Outside Topic OT: 2022 Niners thread - Printable Version
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RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - French Rage - 11-14-2022
Did the refs also force them to decline a penalty that would have put the Commanders out of FG range?
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - BostonCard - 11-15-2022
Also the refs didn’t make the Eagles commit an unnecessary roughness penalty when Heineke was already down on third down (though Heineke did play it up for the refs). lots of coulda woulda for the Eagles.
BC
(11-14-2022, 10:28 PM)French Rage Wrote: Did the refs also force them to decline a penalty that would have put the Commanders out of FG range?
This was defensible. Washington would have replayed the third down and it is only a five yard penalty, so anything more than five yards on third and long would have netted out positively for Washington, and there is always the possibility that they would have gained the 17 yards they needed for a first down, or drawn a Philadelphia penalty that would result in an automatic first down. Plus a 55 yard field goal is no gimme, even in the pros.
BC
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 11-15-2022
I get wanting to read whatever you want into what someone posts so you can jump on it and show off your internet smart/tough guy act to compensate for whatever inadequacies you are feeling in your life elsewhere, but sometimes - like this time - you are arguing a point that wasn't even made. And then more of you pile on with your own straw men to win other arguments that weren't being made.
My point about it being criminal that Samuel and Kittle combined for 3 catches is in the context of them being amongst the highest paid players at their positions in the NFL. You can pay a lot less money for what they are producing. Why the urge to jump all the way to "well if you are so smart, why don't you be the coach?" Aside from this not being the point I was making, how does claiming someone can do better imply the people who think that believe they are the ones who can? It's just an idiotic, lazy, dull-minded thing to say because you are incapable of arguing the stated point. Much easier to argue one that wasn't made!
And stop it with this "you can't see the whole field so how can you know," B.S. Terry McClaurin has the same agent as Deebo Samuel, and he is by far and away the Washington team's best player. The fact is when you go to games and sit high enough in the stands, you can see open receivers the QB never throws to, ALL THE TIME.
The Niners are paying Kittle and Samuel Top 5 at their position salaries and getting not even Top 25 production from them combined. While I don't buy the "you can't see the defense, so maybe they aren't open" stuff for a second because other teams get their best players the ball, what makes their underuse and lack of production criminal is that they are being paid way more than they are producing. How does it make sense to pay for Top 5 production when you are getting less than average results? Yes, Kittle is a great blocker, but the Niners are 20th in the NFL in YPC. The Niners are #4 in YPA but #15 in TD passes, and they are below average scoring TDs in the Red Zone.
Now, I will grant that if the playoffs started today the Niners would be in, we don't know how they will do, and teams with more productive players would be out. But this is a team that should be producing much more on offense with the talent it has on that side of the ball. The Niners have never in their history had an All Pro TE, All Pro WR, and All Pro RB, at same time, and therefore, also not an All Pro LT, at the same time too, all of which they have now.
I suspected Mike McDaniel - who's team is scoring 7 PPG more than Shanahan's - was the reason for Shanahan's success before he went to Miami as HC. Each week the evidence is piling up to make this case. They play each other in three weeks, so get ready for this media narrative to take root if the Niners don't put up more points against Arizona on MNF and the following week vs. Saints, two teams with not great defenses.
Maybe Shanahan is playing a certain style trying to prepare his team to win in the playoffs, and sacrificing meaningless regular season stats for being able to win the biggest post season games. The Niners do have the #1 Defense in the NFL - even with the blood letting against Kansas City on their ledger - so maybe there is a method to the muted offense madness in regular season. We will see.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 07:20 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I get wanting to read whatever you want into what someone posts so you can jump on it and show off your internet smart/tough guy act to compensate for whatever inadequacies you are feeling in your life elsewhere, but sometimes - like this time - you are arguing a point that wasn't even made. And then more of you pile on with your own straw men to win other arguments that weren't being made.
My point about it being criminal that Samuel and Kittle combined for 3 catches is in the context of them being amongst the highest paid players at their positions in the NFL. You can pay a lot less money for what they are producing. Why the urge to jump all the way to "well if you are so smart, why don't you be the coach?" Aside from this not being the point I was making, how does claiming someone can do better imply the people who think that believe they are the ones who can? It's just an idiotic, lazy, dull-minded thing to say because you are incapable of arguing the stated point. Much easier to argue one that wasn't made!
