Football Recruiting Class of 2023 - Printable Version
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RE: Class of 2023 - Phogge - 07-26-2022
Superstar definition: “... one who is a prime attraction.” Webster’s.
“Dunking on you.” Whatever the hell that means, no. Is that a street ball term? I’m not even pitching a bit inside. Ended with an LOL. I could go all Thunderdome but not my intention. Relax.
To each his own. Superstar to me is Mickey Mantle, Bill Russell, Jim Brown, Ingrid Bergman, Spencer Tracy, Buddy Holly. Not an obscure OG.
RE: Class of 2023 - murky - 07-26-2022
(07-26-2022, 09:48 PM)Phogge Wrote: Superstar definition: “... one who is a prime attraction.” Webster’s.
“Dunking on you.” Whatever the hell that means, no. Is that a street ball term? I’m not even pitching a bit inside. Ended with an LOL. I could go all Thunderdome but not my intention. Relax.
To each his own. Superstar to me is Mickey Mantle, Bill Russell, Jim Brown, Ingrid Bergman, Spencer Tracy, Buddy Holly. Not an obscure OG.
Matt probably could have just used the term "star" and forestalled this turn of the conversation.
But he was clear that he was just using that as a name to apply to his objective criteria, so he didn't have to say the phrase "1st or 2nd team All Pac 12 player" every time.
RE: Class of 2023 - LDN/SG Card - 07-28-2022
DL Cameron Brandt just got a crystal ball for the good guys from Greg Biggins.... fingers crossed - Cameron set to announce this weekend.
Seems like it would be an important commit given recent "issues" on the Dline.
RE: Class of 2023 - OutsiderFan - 07-29-2022
(07-28-2022, 08:35 PM)LDN/SG Card Wrote: DL Cameron Brandt just got a crystal ball for the good guys from Greg Biggins.... fingers crossed - Cameron set to announce this weekend.
Seems like it would be an important commit given recent "issues" on the Dline.
Stanford's MO should just be to recruit DL Cal offers, maybe even all defensive players Cal offers. Wilcox knows how to identify guys who can play defense. Compare the recruit ratings of the players Wilcox puts on the field and the performance of Cal's Defense to the ratings of the guys playing for Stanford and the performance of Shaw's Defense. You'll see the numbers back this up.
RE: Class of 2023 - TrumpCard - 07-29-2022
I’m happy about any recruit who has offers from 10 Pac-12 schools, whether or not kal is one of them. Brandt is a key potential piece of this class.
RE: Class of 2023 - SamuelMcF - 07-29-2022
(07-29-2022, 05:10 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(07-28-2022, 08:35 PM)LDN/SG Card Wrote: DL Cameron Brandt just got a crystal ball for the good guys from Greg Biggins.... fingers crossed - Cameron set to announce this weekend.
Seems like it would be an important commit given recent "issues" on the Dline.
Stanford's MO should just be to recruit DL Cal offers, maybe even all defensive players Cal offers. Wilcox knows how to identify guys who can play defense. Compare the recruit ratings of the players Wilcox puts on the field and the performance of Cal's Defense to the ratings of the guys playing for Stanford and the performance of Shaw's Defense. You'll see the numbers back this up.
At least 2/3 of our defensive commits in the past few years have had Cal offers.
RE: Class of 2023 - OutsiderFan - 07-29-2022
(07-29-2022, 09:42 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(07-29-2022, 05:10 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(07-28-2022, 08:35 PM)LDN/SG Card Wrote: DL Cameron Brandt just got a crystal ball for the good guys from Greg Biggins.... fingers crossed - Cameron set to announce this weekend.
Seems like it would be an important commit given recent "issues" on the Dline.
Stanford's MO should just be to recruit DL Cal offers, maybe even all defensive players Cal offers. Wilcox knows how to identify guys who can play defense. Compare the recruit ratings of the players Wilcox puts on the field and the performance of Cal's Defense to the ratings of the guys playing for Stanford and the performance of Shaw's Defense. You'll see the numbers back this up.
At least 2/3 of our defensive commits in the past few years have had Cal offers.
So maybe coaching and development is the problem?
RE: Class of 2023 - TrumpCard - 07-29-2022
Anyone have insight into Stanford's chances to land Jacobe Johnson? He looks like he has the size/fluidity combination to play corner and lock down the tall receivers we are seeing more and more on opposing offenses. I like Ramos as well (he's the highest rated CB commit since STM I think), but it's been a while since Stanford has landed an ATH/CB with Johnson's profile. Alex Carter is maybe the only one, and add Wayne Lyons if you look at his profile pre-injury. If you add tall WRs, then Irwin and Bradford were rated a little higher in the composite, and Higgins is close. That may be the end of the apt comparisons. He'd really be an enormous catch, and it wouldn't hurt the MBB team either.
