Stanford to the ACC? - Printable Version
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RE: Stanford to the ACC? - g1313 - 09-01-2023
Too bad the StanfordNYC plan from years ago fell through: https://stanfordmag.org/contents/stanford-withdraws-its-n-y-bid
(09-01-2023, 08:10 AM)ADPinWDC Wrote:(09-01-2023, 08:01 AM)grendalor Wrote:(09-01-2023, 06:50 AM)oman Wrote: I vote for a creation of a satellite campus in Central or Eastern Time zone to house athletes for their competitive seasons.
Honestly it isn't a crazy idea at all, although I wouldn't limit it to athletes. Maybe a semi-permanent, small campus in Texas or in DC or something which would be fulsome enough to allow both athletes and non-athletes to take a variety of classes, but not a full campus or anything close to it. Would make things easier on the athletes for certain. It seems like an odd thing to do, but then again joining the ATLANTIC coast conference, while the most sensible thing to do under the circumstances, is also an odd thing to do objectively, and may call for other oddities to make it more workable for our impacted students.
FASCINATING IDEA in a new landscape of Zoom / Google / Teams Classes on line.
[Didn't Stanford alums invent and commercialize a lot of the enabling technologies?]
There is a small Stanford campus in WDC for hosting seminars and some interns.
So, some kind of "Hopkins Marine Station" and Tele-Research facility in NC?
Research Triangle Park would be logical for Environmental Data Processing Center...
Do an 8-9 day swing to the East Coast and play a couple games. Save on travel / time zone shift.
We ARE a NATIONAL Univ (actually Global). Frankly ORST and WAST are not. That's just the case.
On-On...
RE: Mudhead - Farm93 - 09-01-2023
I feel like those that believe the Pac-12 was better are missing the mark here. The Pac-12 is gone. Forget about it. Athletes, and athletic departments, that dwell on the past are certain to fail now and in the future.
Stanford is just not a big fish in this tv revenue and ratings game. Stanford used its financial resources to buy a spot at the table. The Bay Area duo might offer incremental after midnight TV content for the ACC channel, but not much more.
FWIW - Clemson, FSU are more than capable of filling their football stadiums at 8PM Eastern, so I am guessing we will be the 8:30PM Pacific game most Saturdays. Even with that ACC after midnight downside, the biggest benefits of the ACC deal are recruiting clarity and transfer portal mitigation.
I believe Stanford could have cobbled together something for most of the sports with undesirable travel all over the USA to low profile programs. However that year to year uncertainty to below average D1 programs would have killed recruiting for this year and future years. I don't even want to imagine how busy the Stanford Registrar would have been with student-athlete transfer requests.
So yay for the ACC. Count our blessings that Stanford landed in a power conference. And just anticipate that 2024-2025 will make the things people complained about on this board in 2018-2019 feel quaint.
sweeneyr1@outlook.com - Acesn8s - 09-01-2023
First let me say even as a die hard Syracuse fan I hate to see the PAC 12 dissolve it’s a shame for college football. That being said welcome to the ACC, Syracuse has never really fit but most of us fans have grown to enjoy the league. I personally can’t wait for the new road trips. Best of luck this year, and hopefully see Stanford in the Loud House next year!
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - PAsportsfan - 09-01-2023
I see a lot of posts complaining about the size of...the life raft...
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - ElDoradoRed - 09-01-2023
That is the analogy I would use. Muir ran the Stanford Athletics ship aground, but with Condi’s help was able to deploy a life raft.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Langdude - 09-01-2023
The sentiments above sort of summarize where I am. I am really angry that the Pac 8/10/12, the Conference of Champions, is gone. There will be tons of post-mortems, I'd wager, that will continue to show us how it all came to pass. Leadership at Stanford, such as it is, shares in this blame.
NOW, given that the Pac is gone, the Big 10 or Big 12 would be the optimal landing spots, in my opinion, if we were to remain in a power conference, just for travel reasons. But those are not options; they do not want us. They probably would have wanted us about 10 years ago in our football heyday, but not now.
