Football Coach Search Master Thread (Troy Taylor) - Printable Version
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RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - StanfordMatt - 12-09-2022
(12-09-2022, 10:28 PM)BostonCard Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/paulnew10823454/status/1601438275310612480?s=46&t=9dmZC-0zU-_YQaOkyJo3Yw[/tweet]
Sorry Matt.
No idea of how Taylor is as a person; I guess we will find out. I wouldn’t put his stint at Utah in a negative light; Wittingham went through offensive coordinators like they were going out of style.
Lots of posts on this board by Bob and Phogge professing to like the guy.
BC
I'm not going to argue with fellow Stanford fans because I'll still root for the team regardless of who the head coach is. And maybe I'm wrong. I was wrong about Shaw stepping down and would love to be wrong about Taylor.
But I can tell you that you won't find many in the industry to say anything nice about Troy Taylor. Although I'm sure the SID will find a few pretty quotes to put in his hiring press release. There may not have been a website headline or press release announcing his firing at Utah but he was told to find another job after the 2018 season because he didn't have one there for the 2019 season. I call that a firing. He didn't take a several hundred thousand dollar pay cut to leave the Utes for Sac State voluntarily. He didn't have success on offense with the Utes and he was a disagreeable personality with the rest of the staff.
There's no denying Taylor's success at Sac State and as a HS coach at Folsom. He has yet to demonstrate that he can have success out of that very narrow geographic area. And most Stanford football players don't come from Northern California. I would be very curious to know who Muir talked with regaridng Taylor and what references he checked. I don't believe Muir has done anything to earn the benefit of the doubt.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - washingtonismoney - 12-09-2022
(12-09-2022, 10:47 PM)StanfordMatt Wrote: I'm not going to argue with fellow Stanford fans because I'll still root for the team regardless of who the head coach is. And maybe I'm wrong. I was wrong about Shaw stepping down and would love to be wrong about Taylor.
But I can tell you that you won't find many in the industry to say anything nice about Troy Taylor. Although I'm sure the SID will find a few pretty quotes to put in his hiring press release. There may not have been a website headline or press release announcing his firing at Utah but he was told to find another job after the 2018 season because he didn't have one there for the 2019 season. I call that a firing. He didn't take a several hundred thousand dollar pay cut to leave the Utes for Sac State voluntarily. He didn't have success on offense with the Utes and he was a disagreeable personality with the rest of the staff.
There's no denying Taylor's success at Sac State and as a HS coach at Folsom. He has yet to demonstrate that he can have success out of that very narrow geographic area. And most Stanford football players don't come from Northern California. I would be very curious to know who Muir talked with regaridng Taylor and what references he checked. I don't believe Muir has done anything to earn the benefit of the doubt.
For what it's worth, my understanding w/r/t Taylor and Utah is essentially the same as yours -- a soft firing. A demerit, though I think it's of lesser importance than the head coaching record.
As to the people-don't-like-him idea, it could be a problem, but then again people say the same thing about Harbaugh. So I'm not especially piqued about it.
So if I'm thinking of it as Taylor vs. Garrett, I prefer Taylor. But I can't help but wonder whether there were better options out there. (For example, Mandel mentioned Bronco Mendenhall...who seems superior to the known finalists.)
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - gocard14 - 12-09-2022
(12-09-2022, 10:34 PM)washingtonismoney Wrote:(12-09-2022, 09:01 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(12-09-2022, 08:57 PM)washingtonismoney Wrote: Was just coming to post. It sounds like Taylor’s trying to let his team down easy.
Curious about your assessment about Taylor, as I know you had strong feelings about Garrett. I'm not sure how well success at an FCS school translates to Stanford, though it certainly worked when we hired Harbaugh.
BC
I don't have super-strong views about Taylor. I have a meta-take of sorts. Not to relitigate the Garrett debate all over, but I was struck when the JG speculation reached fever pitch how vague, general, and cliched the typical endorsement was. I think Dak Prescott praised his "great messaging" and other people were talking about the culture-building. Not that these are unimportant qualities, but they're epithets that get applied to virtually every head-coaching hire.
By contrast Taylor boosters are more specific -- mostly about the offense and so on. That, to me, is more reassuring: good coaches do the cliched stuff of building culture, but they also have more tangible strengths that everyone can pinpoint.
