 AM)Giants Wrote:(06-25-2021, 06:34 AM)Phogge Wrote: Yes. But would the Nats want a young pitcher too?
In my opinion, that would take Bart off the table.
Regardless, Harrison is untouchable. I think he has the brightest future of any of the Giants pitching prospects.
Agreed re: Harrison. I'd try to include Hjelle. He's 24, pitching at AA, 3.48 ERA, but has 42 strikeouts in 33 2/3 innings...and has given up 5 HRs. Wouldn't mind giving up either Beck, Swiney or (if they need a catcher) Bailey.
Hjelle is currently sidelined with a bad back. I wonder about his future given his size. Could this back issue portend future problems?
Going out on a limb here... I think Bailey may be a better prospect than Bart. It will be interesting to follow them as they move up the ladder.
RE: lex24 - teejers1 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 08:06 AM)lex24 Wrote:(06-25-2021, 07:41 AM)Mick Wrote:(06-25-2021, 01:54 AM)lex24 Wrote:(06-24-2021, 11:36 PM)Giants Wrote: With about five weeks left before the trade deadline, time to play, “If you were Zaidi”.
Would you trade Joey Bart for Max Scherzer?
Note: Scherzer would have to approve the trade and will be a free agent at the end of the season.
Scherzer would give SF insurance against the back end of the rotation going south during the second half, allow the Giants to shift Long to the bullpen to plug the long relief hole and give the team a solid threesome in the playoffs - Gausman, DeSclafani and Scherzer. In effect, the trade would move SF’s playoff chances from “glad to be here” to “who are those guys and where did they come from”.
OTOH, Dealing Bart would be a of immense proportions risk. He could blossom into a star for the Nats playing key position and, of course, Scherzer is just a rental.
Personally, I would make the deal. A very reasonable shot at one more parade with Posey, Crawford and Belt is too good to pass up. How about you?
Assuming the Giants are still at or near the top, I’d do that trade in a heartbeat. I suspect Scherzer would accept it. SF is a good place to pitch. I doubt the Nats would do it.
I think the Nats would want another potential starter and would prefer Hjelle. I'd do the trade because five of SF's big contracts come off this year. I'd do it tomorrow. I think Scherzer would want to join a team on track to win 105 games with the best record in baseball.
Giants now 48-26, on track to win 105.
Currently ranked 3rd in MLB on OPS and 4th in runs scored, 3rd in ERA, 1st in WHIP, 4th in fewest runs given up, 3rd in fielding percentage and 3rd in fewest errors.
Farhan/Scott/Kapler have created a juggernaut...why not add Scherzer?
And just for fun...the A's have the 2nd best record in the AL. Are you ready for another Bay Bridge series?
Giants are not going to win 105 games. I’m still a little skeptical of this run. Losing Belt ( I’m betting it’s an ACL and hoping I’m wrong) is a big blow. The biggest issue is the schedule. Which is crazy. They next play Pads on Sep 13. They will play 10 times - including last 3. Meanwhile, Dodgers have a nice time playing Colorado and Arizona. They do end with Milwaukee.
I have my eyes set on second WC. Cause I don’t see them beating either LA or SD over long haul. Still, that we are talking of that as a real possibility is terrific.
I happen to agree that losing Belt would be a big blow, but that seems to be a minority position in these parts, given how much Belt is dumped on around here. Those who have battered Belt in these parts are DQed from opining that this development will hurt the Giants.
The more long-term problem is that players will revert to average - namely, Posey, Crawford, and even Longo (assuming he comes back and plays regularly). Also, Cueto is a wild card (ceiling of pretty good, floor of awful); and Webb (surprised how much he is missed) and Wood . . . do you trust them in high leverage situations?
But what I do like about this team: no hitter appears overmatched when they come to the plate. (I'll remove Tauchman from this statement because he is fiddling with his swing now and is lost). Or perhaps more accurately, no one looks timid up there. Even Dubon, whom I consider to be the least strong hitter of the folks who play a decent amount, takes his hacks looking to do damage (last game excepted). So while the Giants have no true stars, they do have a bunch of players who can do some damage in each and every game. That is encouraging and provides hope.
Still . . . like many . . . I am waiting for the lug bolts to loosen and a wheel or two to come off. I just hope the skidding doesn't last too long when it does happen.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 06-25-2021
If you are an analytics guy like Farhan Belt is a star. They will miss his defense.
