Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread - Printable Version
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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-04-2023
(02-04-2023, 05:12 PM)Mick Wrote: Final thoughts on Correa, and the collective fan reaction to homegrowing players.
With respect to Correa, Jon Heyman of the New York Post made some interesting claims:
1) One of the doctors -- presumably either the SF Giants doctor or the NY Mets doctor -- said that Correa's ankle was "the worst they'd ever seen." My guess is the Mets' doctor, given that this was a WFAN.
2) Correa won the Platinum Glove in 2021, was 5th in MVP voting, had an .850 OPS and was just 26 and should theoretically have been in line for a of immense proportions payday. But he "only" got a three year deal...which he backed out of after the first year. Could there have been MLB-wide cognizance of his physical shortcomings?
3) Houston was willing to let him go after 2021 for...frankly...not all that much.
Giants made the right decision on Correa.
With respect to homegrowing players...this has been gnawing at the back of my head for a while. I keep hearing and reading about local Giants fans preferences for homegrowing players rather than bringing them in through trade or free agency. To my mind, if the Giants win 107 games, who cares where the players come from?
And then I thought about the popular homegrown Giants that led to the 2010, 12 and 14 WCS victors. Posey. Bumgarner. Cain. Lincecum. Belt. Crawford. Vogelsong. Panik. Duffy -- to say nothing of secondary draftees like Otero, Osich, Black, Runzler, Culberson, Wheeler, Reynolds, Gillaspie, Heston, Stratton, Susac, Crick, Tomlinson, Law, Okert, Blach, Beede, Rogers, Arroyo, Baragar, Menez, Duvall, Parker, Hembree, Williamson. All Caucasians. And a lot of the key players in 2021 were not Caucasian; e.g., Flores, Dubon, Solano, Wade, Estrada, Doval, Garcia, Tromp, Davis, Sanchez, Alvarez, Quintana, Peralta, Jackson, Santos, Moronta, Castro.
And of course, the white GM, Sabean and Quinn was replaced by a Muslim, Farhan Zaidi.
Could there be a little bit of racism in the collective Giants fan community? Just wondering.
If a Dr that saw Correa truly commented upon the severity of the injury, the Dr should face disciplinary proceedings.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-07-2023
Pitchers and catchers report next week. An appropriate time to Free Phogge.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 02-07-2023
The non roster invites
https://twitter.com/PavlovicNBCS/status/1622688010025451521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1622688010025451521%7Ctwgr%5E80f39e2d0f988e2196f6ae2db30db4029ca339f5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcsports.com%2Fbayarea%2Fgiants%2Fkyle-harrison-casey-schmitt-headline-giants-2023-non-roster-invitees
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-08-2023
(02-07-2023, 08:38 AM)BobK Wrote: The non roster invites
https://twitter.com/PavlovicNBCS/status/1622688010025451521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1622688010025451521%7Ctwgr%5E80f39e2d0f988e2196f6ae2db30db4029ca339f5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcsports.com%2Fbayarea%2Fgiants%2Fkyle-harrison-casey-schmitt-headline-giants-2023-non-roster-invitees
With two Stanford grads, Stephen Piscotty and Austin Slater, on the same team, the Giants are now assured of the NL pennant. One more Stanford grad and it will be their first odd-year World Series win since 1933. Quantrill, Lowrie, Jackson, Hoerner, Edman, Castro, Bubic, even Blandino or Appel...come on down!
Instead of another former Stanford player, the Giants signed former U. of Hartford / first round pick Sean Newcomb, who had one good year for the Braves in 2018, and has been allergic to throwing strikes ever since....seriously. He's averaged between 6 and 7.5 walks per nine innings for the last two years.
In other former 2021 Giants news, fastball-only closer Jake McGee retired.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-08-2023
(02-08-2023, 06:59 AM)Mick Wrote:(02-07-2023, 08:38 AM)BobK Wrote: The non roster invites
https://twitter.com/PavlovicNBCS/status/1622688010025451521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1622688010025451521%7Ctwgr%5E80f39e2d0f988e2196f6ae2db30db4029ca339f5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcsports.com%2Fbayarea%2Fgiants%2Fkyle-harrison-casey-schmitt-headline-giants-2023-non-roster-invitees
With two Stanford grads, Stephen Piscotty and Austin Slater, on the same team, the Giants are now assured of the NL pennant. One more Stanford grad and it will be their first odd-year World Series win since 1933. Quantrill, Lowrie, Jackson, Hoerner, Edman, Castro, Bubic, even Blandino or Appel...come on down!