So, it's the ACC or - again, in my opinion - a continued slide into irrelevance in football and, I think, other sports. So I am grateful for the lifeboat and for those at Stanford and other schools (Notre Dame!) that made this happen. It's a very good outcome given where we are as a football team (which, like it or not, drives athletics at D1 schools) and the horrendous failures of Pac 12 leadership.
Frankly, I'm relieved. Angry and relieved.
-m.
Mudhead - Mudhead - 09-01-2023
.
(09-01-2023, 12:33 PM)StanfordMatt Wrote:Interesting perspective and welcome. I agree that we disagree, respectfully. At least we are making the moderators happy.(09-01-2023, 12:08 PM)Mudhead Wrote:(09-01-2023, 10:20 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I seem to be in the minority camp here...Today I have a smile on my face because Stanford just told the whole world "it's important to us to compete at the highest levels." The B10 and B12 were not interested. We were very much stuck. Any move to the MWC or the WCC or whatever Independent/combination solution people were dreaming up would have resulted in the deterioration of so many of our perennial national championship contending teams. While the travel will be onerous, if you asked the players on these teams "which would you prefer - compete in the ACC with more travel or compete against the MWC?", I'm quite certain what the answer would be. Thank goodness we got this done.
Well said. We can compare this to what wasn’t there .. a Pacific Coast Conference ..or celebrate that we got what was there..membership in a power four conference . It was a remarkable accomplishment to get this done. We had no negotiating leverage , no alternative and nothing any Power 4 conference needed. That is a very, very tough negotiating position.
That certainly is one way of looking at it. Respectfully, I disagree.
We’re essentially pimping our football program out, sending them cross country multiple times per season in exchange for revenue designed to keep the other programs afloat. Except wait a minute, we’re only getting pennies on the dollar in this deal so those programs’ futures are still tenuous at best.
The 12 ACC programs that ended up voting in favor of expansion did so to fatten their own pockets. None of those 12 have the ability to generate sizable revenue on their own (unlike UNC, Clemson and FSU), so they gladly agreed to take another check from ESPN for adding 3 programs while not sharing the proceeds with the newcomers. Not sure how much arm twisting that took from Stanford and Cal.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Mick - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 09:26 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(09-01-2023, 09:02 AM)grendalor Wrote:(09-01-2023, 08:58 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: With the ACC move, we'll get Cardinal versus Cardinals
That brings to mind a memory I have of the Gator Bowl in Jacksonville in 1986, and passing a concession on the way into the stadium that was selling T-Shirts blaring "Stanford Cardinals! Go Birds!".
Ah, the world before the internet.
PS -- We almost beat Clemson in that game! But that was an entirely different time in college football, and an entirely different Clemson program.
There were a couple of years where we actually WERE the birds. Not sure if one of them was '86, though.
I think it was Cardinals from around 1912 to 1930, then again from 1972-1981.
Stanford Cardinal football
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - BostonCard - 09-01-2023
Remind me again why being relevant in squash is important?
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/why-some-seats-at-elite-colleges-only-go-to-prep-school-students-60d3a9de?mod=djemwhatsnews
I only pick on squash because I actually played for a while after Stanford. It's a great sport, but do we really need to be giving partial scholarships and preferential admission to a sport where 90% of the top players went to private schools (at least the ones who went to play squash in the Ivy League, and I have little reason to expect it is different at Stanford)?
Quote:Most, if not all, will probably come from private high schools. Across the Ivy League, nearly 90% of the players on squash rosters who went to high school in the U.S. attended institutions with fees that start at around $30,000, according to a Wall Street Journal tally taken from rosters on university websites.
The demographics of most of the aptly named "country club" sports skew wealthy and White. We really should think long and hard about what we are actually saving by forcing our teams to fly cross country to compete, and whether it is worth it.
I think we lost the plot.
BC
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - fullmetal - 09-01-2023
No wonder UCLA wanted more money. They're spending money like a drunken sailor.