And stop it with this "you can't see the whole field so how can you know," B.S. Terry McClaurin has the same agent as Deebo Samuel, and he is by far and away the Washington team's best player. The fact is when you go to games and sit high enough in the stands, you can see open receivers the QB never throws to, ALL THE TIME.
The Niners are paying Kittle and Samuel Top 5 at their position salaries and getting not even Top 25 production from them combined. While I don't buy the "you can't see the defense, so maybe they aren't open" stuff for a second because other teams get their best players the ball, what makes their underuse and lack of production criminal is that they are being paid way more than they are producing. How does it make sense to pay for Top 5 production when you are getting less than average results? Yes, Kittle is a great blocker, but the Niners are 20th in the NFL in YPC. The Niners are #4 in YPA but #15 in TD passes, and they are below average scoring TDs in the Red Zone.
Now, I will grant that if the playoffs started today the Niners would be in, we don't know how they will do, and teams with more productive players would be out. But this is a team that should be producing much more on offense with the talent it has on that side of the ball. The Niners have never in their history had an All Pro TE, All Pro WR, and All Pro RB, at same time, and therefore, also not an All Pro LT, at the same time too, all of which they have now.
I suspected Mike McDaniel - who's team is scoring 7 PPG more than Shanahan's - was the reason for Shanahan's success before he went to Miami as HC. Each week the evidence is piling up to make this case. They play each other in three weeks, so get ready for this media narrative to take root if the Niners don't put up more points against Arizona on MNF and the following week vs. Saints, two teams with not great defenses.
Maybe Shanahan is playing a certain style trying to prepare his team to win in the playoffs, and sacrificing meaningless regular season stats for being able to win the biggest post season games. The Niners do have the #1 Defense in the NFL - even with the blood letting against Kansas City on their ledger - so maybe there is a method to the muted offense madness in regular season. We will see.
Shanahan is widely considered to be the top offensive mind in football outside of Andy Reid. They got off to a slow start this year. First game was played in a monsoon. Then starting QB hurt. JG started slowly given lack of reps and need to build arm strength.( He’s playing well now, btw). Mitchell was hurt. Williams. Deebo. Kittle.
In other words, he hasn’t had all the weapons you point to for much of the year. He now has CMac to integrate into the offense. 8 games left. I expect the offense to continue to get better.
I do agree that he needs to get Deebo and Kittle more targets. Also like to see Deebo catch the ball downfield a bit. But first and foremost, he’s a run oriented coach. Unless forced, they aren’t going to throw 40 times. Niners will pound. They almost never lose when they run it 30 times. And it helps them play complimentary football. Their defense is still the stronger unit.
Be interesting to see how he uses his RBs. He’s always gone with a “committee” and the hot hand. Saw that a bit Sun night as Mitchell got more second half carries. If both stay healthy I expect to see more time with both on the field. Either in split back pistol or with CMac in slot.
RZ can improve. But sometimes that’s an execution issue. Ayuck dropped a gimme TD and Mitchell slipped on third down (although I doubt he scores on that, Chargers had good penetration)l. But Ayuck drop plus missed xtra is 5 points. 27 not so bad…..
McDaniel is doing a terrific job. He learned from Shanahan. Not vice-versa. (Shanahan had success as an OC at Atlanta before he came to SF) Does he miss his input? Perhaps. But your notion that Shanahan is lacking is, imo, sorely misplaced.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Phogge - 11-15-2022
LOL OF.
One difference between you and me is that I get paid by the NFL while you sit there and pontificate. I must be doing something right with 11 national Emmy nominations and 55 years of making a living all over the world.
Tough guy? Not at my age. But if being in combat zones, under fire, in concealed positions not even the FBI would enter in territory controlled by the mob, the Hells Angels and Teamster goons, sitting outside a helo tracking stallions 10 feet off the ground, having three shots lodge in a helo inches from ny head, being beaten by police more than once and other times where my crews lives were at stake made me tough when I was younger well yes I was a tough guy.
Time to show your cards as an OC, QB coach, GM, ex-player, whatever. Otherwise all you are is a complainer.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - French Rage - 11-15-2022
https://youtu.be/9QGQtJL7hSk
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 08:42 AM)Phogge Wrote: LOL OF.
One difference between you and me is that I get paid by the NFL while you sit there and pontificate. I must be doing something right with 11 national Emmy nominations and 55 years of making a living all over the world.