Instead of another former Stanford player, the Giants signed former U. of Hartford / first round pick Sean Newcomb, who had one good year for the Braves in 2018, and has been allergic to throwing strikes ever since....seriously. He's averaged between 6 and 7.5 walks per nine innings for the last two years.
In other former 2021 Giants news, fastball-only closer Jake McGee retired.
Not to mention possibly setting up an Amador Valley- Foothill clubhouse rivalry. Piscotty faces long odds. He’s struggled last couple years.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - qwerty49 - 02-08-2023
(02-07-2023, 08:17 AM)lex24 Wrote: Pitchers and catchers report next week. An appropriate time to Free Phogge.
Phogge's still in jail? What did he do this time -- drive a fire engine into Lake Lag? Leave painted footprints climbing up and down the outside of Hoo Tow? Throw beer cans at the Oakland cops in White Plaza?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-08-2023
(02-08-2023, 11:25 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:(02-07-2023, 08:17 AM)lex24 Wrote: Pitchers and catchers report next week. An appropriate time to Free Phogge.
Phogge's still in jail? What did he do this time -- drive a fire engine into Lake Lag? Leave painted footprints climbing up and down the outside of Hoo Tow? Throw beer cans at the Oakland cops in White Plaza?
Not sure. Think he threw a high hard one.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 02-09-2023
(02-08-2023, 08:42 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-08-2023, 11:25 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:(02-07-2023, 08:17 AM)lex24 Wrote: Pitchers and catchers report next week. An appropriate time to Free Phogge.
Phogge's still in jail? What did he do this time -- drive a fire engine into Lake Lag? Leave painted footprints climbing up and down the outside of Hoo Tow? Throw beer cans at the Oakland cops in White Plaza?
Not sure. Think he threw a high hard one.
Appeared to be neither high nor hard. Rather a comment interpreted in a manner that was not his intent, but instead in the worst possible light.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-09-2023
(02-09-2023, 09:12 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(02-08-2023, 08:42 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-08-2023, 11:25 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:(02-07-2023, 08:17 AM)lex24 Wrote: Pitchers and catchers report next week. An appropriate time to Free Phogge.
Phogge's still in jail? What did he do this time -- drive a fire engine into Lake Lag? Leave painted footprints climbing up and down the outside of Hoo Tow? Throw beer cans at the Oakland cops in White Plaza?
Not sure. Think he threw a high hard one.
Appeared to be neither high nor hard. Rather a comment interpreted in a manner that was not his intent, but instead in the worst possible light.
Intentions and interpretations are funny things. I made a benign, bland post once -- didn't think anything of it -- and another board member kindly and professionally pointed out to me that I may have offended the person to whose post I was responding. I'd never met the poster to whom he was referring, but we'd exchanged a handful of messages on other common topics of interest. I edited the post, and reached out to apologize to my online friend and fellow Cardinal fan and he responded "I literally have no idea what you're talking about."
Hope he gets paroled soon.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-09-2023
(02-09-2023, 09:12 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(02-08-2023, 08:42 PM)lex24 Wrote:(02-08-2023, 11:25 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:(02-07-2023, 08:17 AM)lex24 Wrote: Pitchers and catchers report next week. An appropriate time to Free Phogge.
Phogge's still in jail? What did he do this time -- drive a fire engine into Lake Lag? Leave painted footprints climbing up and down the outside of Hoo Tow? Throw beer cans at the Oakland cops in White Plaza?
Not sure. Think he threw a high hard one.
Appeared to be neither high nor hard. Rather a comment interpreted in a manner that was not his intent, but instead in the worst possible light.
Which is how way too many comments are interpreted these days. So, hopefully he’s back soon.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-12-2023
ZiPS, known for their accurate computer models predicting MLB standings (among other things) currently project the SF Giants to have the sixth playoff spot. Specifically, here are their projected win totals for 2023:
Mets, 94 wins
Braves, 94 wins
Cardinals, 91 wins
Dodgers, 91 wins
Padres, 91 wins
Giants, 88 wins
Phillies, 85 wins
Brewers, 83 wins
Diamondbacks, 81 wins.
No other team projected at more than 78 wins.