Pac-12 public institution revenue/costs/profit for '22-'23:
https://superwestsports.com/breaking-down-the-2022-23-pac-12-revenue-expenses/
Also, here are recent Power 5 revenue distributions per conference member:
https://www.deseret.com/2023/5/19/23730490/how-big-12-pac-12-compared-revenue-distribution-2022-fiscal-year
(09-01-2023, 03:54 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Remind me again why being relevant in squash is important?
I'm not saying that squash is the centerpiece of Stanford athletics, but the story is a nice one, at least it is when relayed through this article: https://squashmagazine.com/2008/07/mark-talbott-a-very-good-friend/
Hard to imagine that the team has been around for going on 18 years now. Seems like the Title IX balance and the light budget are in their favor. The roster has international representation and is not otherwise dominated by east coast presence. The coach is one of, if not the all-time, best in the US.
https://stanfordmag.org/contents/taking-a-chance
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Mick - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 11:08 AM)Snorlax94 Wrote: Yes I agree we shouldn’t have gotten into such a deep crisis, and I too am concerned about travel and payment distributions, but I also think Muir very much deserves the trip to paradise. He, along with many others, did get the deal done.
I think he deserves a trip to Paradise as well. Maybe not in the same sense that you do...
(09-01-2023, 03:08 PM)ElDoradoRed Wrote: That is the analogy I would use. Muir ran the Stanford Athletics ship aground, but with Condi’s help was able to deploy a life raft.
I may be in the minority here, but I wasn't wild about the way he handled the softball parent mutiny. Interesting when they will have to play Clemson, a program founded in 2017 with their first season in 2020 (and expertly coached by) Stanford's former coach John Rittman. He took them to a 49-12 record, and a #14 national ranking.
Would be doubly ironic if Stanford had to cut women's softball as a result of a budget shortfall.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - fullmetal - 09-01-2023
I have seen Muir speak over the years, and I have asked him many questions about my particular athletic expertise over the years. He's a great PR/politician in all contexts, and he'll never admit to there being anything wrong in the state of Denmark even when all the evidence points to it. In even such low stakes sports as my own, he won't give any insight, which speaks to a culture of excluding alumni donors from feeling connected to their programs.
It's what he does, that's his job, and I can't fault him for it. Maybe one day he'll think I'm important enough to be candid. I can't help but think that a Stanford alum in that position might feel differently.
I am glad Stanford Athletics took the thin lifeline that is ACC membership. We didn't have much of a choice. But we need to look for better footing because ACC membership is really just a lifeline.
leftcoast - Leftcoast - 09-01-2023
I have a 40 year history of loving Stanford sports and am thankful for the ACC lifeboat.
That being said, this sucks. With the move to the ACC, I love Stanford sports less today than I did a year ago and expect to love them less again next year. I don’t see that trend reversing soon. And, in the Bay Area there are lots of options. Don’t expect the average fan to be pleased by today’s news, it’s just lipstick and pigs.
How about that Giant baseball play-off chase anyway? And it’s a week until we get to watch Christian McCaffery and the 49ers, right? Plus, I’ve got a Fantasy Football draft on Sunday. I might catch the Stanford/Hawaii score somewhere in between, if I still care.
That’s what should worry our next AD
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Softball Fan - 09-01-2023
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/09/01/stanford-cal-joining-the-acc-is-really-thrilling-tara-vanderveer-says/
I suspect all Stanford coaches will put a positive spin on joining the ACC in their public statements regardless of what they think.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - 2006alum - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 04:58 PM)paloalto Wrote: https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/09/01/stanford-cal-joining-the-acc-is-really-thrilling-tara-vanderveer-says/
I suspect all Stanford coaches will put a positive spin on joining the ACC in their public statements regardless of what they think.