I would hold on to Corry, perhaps Harrison. I wouldn't think many (if any) trade deadline pitchers would veto a trade to the Giants.
RE: lex24 - Giants - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 11:28 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(06-25-2021, 08:06 AM)lex24 Wrote:(06-25-2021, 07:41 AM)Mick Wrote:(06-25-2021, 01:54 AM)lex24 Wrote:(06-24-2021, 11:36 PM)Giants Wrote: With about five weeks left before the trade deadline, time to play, “If you were Zaidi”.
Would you trade Joey Bart for Max Scherzer?
Note: Scherzer would have to approve the trade and will be a free agent at the end of the season.
Scherzer would give SF insurance against the back end of the rotation going south during the second half, allow the Giants to shift Long to the bullpen to plug the long relief hole and give the team a solid threesome in the playoffs - Gausman, DeSclafani and Scherzer. In effect, the trade would move SF’s playoff chances from “glad to be here” to “who are those guys and where did they come from”.
OTOH, Dealing Bart would be a of immense proportions risk. He could blossom into a star for the Nats playing key position and, of course, Scherzer is just a rental.
Personally, I would make the deal. A very reasonable shot at one more parade with Posey, Crawford and Belt is too good to pass up. How about you?
Assuming the Giants are still at or near the top, I’d do that trade in a heartbeat. I suspect Scherzer would accept it. SF is a good place to pitch. I doubt the Nats would do it.
I think the Nats would want another potential starter and would prefer Hjelle. I'd do the trade because five of SF's big contracts come off this year. I'd do it tomorrow. I think Scherzer would want to join a team on track to win 105 games with the best record in baseball.
Giants now 48-26, on track to win 105.
Currently ranked 3rd in MLB on OPS and 4th in runs scored, 3rd in ERA, 1st in WHIP, 4th in fewest runs given up, 3rd in fielding percentage and 3rd in fewest errors.
Farhan/Scott/Kapler have created a juggernaut...why not add Scherzer?
And just for fun...the A's have the 2nd best record in the AL. Are you ready for another Bay Bridge series?
Giants are not going to win 105 games. I’m still a little skeptical of this run. Losing Belt ( I’m betting it’s an ACL and hoping I’m wrong) is a big blow. The biggest issue is the schedule. Which is crazy. They next play Pads on Sep 13. They will play 10 times - including last 3. Meanwhile, Dodgers have a nice time playing Colorado and Arizona. They do end with Milwaukee.
I have my eyes set on second WC. Cause I don’t see them beating either LA or SD over long haul. Still, that we are talking of that as a real possibility is terrific.
I happen to agree that losing Belt would be a big blow, but that seems to be a minority position in these parts, given how much Belt is dumped on around here. Those who have battered Belt in these parts are DQed from opining that this development will hurt the Giants.
The more long-term problem is that players will revert to average - namely, Posey, Crawford, and even Longo (assuming he comes back and plays regularly). Also, Cueto is a wild card (ceiling of pretty good, floor of awful); and Webb (surprised how much he is missed) and Wood . . . do you trust them in high leverage situations?
But what I do like about this team: no hitter appears overmatched when they come to the plate. (I'll remove Tauchman from this statement because he is fiddling with his swing now and is lost). Or perhaps more accurately, no one looks timid up there. Even Dubon, whom I consider to be the least strong hitter of the folks who play a decent amount, takes his hacks looking to do damage (last game excepted). So while the Giants have no true stars, they do have a bunch of players who can do some damage in each and every game. That is encouraging and provides hope.
Still . . . like many . . . I am waiting for the lug bolts to loosen and a wheel or two to come off. I just hope the skidding doesn't last too long when it does happen.
Posey is a star. Right now he is a borderline HOFer as well as a spot on the San Francisco Giants Mt. Rushmore (Mays, Marichal, McCovey and Posey). That qualifies him for stardom.
As for this season, Gausman is as good as any pitcher in the league west of Queens and DeSclafani has been a revelation.
Heck, Posey, Crawford and Gausman are locks for the All-Star team.
RE: lex24 - Mick - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 11:48 AM)Giants Wrote: Posey is a star. Right now he is a borderline HOFer as well as a spot on the San Francisco Giants Mt. Rushmore (Mays, Marichal, McCovey and Posey). That qualifies him for stardom.