RE: Class of 2023 - TrumpCard - 07-30-2022
Cameron Brandt to Stanford!
https://mobile.twitter.com/CameronGBrandt1/status/1553472001058082818
RE: Class of 2023 - BostonCard - 07-30-2022
Embedded…
[tweet]https://twitter.com/camerongbrandt1/status/1553472001058082818?s=21&t=XtN4i9vmsABe7DCqf6GC3w[/tweet]
BC
RE: Class of 2023 - SamuelMcF - 07-30-2022
Brandt is a great get. The DL pipeline is the healthiest it's been in a long time, from a numbers perspective anyway.
RE: Class of 2023 - Bampa - 07-30-2022
(07-30-2022, 01:38 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Brandt is a great get. The DL pipeline is the healthiest it's been in a long time, from a numbers perspective anyway.
EXCELLENT!
Nice DL pickups lately.
RE: Class of 2023 - msqueri - 07-30-2022
Four dimensional analysis on Brandt:
Services: 247 composite #454 (#53 DL), On3 consensus #390 (#46 DL), 247 #38 DL (35 are in the top 247), On3 #54 DL, Rivals #23 DT (5.7 grade, same grade as Tobin Phillips, Andres Fox, Michael Williams, Dylan Jackson, Wesley Annan, Henry Anderson, Eddie Plantaric, Matthew Masifilo, Levirt Griffin), ESPN NR
Offers: Stanford, Cal, Washington, Arizona, Colorado, Michigan, Nebraska, Nevada, Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, USC, Washington State, Boston College
Production: As a junior for Sierra Canyon playing against one of the tougher schedules in the nation (top three percent of all Shaw recruit schedules), Brandt had 4.3 tackles per game (eighth on the team), 11 tackles for loss (third), and 5.5 sacks (third). As a sophomore for St. Bernard in a four game pandemic-shortened season, Brandt had 3.5 tackles per game (tied for fifth), 9 tackles for loss (four way tie for first), five sacks (tied for first), and one fumble recovery. For both years, it's worth keeping in mind his young age for his grade. He turned 17 in May, so he will be just turning 18 when he finishes high school (or be 17 for multiple months when he enrolls on campus if he enrolls early). Stereotypically this would mean that he's not as developed as some peers and could have more upside ahead, though of course it always depends on the individual.
Highlights: The sophomore St. Bernard highlights show some of the raw material but the player in the junior Sierra Canyon highlights took such a significant step forward he's almost unrecognizable. That and the late blooming nature of the recruitment (almost all the Pac-12 schools heavily pursuing him but only starting to after the junior season) supports the hope this is a young player still developing. Given the level of competition, you can trust that the highlights are generally against excellent high school teams. At least eight of the 11 opponents had future major college football players and at least six had numerous (3+, in many cases more than that). However, the OL lining up directly against him were not big prospects. Against Oaks Christian, Brandt took on guards and centers rather than Stanford OT commit Luke Baklenko (often tantalizingly close to Brandt in highlights but never squaring off directly). In that game, Brandt's highlights were most notable for pursuit, including a run play coming from the backside where he chased down 3-star RB Johnny Thompson (expected to go to one of the top Pac-12 teams) for a tackle for loss as part of a swarm. Similarly, against Arizona superpower Saguaro Brandt didn't square off with incoming Washington OL Parker Brailsford. In that one, Brandt got robbed of a half sack of incoming Idaho QB Ridge Docekal on a play where Brandt initially bit on the play action, quickly diagnosed his mistake and did a spin move to evade the center, and ran toward the play to help bring down Docekal (who admittedly was already starting to get wrapped up). The Saguaro game also featured a half tackle for loss of incoming Arizona State WR Javen Jacobs on a handoff where Brandt was second to the ball but nonetheless showed inside speed. The best thing from that game might be that Docekal and Jacobs' highlights show the same non-stop motor and pursuit that Brandt showcases on his highlights. Like Baklenko and Brailsford, the other high-profile OL on Sierra Canyon's schedule, incoming Washington State OL Zack Miller, also played OT and thus did not match up against Brandt. But there were several games against extraordinarily talented teams, just not ones with interior linemen of Brandt's caliber. Servite and Corona Centennial were top 10 teams nationally and Mission Viejo and Norco were top 15 teams in California. As we almost always see, the teams against top powerhouses tended to be Brandt's least productive games. But that doesn't mean he didn't impress. Against Servite, Brandt had three great highlights: a bull rush that helped collapse the pocket and forced incoming Arizona QB Noah Fifita to move up in the pocket into the arms of another defender for a sack, a play in which he immediately shed a blocker and athletically met Fifita for a