Not that Taylor boosters are free of hyperbole either: I've seen other cliched praise as an "innovative" or "creative" offensive coach. From what I've seen of Sacramento State in the past few days, those descriptions are people reaching for comfort-food adjectives rather than bringing fresh thinking to the conversation. Taylor's offenses seem good to me, but mostly because they're crisp, just-sophisticated-enough, and physical for a spread offense. Taylor seems more fast follower than innovator to me.
Is that bad? Generally, no. College football can be a friendly sport to fast followers. Specifically for Troy Taylor, Stanford coach? I think that could be a problem. Harbaugh and Shaw, when they were successful, were contrapuntal to the trend of college football. Stanford can recruit well but it'd be shocking if the school were the most talented team in every matchup. It needs to be slightly different, slightly offbeat in every matchup. I don't see that quality in the Sacramento State games I've seen.
We have no idea how good Troy Taylor will be as a recruiter when he's venturing into Houston, New Jersey, or Virginia and selling to kids who don't give a sh** what his record was against Weber State. We don't know whether he'll be aggressive in putting together a staff or simply lean on his crew from Sacramento. Zero idea.
That said, there's something to be said for first impressions. First impression when I saw Cowboys games? Hmmm why does this coach have a job? First impression when I've seen Sacramento State games? This guy looks like he knows what he's doing. So, with the gut feeling, I prefer Taylor by a solid margin. (Then again, the other gut feeling, on Muir, gives me indigestion.)
I’ll second the idea that there is a lot more to a coach then offensive genius. Most of any sport, football included, is borrowing, refurbishing, and reusing existing concepts. True novelty is exceedingly rare and even then may not always be successful. See the collegiate records of Saban vs Walsh. Note how the four most successful coaches in modern college football, Saban, Smart, Harbaugh, and Sweeney are not credited with being schematic geniuses but rather good recruiters and managers who can get their players to execute established concepts.
- P
So give me the guy who seems to gatherplayers and get them to play above their talent level then rather then the mastermind
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - BostonCard - 12-10-2022
Not exactly looking forward to games where we give up 66 points.
BC
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - martyup - 12-10-2022
(12-10-2022, 12:36 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Not exactly looking forward to games where we give up 66 points.
BC
No, but scoring 63 would be nice.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - BostonCard - 12-10-2022
I’m not going to crap on our likely new coach, especially given that this was a playoff game, but I’d rather win 2-0 than lose 66-63.
BC
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - CardinalSagehen - 12-10-2022
If Taylor handles this the way Shaw did, and if he is the guy, he is telling his team right now.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - Snorlax94 - 12-10-2022
Well, given it looks like Troy Taylor is the guy, here are the positives in my mind:
1. He is a college head coach with a lot of ambition. I worry about the big picture, leadership and executive aspects with assistant coaches — even nfl assistants — so it’s reassuring to get someone with college head coaching experience.
2. He is young with a lot of fire and energy. Coaching college football has never been more demanding and exhausting. One of my concerns with Petersen and Shaw was that they just didn’t have enough fire in the belly and stamina for the current game. (But Petersen would have been my top choice IF he expressed that he wanted to go all in back into the fires again.)
3. Coming from the region (Utah, Sac State) he knows what Stanford is about, and what the unique pros and cons are. He has seen Stanford Stadium and knows it’s not the Big House. He knows the tradeoffs recruiting for Stanford — a greatly reduced set of candidates, but all the high character-high intelligence ones, with a very high yield with those who fit. My concern with some nfl types who have no familiarity with Stanford is that they’d be flabberghasted by the unique situation. But someone who knows Stanford should come in with a plan for how to work with Stanford’s opportunities and constraints.
I have concerns, also, but let the process and games play out.
I will definitely renew my season tickets for 2023 and am excited to see what’s next.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - Austroturf - 12-10-2022
Troy Taylor does appear to be the man.
Some positives:
1) knows the college came;
2) brought Sac State back from last place to first place, so there's a turnaround gene there;
3) seems to be a keen offensive mind;
4) knows the Cal/Bay Area environment;
5) appears to have lots of energy and passion.
Some concerns:
1) Actually, he's not that young: he's four years older than Shaw, who resigned after 12 years at the helm. For his first shot at a P5 head-coaching job, Taylor is rather old.