As for this season, Gausman is as good as any pitcher in the league west of Queens and DeSclafani has been a revelation.
Heck, Posey, Crawford and Gausman are locks for the All-Star team.
Pretty good formula for success. All-Star catcher, All-Star shortstop, no other weak links. BTW, according to ESPN, Gausman is the #2 MLB player by WAR at 4.2. Crawford is #21 overall at 2.9. Duggar is #52 at 2.3 WAR. Desclefani is #63 at 2.2. Buster is #80 at 2.0. Yastrzemski and Longoria are #89 at 1.9. Those are our top 100 in WAR, per ESPN.
According to baseballreference.com, here's the MLB WAR rank by position for the Giants (SP=Starting Pitching, RP=Relief Pitching):
C: #1 (1.1)
SS: #3 (2.0)
RF: #4 (1.0)
1B: #5 (0.7)
CF: #5 (1.4)
3B: #9 (1.0)
SP: #10 (3.8)
LF: #16 (-0.4)
RP: #18 (-1.5)
2B: #22 (-0.2)
lex24 - lex24 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 03:18 PM)Mick Wrote:(06-25-2021, 11:48 AM)Giants Wrote: Posey is a star. Right now he is a borderline HOFer as well as a spot on the San Francisco Giants Mt. Rushmore (Mays, Marichal, McCovey and Posey). That qualifies him for stardom.
As for this season, Gausman is as good as any pitcher in the league west of Queens and DeSclafani has been a revelation.
Heck, Posey, Crawford and Gausman are locks for the All-Star team.
Pretty good formula for success. All-Star catcher, All-Star shortstop, no other weak links. BTW, according to ESPN, Gausman is the #2 MLB player by WAR at 4.2. Crawford is #21 overall at 2.9. Duggar is #52 at 2.3 WAR. Desclefani is #63 at 2.2. Buster is #80 at 2.0. Yastrzemski and Longoria are #89 at 1.9. Those are our top 100 in WAR, per ESPN.
According to baseballreference.com, here's the MLB WAR rank by position for the Giants (SP=Starting Pitching, RP=Relief Pitching):
C: #1 (1.1)
SS: #3 (2.0)
RF: #4 (1.0)
1B: #5 (0.7)
CF: #5 (1.4)
3B: #9 (1.0)
SP: #10 (3.8)
LF: #16 (-0.4)
RP: #18 (-1.5)
2B: #22 (-0.2)
“WAR, uh, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again….”
It has no true relationship to a players value to his team.
RE: lex24 - teejers1 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 11:48 AM)Giants Wrote: Posey is a star. Right now he is a borderline HOFer as well as a spot on the San Francisco Giants Mt. Rushmore (Mays, Marichal, McCovey and Posey). That qualifies him for stardom.
As for this season, Gausman is as good as any pitcher in the league west of Queens and DeSclafani has been a revelation.
Heck, Posey, Crawford and Gausman are locks for the All-Star team.
Barry Bonds instead of Posey on Rushmore. Hell, Bonds instead of all of them . . . except Mays.
lex24 - lex24 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 06:27 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(06-25-2021, 11:48 AM)Giants Wrote: Posey is a star. Right now he is a borderline HOFer as well as a spot on the San Francisco Giants Mt. Rushmore (Mays, Marichal, McCovey and Posey). That qualifies him for stardom.
As for this season, Gausman is as good as any pitcher in the league west of Queens and DeSclafani has been a revelation.
Heck, Posey, Crawford and Gausman are locks for the All-Star team.
Barry Bonds instead of Posey on Rushmore. Hell, Bonds instead of all of them . . . except Mays.
Mays, Bonds and Posey are the three most important SF Giants. Mays cause he is the best. Gave SF immediately a superstar. Bonds because they possibly don’t get the park built without him. And Posey because he was the face of the franchise during their only three championships. The fourth on Rushmore is Stretch. Barely over Juan. Reason being McCovey might be the most beloved SF Giant. Hard to leave Juan off. He’s my favorite Giants pitcher of all time. An artist. I loved to watch him pitch. But as great as he was he did not have the impact of the other four.
RE: lex24 - Giants - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 06:27 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(06-25-2021, 11:48 AM)Giants Wrote: Posey is a star. Right now he is a borderline HOFer as well as a spot on the San Francisco Giants Mt. Rushmore (Mays, Marichal, McCovey and Posey). That qualifies him for stardom.