The 2023 Start of Spring ZiPS Projected Standings: National League | FanGraphs Baseball
They were fairly accurate in 2022, at least in order. Their projected teams finished (in order), 1, 2, 5, 3, 4, 7, 8, 6. The Giants were the team that underperformed the most.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/looking-back-at-the-2022-zips-projections/
FanGraphs thinks Stanford's very own Austin Slater is the best role player in baseball. Slater's pinch-hit OPS is the best in MLB history (1.025) much better than Ted Williams' puny .953, or Albert Pujols' .948 -- and the article points out that he's a better fielder than you might think, tying a Gold Glove winner in a range metric:
Austin Slater, the Best Role Player in Baseball | FanGraphs Baseball
Former first round picks Chris Shaw and Kyle Crick are signing minor league deals with the White Sox and Rays, respectively. The Reds want Cueto back.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-12-2023
I was looking at the SF Giants schedule for my first game to attend. My parameters are a home, Mon-Thur game not against the Dodgers, but against a decent team. Don’t really want to see the Mets on UC Berkeley night. That leaves the St. Louis Cardinals on Monday, 4/24; Tuesday, 4/25 or Wednesday, 4/26 (St. Mary's night, so--not that one). The 4/25 game by total coincidence is Santa Clara University night, so that's the game.
In perusing the schedule, just a few quick observations:
1) The Giants' early home schedule is brutal: Mets, Dodgers, Cardinals -- the road schedule is forgiving, the Yankees and a bunch of second division AL clubs.
2) Just as an aside…I’m a little alarmed at how cheap the tickets are on StubHub. Not that I’m against paying lower prices, but that’s an indicator of what season attendance is going to be like. The Giants have had seven consecutive years of declining attendance, in part because they haven’t been a playoff team since 2015, in part because businesses have fled downtown SF because of COVID (less walkup business), in part because SF is such a shithole because of the social issues. 2015 attendance was 3.375 mms., 2022 attendance was 2.482 mms. I think signing Judge would have cut that in half.
3) I know people have been excoriating Farhan, but his winning percentage increased every year until last year -- and how much better off would he have been if Buster Posey played during the 2020/COVID year? The Giants missed the playoffs by a game. The Giants ranked 12th of 15 in WAR at the catcher position that year, Joey Bart’s rookie year with his .609 OPS and his 18% caught stealing rate. If Posey's in, they're in the playoffs.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BostonCard - 02-12-2023
I believe the Giants were a playoff team in 2021, when they won 107 games in the regular season and won the NL West.
BC
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-12-2023
(02-12-2023, 07:39 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I believe the Giants were a playoff team in 2021, when they won 107 games in the regular season and won the NL West.
BC
Right, I was referring to 2020 when the Brewers finished with the same record as the Giants at 29-31, but took the last playoff spot. Giants lost their last game 5-4, with a win, they're in the playoffs. And admittedly, it was a strange year with eight playoff teams. Still, if Posey plays all 2020, I think the Giants get in the playoffs, then...who knows?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BostonCard - 02-12-2023
I was commenting on this quote: “in part because they haven’t been a playoff team since 2015”
BC
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-12-2023
(02-12-2023, 08:50 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I was commenting on this quote: “in part because they haven’t been a playoff team since 2015”
BC
Oh right, of course. Everyone, myself included, is so busy hatin' on Gabe Kepler and Farhan that we forget about the 107 wins and the playoffs.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BostonCard - 02-12-2023
It is kind of crazy how a 107 win season seems to have been memory-holed. I think had the Giants made it past the first series, we might remember the season differently.
BC
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 02-13-2023
(02-12-2023, 11:56 PM)BostonCard Wrote: It is kind of crazy how a 107 win season seems to have been memory-holed. I think had the Giants made it past the first series, we might remember the season differently.
BC
Oh, but for a checked swing call. . . .
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 02-13-2023
(02-12-2023, 11:56 PM)BostonCard Wrote: It is kind of crazy how a 107 win season seems to have been memory-holed. I think had the Giants made it past the first series, we might remember the season differently.
BC
Sports are always “what have you done for me lately”. But I certainly haven’t forgotten 2021. It was amazing. It also was led by the “core” of Posey, Crawford Belt. One of the great parts of that season were those 3 shutting up people that said they were done.
It also wasn’t sustainable. Which I said repeatedly. They lost Posey. Crawford and Belt were bound to regress and to have the kind of good fortune they had in ‘21 was not likely to return.