stuff of no gain on a QB draw in the red zone, and defeating a double team to stuff a run play for short gain on another play in the red zone. On the flip side, the highlights of that game show a high school standout but not college prospect (because too short) Servite lineman sealing Brandt off to spring a 42 yard touchdown run. Fifita's 64 yard touchdown pass to incoming Arizona whale WR Tetairoa McMillan didn't bother me as Brandt was double-teamed (a very common occurrence if you watch other players' highlights) and still was the most disruptive DL on the play. Brandt was quiet against Corona Centennial but he mustered two pass rush and one run defense highlight. In the Norco game, incoming Cal 4-star RB Jaydn Ott got completely bottled up (2.2 yards per carry) and his only good play was on a catch where Brandt's rush forced incoming San Diego State QB Kyle Crum to check down to Ott, who raced down the sideline for a big gain until our old friend Kamari Ramsey could knock Ott out of bounds. Brandt also had a play in that game where he initially bit on a play action to Ott but then corrected quickly and athletically to chase Crum down from behind on the QB sweep (arguably should have been a tackle for loss but one of those judgment calls on who to credit). Brandt was extremely disruptive against Mission VIejo, which is nice because they're a great team and all the notable Diablo players were offensive players. Most fun was beating a double team to sack Boise State QB commit Kadin Semonza for a 12 yard loss but those highlights show the full complement of skills with a few tackles for loss in the run game, staying with plays once the ballcarrier got by Brandt's teammates, etc. On one of Semonza's long touchdown passes Brandt was double-teamed, although he got neutralized in one-on-one protection on the other. On one of Semonza's long runs Brandt was double-teamed and on the other Brandt tripped on his get-off (I'm sure the OL will remember it as a pancake!).
This is a big get given how DL recruiting has fallen off in recent years and how poor DL play has been even with the formerly highly-touted recruits. Among 2023 matriculators, this is my new favorite recruit in the class. I won't let myself get my expectations too high as even 4-star DL are 50/50 crapshoots and it really does seem to be the hardest position to evaluate and project. That everything I observed above was against linemen not projected to be major college football players tells you why - Power Five DL are really men against boys at the high school level, much more so than other positions, so it's just so hard to forecast who will be good and who won't. That being said, that's why you need competitive volume at DL to hedge your bets and this now makes eight DL in the three most classes in the pipeline with a very good possibility for a ninth, a really brobdingnagian amount for a position that only has two people on the field at once. Frankly, it's ostentatiously overboard and, sadly, probably a reflection on the individuals not being very good. But Brandt looks legitimately like somebody to be excited about. I really can't find anything I don't like.
RE: Class of 2023 - TrumpCard - 07-30-2022
Thank you, Matt. Your excitement here seems like a good omen. I was a little more sanguine than you on the quality of the DL pipeline before this commitment because of Moi and Rowell last year in particular, but I agree that Brandt looks like a good one.
RE: Class of 2023 - BostonCard - 07-30-2022
I would say that if there is one position we want to disproportionately load up on, it is defensive line, for two reasons (both of which you have previously touched on). First, DL benefits from “old man strength”, so excepting the periodic freak of nature like Solomon Thomas, you are going to want to have a DL comprised principally of juniors, seniors, and fifth years, which means under most circumstances, your usable pool is going to be about 40% smaller than the number of D linemen on the team (more when you don’t get your fifth year seniors back). Secondly, as you mentioned, it is harder to project high school defensive linemen than it is to project other positions, so you just have to increase your n to increase your probability of having enough usable d linemen. So, while you normally want a little bit below 1 player per position per year (so, two interior linemen a year), for DL, I think you probably are looking to alternate between 2 and 3 a year, which would give you 10 or so (maybe one or two more if you have some fifth years, or a little less with attrition), of which about 5 should be upper classmen. That gives you some wiggle room if a couple of them are total duds (as inevitably will be the case).
BC
RE: Class of 2023 - newguy - 07-30-2022
(07-30-2022, 01:18 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: Cameron Brandt to Stanford!
https://mobile.twitter.com/CameronGBrandt1/status/1553472001058082818
All Right Now!!!