Tough guy? Not at my age. But if being in combat zones, under fire, in concealed positions not even the FBI would enter in territory controlled by the mob, the Hells Angels and Teamster goons, sitting outside a helo tracking stallions 10 feet off the ground, having three shots lodge in a helo inches from ny head, being beaten by police more than once and other times where my crews lives were at stake made me tough when I was younger well yes I was a tough guy.
Time to show your cards as an OC, QB coach, GM, ex-player, whatever. Otherwise all you are is a complainer.
Congratulations on winning an argument nobody made but yourself.
And if one reads the posts on this board, it is pretty clear who complains the most and I might add beats dead horses until they are glue.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Phogge - 11-15-2022
Yep. It’s clear who complains the most. You.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - BostonCard - 11-15-2022
[tweet]https://twitter.com/dril/status/134787490526658561?s=46&t=jD0xxE4f6I6ic40pSyvSMA[/tweet]
BC
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - BostonCard - 11-22-2022
There was a game today, wasn’t there?
BC
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 11-22-2022
Phogge has nothing to complain about so he isn't posting.
Loved the game plan against the Cardinals in Mexico. The 14/15 pass plays, followed by a lot of running, really seemed to take advantage of a loosened up Cardinals defense. Was concerned McCoy might slice and dice the Niners like he did last year, but by and large, the DL kept him in the pocket and did a great job allowing catches but making sure tackles. Armstead and Kinlaw are both expected to return soon, so Niners might be getting even better there too.
Brandon Aiyuk was awesome as a run blocker and cashed in 2 RZ TD catches. McCaffrey moved the chains consistently. OL did great job. Niners D has not allowed a point in 2nd half in 3-straight games and have outscored all division opponents by 80 points combined.
Vaulting from #3 to #6 in the playoff chase is not bad for a day's work.
Gotta give Tim Kawakami credit. He wrote a column after Chargers win that the offense was about to explode. One game against a bottom third defense doesn't put scoring concerns to rest, but it's better than the alternative!
The Niners are now #8 in yards per game and #1 in yards per game allowed, and #11 in PPG and #4 in PPG allowed; #5 in point differential.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 11-22-2022
(11-22-2022, 06:07 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Phogge has nothing to complain about so he isn't posting.
Loved the game plan against the Cardinals in Mexico. The 14/15 pass plays, followed by a lot of running, really seemed to take advantage of a loosened up Cardinals defense. Was concerned McCoy might slice and dice the Niners like he did last year, but by and large, the DL kept him in the pocket and did a great job allowing catches but making sure tackles. Armstead and Kinlaw are both expected to return soon, so Niners might be getting even better there too.
Brandon Aiyuk was awesome as a run blocker and cashed in 2 RZ TD catches. McCaffrey moved the chains consistently. OL did great job. Niners D has not allowed a point in 2nd half in 3-straight games and have outscored all division opponents by 80 points combined.
Vaulting from #3 to #6 in the playoff chase is not bad for a day's work.
Gotta give Tim Kawakami credit. He wrote a column after Chargers win that the offense was about to explode. One game against a bottom third defense doesn't put scoring concerns to rest, but it's better than the alternative!
The Niners are now #8 in yards per game and #1 in yards per game allowed, and #11 in PPG and #4 in PPG allowed; #5 in point differential.
Wait, does this mean Shanahan actually can coach? Even without McDaniels.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - BostonCard - 11-22-2022
Also, Garopolo: 20/29 for 228 yards (7.9 yea), 4 TD, 0 INT, 0 times sacked, PER of 131.9
Not bad for a guy many wanted to trade.
BC
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 11-22-2022
(11-22-2022, 08:06 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Also, Garopolo: 20/29 for 228 yards (7.9 yea), 4 TD, 0 INT, 0 times sacked, PER of 131.9
Not bad for a guy many wanted to trade.
BC
Including me. Funny how things work. He’s playing extremely well. Although he still has a tendency to throw high over the middle. Concern there is getting a receiver hurt.
Adding McCaffrey was a game changer. In part cause defenses have to key on him. Opens up so much else. I’d still like to see Deebo go downfield once in awhile. Also Mitchell and CMac as split backs in pistol. I think we will see the latter in games moving forward.
Maybe the best news Monday was Kittle. Who had become somewhat forgotten in the passing game. He’s a beast. Gotta feed him some.