If after ‘23 they have another year where they are out of the race by Mid August; have not had at least a couple prospects (Harrison and Schmidt being the most likely candidates) make the Show; and the farm system is still
considered a bottom tier system (I’ve seen it ranked by several at 18-20), then I suspect Zaidi will be on thin ice.
(02-13-2023, 07:57 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(02-12-2023, 11:56 PM)BostonCard Wrote: It is kind of crazy how a 107 win season seems to have been memory-holed. I think had the Giants made it past the first series, we might remember the season differently.
BC
Oh, but for a checked swing call. . . .
Worse was the Bryant AB. Fourth inning. Urias just in and hasn’t found it yet. Lead off hitter gets on. Bryant has two pitches called strikes that were well out of the zone. Otherwise he walks. 1st and 2nd no outs. Instead he struck out on a 3-2 pitch, that was really 5-1.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 02-13-2023
(02-13-2023, 08:09 AM)lex24 Wrote:(02-12-2023, 11:56 PM)BostonCard Wrote: It is kind of crazy how a 107 win season seems to have been memory-holed. I think had the Giants made it past the first series, we might remember the season differently.Sports are always “what have you done for me lately”. But I certainly haven’t forgotten 2021. It was amazing. It also was led by the “core” of Posey, Crawford Belt. One of the great parts of that season were those 3 shutting up people that said they were done.
BC
It also wasn’t sustainable. Which I said repeatedly. They lost Posey. Crawford and Belt were bound to regress and to have the kind of good fortune they had in ‘21 was not likely to return.
If after ‘23 they have another year where they are out of the race by Mid August; have not had at least a couple prospects (Harrison and Schmidt being the most likely candidates) make the Show; and the farm system is still considered a bottom tier system (I’ve seen it ranked by several at 18-20), then I suspect Zaidi will be on thin ice.
Despite improving the minor league system and improving the Giants winning percentage every year except last year, despite having literalliy a record winning year for the Giants, and despite having a winning percentage that is superior to Bochy's/Sabean's/Evans' regular season winning percentages, I think Zaidi is already on thin ice. This is the fifth year of his five-year agreement and no extension has been announced. He might be under the microscope already.
It's interesting...except for last year, the Giants improved in winning percentage every year, and missed the 2020 playoffs by a whisker. Personally, I think the Giants will win at least 86 games (ZiPS has them at 88 wins). I think they'll make the playoffs. I think every starter in the field has the potential to hit 20+ HRs, and I think the Giants will have more than 200 HRs this year.
With respect to 2021; Crawford, Belt and Posey were the unquestioned OPS leaders and had great seasons, but all of the starters had career OPS seasons except Longoria who had the second best season of his career. The Giants led the NL in team OPS and were second in HRs and second in the NL in runs scored. The perennially slow Giants were 17th in MLB in stolen bases, but they were second in MLB in stolen base percentage. Basically, everything was going right. The next season, everything went wrong, and they still finished 81-81. More to the point, the 1B consortium of Belt, Ruf, Flores and Wade had a season that was collectively far superior to the NL MVP's season; e.g, 48 HRs, and were better than that of any team at any position, with the best production from 1B that any Giants team has ever had, including the days of McCovey, Cepeda, Terry and the like.
I think 2022 was a perfect storm of negatives in the same way that 2021 was a perfect storm of positives, from the major league club to the minor league club. Law and MLB.com both rank the SFG minor league system #18 after two consecutive years at #8 and #9. And their system hasn't produced, despite Bailey and Schmitt winning minor league gold glove awards (only one per position was awarded). Speaking of which, Grant Brisbee of the Athletic had a pretty good article on SFG defense this year. Basically, the Giants' pitching staff is more built for ground balls than strikeouts and walks, so it depends on a good defense -- which isn't there, outside of Crawford. Only three NL teams allowed more balls in play than the Giants in 2022, but two of them -- Diamondbacks and Cardinals -- had the best and 4th best defense in MLB.
Outfield defense has improved with Conforto and Haniger, and Yaz and Slater as more or less permanent CF residents. Conforto is a very strong fielder, and so were Yaz and Slater in CF. Haniger takes good routes and has a strong arm. Crawford will be fine. Estrada -- yeesh. He's actually a very strong shortstop, not so much at 2B. Villar was solid, Wade at first was actually pretty good (Belt had his issues).