RE: Class of 2023 - msqueri - 07-31-2022
(07-30-2022, 08:58 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I would say that if there is one position we want to disproportionately load up on, it is defensive line, for two reasons (both of which you have previously touched on). First, DL benefits from “old man strength”, so excepting the periodic freak of nature like Solomon Thomas, you are going to want to have a DL comprised principally of juniors, seniors, and fifth years, which means under most circumstances, your usable pool is going to be about 40% smaller than the number of D linemen on the team (more when you don’t get your fifth year seniors back). Secondly, as you mentioned, it is harder to project high school defensive linemen than it is to project other positions, so you just have to increase your n to increase your probability of having enough usable d linemen. So, while you normally want a little bit below 1 player per position per year (so, two interior linemen a year), for DL, I think you probably are looking to alternate between 2 and 3 a year, which would give you 10 or so (maybe one or two more if you have some fifth years, or a little less with attrition), of which about 5 should be upper classmen. That gives you some wiggle room if a couple of them are total duds (as inevitably will be the case).
BC
I think that's all right. Nonetheless, it's still possible to have too many, especially if it means you're shirking other positions. We're arguably approaching the point where things have gotten imbalanced in terms of the number of DL we have in the pipeline compared to other positions, especially inside linebacker and corner back. With corner back I take some solace in the fact that experience/balance across classes really doesn't matter much at CB, so you can likely get away with about one corner per year or catching up in a particular year down the road. With inside linebacker, I'm less sanguine. I fear we're solving our DL pipeline issues but creating a situation where even if we can improve in the trenches we're not going to have anybody to make the tackles.
I don't love the idea of playing whack-a-mole with our problems and think there's a degree of that going on - DL and safety depth were issues for several years and now in the last few cycles we've been a bit over-the-top in recruiting those, which hopefully will solve the depth issues at those positions, but now we'll have depth issues at different positions.
But I don't want to suggest position recruiting is necessarily in tension or that struggles to recruit one position mean we shouldn't try to muscle up in the trenches when we can. The reality is that almost all teams have up periods/down periods at various positions. The coaches' job is to try to make as many positions as possible looking "up." When we answer the bell with recruiting at a position that's good news, so by no means do I want to suggest that restoring health to the DL pipeline is anything but welcome.
RE: Class of 2023 - TrumpCard - 07-31-2022
Just don’t recruit the QB position and then there will be plenty of room for more DLs.
RE: Class of 2023 - BostonCard - 07-31-2022
Your points are well taken. I think one of the things that I am struggling with is the new positions as we switch to a 4-3. The last time we were in a 4-3, the configuration was as follows:
2 defensive tackles
2 defensive ends (sometimes divided into strong side and weak side defensive ends, SDE and WDE respectively)
3 linebackers (divided into a Mike [middle], Sam [strong side], and Will [weak side])
2 safeties (a strong safety and a free safety)
2 cornerbacks
1 nickelback (when we are playing in the nickel)
If we still separate the inside linebacker from the other LB’s, then we probably only need at most one a year. On the other hand, if we call “inside linebacker”, all three of the linebacker positions, then we probably need 10-12.
BC
RE: Class of 2023 - SamuelMcF - 07-31-2022
(07-31-2022, 11:00 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Your points are well taken. I think one of the things that I am struggling with is the new positions as we switch to a 4-3. The last time we were in a 4-3, the configuration was as follows:
2 defensive tackles
2 defensive ends (sometimes divided into strong side and weak side defensive ends, SDE and WDE respectively)
3 linebackers (divided into a Mike [middle], Sam [strong side], and Will [weak side])
2 safeties (a strong safety and a free safety)
2 cornerbacks
1 nickelback (when we are playing in the nickel)
If we still separate the inside linebacker from the other LB’s, then we probably only need at most one a year. On the other hand, if we call “inside linebacker”, all three of the linebacker positions, then we probably need 10-12.
BC
Your configuration is exactly correct. Just replace "defensive tackle" with DL and "defensive end" with Edge. The only slightly tricky part is the linebackers.
I believe you've unfortunately stated the two incorrect scenarios. "Inside linebacker" actually most likely refers to two guys: the Mike and Will LBs. The Sam LB will be an "Edge." David Bailey has previously stated he's learning both the Edge (I'd assume WDE) and Sam positions, for example.
Thus, there are actually 3 positions that fall under Edge, and we should indeed have 10-12 of those per your commentary. As there are 2 "Inside Linebackers" (I'm really not a fan of the term "Inside" anymore but whatever), we should have around 7-8.
I'm also a bit intrigued by versatility between SDE (the bigger Edge guys) and DL. Armel Mukam (6'4" 250) stated in a post-commit interview that we're looking at him as "primarily a 5-tech, but we'd occasionally kick him inside." A 5-tech is a DE lined up right outside the offensive tackle. So although we thought of him as a DL recruit, it's possible he's more of a big Edge a la Aaron Armitage and Lance Keneley. He's basically the same size as them already.
Cameron Brandt is, of course, an interior DL.