I think Tara means it. For WBB, this is a big step up from any other realistic options, and even from the Pac-12 for most of the past half decade. Notre Lame, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Duke, UNC, and NC State have all been great programs recently. Their fan bases are also vastly superior to everyone in the Pac but Oregon and Oregon State. (Washington's has been great but they've been in the cellar for the past half decades.)
Others have said it best. I'm angry it came to this, and sad about the Pac-12, but relieved to keep a seat at the table, and be in a conference of quality academic programs.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - M T - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 10:20 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I seem to be in the minority camp here...Today I have a smile on my face because Stanford just told the whole world "it's important to us to compete at the highest levels." ....Thank goodness we got this done.
Or, maybe joining the ACC was to compete at the lowest levels. If one tries to excuse the 15 years of reported UNC academic fraud scandal as too old (a decade ago, granted), Louisville sex scandal (2015), the game plan brokers (2016), the MBB corruption & fraud (2017, multi-conference but Louisville stands out), then how about last month?
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - rudruff - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 06:26 PM)M T Wrote:(09-01-2023, 10:20 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I seem to be in the minority camp here...Today I have a smile on my face because Stanford just told the whole world "it's important to us to compete at the highest levels." ....Thank goodness we got this done.
Or, maybe joining the ACC was to compete at the lowest levels. If one tries to excuse the 15 years of reported UNC academic fraud scandal as too old (a decade ago, granted), Louisville sex scandal (2015), the game plan brokers (2016), the MBB corruption & fraud (2017, multi-conference but Louisville stands out), then how about last month?
We have shared a conference with USC for over a century. I don't think the ACC is going to shock us.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Mick - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 06:29 PM)rudruff Wrote:(09-01-2023, 06:26 PM)M T Wrote:(09-01-2023, 10:20 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I seem to be in the minority camp here...Today I have a smile on my face because Stanford just told the whole world "it's important to us to compete at the highest levels." ....Thank goodness we got this done.
Or, maybe joining the ACC was to compete at the lowest levels. If one tries to excuse the 15 years of reported UNC academic fraud scandal as too old (a decade ago, granted), Louisville sex scandal (2015), the game plan brokers (2016), the MBB corruption & fraud (2017, multi-conference but Louisville stands out), then how about last month?
We have shared a conference with USC for over a century. I don't think the ACC is going to shock us.
Checkmate...
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Softball Fan - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 06:26 PM)M T Wrote:(09-01-2023, 10:20 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I seem to be in the minority camp here...Today I have a smile on my face because Stanford just told the whole world "it's important to us to compete at the highest levels." ....Thank goodness we got this done.
Or, maybe joining the ACC was to compete at the lowest levels. If one tries to excuse the 15 years of reported UNC academic fraud scandal as too old (a decade ago, granted), Louisville sex scandal (2015), the game plan brokers (2016), the MBB corruption & fraud (2017, multi-conference but Louisville stands out), then how about last month?
You can always cherry pick examples to promote a narrative. ACC fans could point to a Stanford President stepping down under a cloud, a swimmer accused of sexual assault, fraternities misbehaving, the university's discipline policy leading to an athlete's suicide, and so on. I think your broad brush portrayal of the ACC is unfair.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Giants - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 06:32 PM)Mick Wrote:(09-01-2023, 06:29 PM)rudruff Wrote:(09-01-2023, 06:26 PM)M T Wrote:(09-01-2023, 10:20 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I seem to be in the minority camp here...Today I have a smile on my face because Stanford just told the whole world "it's important to us to compete at the highest levels." ....Thank goodness we got this done.
Or, maybe joining the ACC was to compete at the lowest levels. If one tries to excuse the 15 years of reported UNC academic fraud scandal as too old (a decade ago, granted), Louisville sex scandal (2015), the game plan brokers (2016), the MBB corruption & fraud (2017, multi-conference but Louisville stands out), then how about last month?
We have shared a conference with USC for over a century. I don't think the ACC is going to shock us.
Checkmate...
Add to that the fact that ASU is the record holder for the most penalties issued by the NCAA (not counting the upcoming censure for violating COVID restrictions re: recruiting).