As for this season, Gausman is as good as any pitcher in the league west of Queens and DeSclafani has been a revelation.
Heck, Posey, Crawford and Gausman are locks for the All-Star team.
Barry Bonds instead of Posey on Rushmore. Hell, Bonds instead of all of them . . . except Mays.
Three rings as the de facto captain of the team earned Posey a spot in the top quartet. HR records and no rings earned Bonds first alternate...
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - lex24 - 06-25-2021
So, my guess is Belt is out for the year.
I have a hard time believing the Giants will stick with a platoon of Ruf and Wade at first. It might be that you see Buster at first against lefties. That frees Ruf to play left with Slater in Center and Yaz in right. (Assuming they don’t pick up a Rh bat at the deadline) Maybe 25 starts at First and 40 behind the plate the second half. That’s assuming he stays healthy. No guarantee.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 06-25-2021
I thought I'd read that Buster at 1B is off the table. The OPS of Ruf (.895) and Wade (.814) aren't all that different from Belt (.875).
The Giants have an old team, the oldest roster in the NL, and the only one averaging over 30 years old (30.7).
Giants now on a run rate to win 106 games. Unlikely they will win 106. Probably more like 110...;).
A's seem loaded to me. A very nice 2-0 shutout win over the A's and their #2 starter Sean Manaea, by Johnny Cueto, our #4 starter, with help from Rogers and McGee.
I believe that's 11 shutouts by the Giants this season, tops in the majors. Next most is 8.
RE: lex24 - DC 86 - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 09:47 PM)Giants Wrote: Three rings as the de facto captain of the team earned Posey a spot in the top quartet. HR records and no rings earned Bonds first alternate...
Bonds has the same number of rings as Mays, McCovey and Marichal, however he also won five MVP awards while on the Giants.
RE: lex24 - Mick - 06-25-2021
(06-25-2021, 08:08 AM)Goose Wrote:(06-25-2021, 07:41 AM)Mick Wrote: And just for fun...the A's have the 2nd best record in the AL. Are you ready for another Bay Bridge series?I think we will get another important data point about the Giants from this series. For some reason, the Giants always seem to under perform against the As. The don't show as well as they do against other teams for unknown reasons. If they don't do well in this series, it doesn't mean they are a "flash in the pan", but it would mean they aren't a "juggernaut". OTOH, if they do play well, I would be much more willing to believe they are "for real".
Agreed. Oakland was 5-1 against SF last season, though the G's were 3-1 against OAK in 2019. OAK beat SF on 3/28 by a score of 9-3 and SF beat OAK on 3/29 by a score of 7-2. But the 2-0 win tonight is strong evidence that things are doing well.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-26-2021
Oh no I’ll miss Belt taking the third strike
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - lex24 - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 06:25 AM)BobK Wrote: Oh no I’ll miss Belt taking the third strike
Belt wars…. The symbol of analytics vs traditionalists. Overrated by the metric guys as they focus more on his OPS - which is skewed a bit as he walks so much ( itself valuable, but not as much in his case as the metric junkies think). Underrated by the traditionalist folks who feel he takes too many pitches and should hit more HR’s.
Thing is, he’s a darn good player. And a key cog. Sure he takes more called thirds then he should. But overall he’s a better than average first baseman. And far better than any replacement the Giants have.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 08:36 AM)lex24 Wrote:(06-26-2021, 06:25 AM)BobK Wrote: Oh no I’ll miss Belt taking the third strike
Belt wars…. The symbol of analytics vs traditionalists. Overrated by the metric guys as they focus more on his OPS - which is skewed a bit as he walks so much ( itself valuable, but not as much in his case as the metric junkies think). Underrated by the traditionalist folks who feel he takes too many pitches and should hit more HR’s.
Thing is, he’s a darn good player. And a key cog. Sure he takes more called thirds then he should. But overall he’s a better than average first baseman. And far better than any replacement the Giants have.
I think the reason for the antipathy towards Belt is that he was declining as a player, with three consecutive seasons of declining OPS in 2017, 2018 and 2019. He achieved his potential with the new batting coaches in 2020 and was having a strong 2021. Those years were his #1 and #2 OPS years in an 11 year career so far.