Have to keep the stars healthy. Duh. No mean feat in the NFL. If they do, Niners should be a postseason factor.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - GK3 - 11-22-2022
(11-15-2022, 08:42 AM)Phogge Wrote: LOL OF.
One difference between you and me is that I get paid by the NFL while you sit there and pontificate. I must be doing something right with 11 national Emmy nominations and 55 years of making a living all over the world.
Tough guy? Not at my age. But if being in combat zones, under fire, in concealed positions not even the FBI would enter in territory controlled by the mob, the Hells Angels and Teamster goons, sitting outside a helo tracking stallions 10 feet off the ground, having three shots lodge in a helo inches from ny head, being beaten by police more than once and other times where my crews lives were at stake made me tough when I was younger well yes I was a tough guy.
Time to back off a little. You are not the only guy on this board who done tough things. I get the need to brag once in a while, but this board doesn't really seem the place.
Time to show your cards as an OC, QB coach, GM, ex-player, whatever. Otherwise all you are is a complainer.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 11-22-2022
Haven’t heard anyone remark on this. During last nights game Aikman (who is my favorite NFL commentator) made two interesting comments. The first pertained to Lynch, who Aikman said is one of the most respected people to ever play in the NFL. That is quite a compliment.
Second, was his comment conveying his disgust at the Arizona defensive back that had a chance to tackle Kittle on his second TD near the the sideline. The back just let him go by. Clearly wanted no part of him at a time when the game was decided. You could hear how disgusted Aikman was. He commented on the play, or lack thereof and then on the abysmal Arizona performance. They quit. He called them out. Don’t hear TV commentators do that often.
Klingsbury was the it guy awhile back. He will be gone about a day after the season ends. If he makes it through the season. Tough business.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 11-22-2022
(11-22-2022, 10:10 AM)lex24 Wrote: Second, was his comment conveying his disgust at the Arizona defensive back that had a chance to tackle Kittle on his second TD near the the sideline. The back just let him go by. Clearly wanted no part of him at a time when the game was decided. You could hear how disgusted Aikman was. He commented on the play, or lack thereof and then on the abysmal Arizona performance. They quit. He called them out. Don’t hear TV commentators do that often.
The first time I saw the play it looked like defenders gave up. The first replay I saw left me with same impression. But there was another replay that gave me pause. It looked like the defender in question was going to hit a teammate, not a real clean route to Kittle. Do you sell your body out and risk injury to yourself and a teammate, trying to stop points 32-37 when already trailing by 21? I don't know if it is worth that risk. Still, it would be interesting to know how the Cardinals defender in question is assessed by his teammates in video review.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - French Rage - 11-22-2022
(11-22-2022, 09:04 AM)lex24 Wrote: Adding McCaffrey was a game changer. In part cause defenses have to key on him. Opens up so much else. I’d still like to see Deebo go downfield once in awhile. Also Mitchell and CMac as split backs in pistol. I think we will see the latter in games moving forward.
It is impressive to see how well the rushes were split among 3 players and the passes among 4 players. The presence of so many weapons does make it hard to zero in on any one of them at a time.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Mick - 11-22-2022
(11-22-2022, 10:10 AM)lex24 Wrote: Haven’t heard anyone remark on this. During last nights game Aikman (who is my favorite NFL commentator) made two interesting comments. The first pertained to Lynch, who Aikman said is one of the most respected people to ever play in the NFL. That is quite a compliment.
Second, was his comment conveying his disgust at the Arizona defensive back that had a chance to tackle Kittle on his second TD near the the sideline. The back just let him go by. Clearly wanted no part of him at a time when the game was decided. You could hear how disgusted Aikman was. He commented on the play, or lack thereof and then on the abysmal Arizona performance. They quit. He called them out. Don’t hear TV commentators do that often.
Klingsbury was the it guy awhile back. He will be gone about a day after the season ends. If he makes it through the season. Tough business.
All good points. I also liked Aikman's comment that if he was starting a team, he'd start with Kyle Shanahan as coach. Says he's respected both Lynch and Shanahan for years, that SF is doing it "the right way" and that SF is an old school team and he recognizes their skills and quality.
Seems to me there was another announcer with Aikman, but all I heard was Midwestern white noise from that guy...
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - lex24 - 11-26-2022
Deebo questionable for Sunday. Hamstring. Classic trap game. NO just good enough to be dangerous. Especially with 49ers coming out of a short week after a game played at high altitude.