2) Not sure how defensive-minded he is. Will Stanford once again become a team that can only win shoot-outs? Let's see.
3) His one-year stint at Utah is a bit of a concern: Whittingham appears to run a tight ship, and failing there is certainly not a good sign.
4) The assessment that he can be a "jerk" isn't encouraging, but concerns me less than points 1-3. Shaw was the ultimate nice guy, and that didn't end well. Harbaugh has been accused of being a "jerk", but gets things done wherever he lands. I don't think the world of college football is a place where nice guys necessarily end up on top.
Maybe he can bring some of his key players with him from Sac State (if they can qualify academically). If Riley and Sanders can do it, why not Taylor?
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - JohnR34231 - 12-10-2022
(12-10-2022, 12:50 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I’m not going to crap on our likely new coach, especially given that this was a playoff game, but I’d rather win 2-0 than lose 66-63.
BC
When Shaw was winning I remember people complaining he wasn't playing exciting enough football. One comment even went far enough to say losing 44-41 was preferable to winning 17-10.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - Austroturf - 12-10-2022
(12-10-2022, 04:54 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(12-10-2022, 12:50 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I’m not going to crap on our likely new coach, especially given that this was a playoff game, but I’d rather win 2-0 than lose 66-63.
BC
When Shaw was winning I remember people complaining he wasn't playing exciting enough football. One comment even went far enough to say losing 44-41 was preferable to winning 17-10.
It's true that some Shaw-coached games were downright soporific. But I was OK with that as long as Stanford secured the W. The old adage that offense sells tickets and defense wins championships is still true. That's why I hope the new coach (whoever it is) will get the team back to elite-level defense. Winning 35-10 is better than a W at 2-0 or an L at 66-63.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - dabigv13 - 12-10-2022
Quote:For what it's worth, my understanding w/r/t Taylor and Utah is essentially the same as yours -- a soft firing. A demerit, though I think it's of lesser importance than the head coaching record.
Sauce? Was not following at the time but the article I posted above from a Utah beat reporter indicates otherwise.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - Austroturf - 12-10-2022
(12-10-2022, 06:14 AM)dabigv13 Wrote:Quote:For what it's worth, my understanding w/r/t Taylor and Utah is essentially the same as yours -- a soft firing. A demerit, though I think it's of lesser importance than the head coaching record.
Sauce? Was not following at the time but the article I posted above from a Utah beat reporter indicates otherwise.
If the beat reporter is to be trusted, Taylor was definitely not fired from Utah. Sounds more like a clash of styles and a desire to take on the HC job at Sac State. Very often, a firing results in a season or two out of action. Taylor hit the ground running after his gig at Utah.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - relsef - 12-10-2022
(12-09-2022, 10:25 PM)dabigv13 Wrote:(12-09-2022, 10:17 PM)StanfordMatt Wrote:(12-09-2022, 05:59 PM)MV72018 Wrote:(12-09-2022, 05:12 PM)BobK Wrote: Hearing announcement at 11 am tomorrow
It’s a short drive from Sacramento
Could well be true, BobK. After all, his bowl game is only 2.5 hours from now.
I think Troy has a lot going for him. He strikes me as someone whom Stanford
players would love and play hard for, as a clever offensive play caller, and as
an energetic and charismatic man who would make a great impression on recruits
and infuse them with his enthusiasm. Even though Jason Garrett was OC for my New
York Giants for a few years, he struck me as somewhat of a stolid fellow. Although
they both went to excellent universities, I'd prefer TT over JG.
He’s a jerk who failed miserably and was fired in his only stint at the P5 level. Horrible hire.
And yes, he has told his staff (at least some of them) that he’s accepted the job. We’d be better off bringing back Buddy Ball. At least Buddy was a nice guy.
Huh? What P5 program was he fired from.
https://espn700sports.com/news/what-we-know-about-the-departure-of-utah-oc-troy-taylor/
After reading the above article, it doesn't sound like a firing to me. Based on that article, I am actually more intrigued with Taylor as a person and coach than I was before reading it. To be sure there are lots of questions about how he will perform as Stanford HC, but that is the case for every candidate out there.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-10-2022
(12-10-2022, 04:29 AM)Austroturf Wrote: Troy Taylor does appear to be the man.
Some positives:
1) knows the college came;
2) brought Sac State back from last place to first place, so there's a turnaround gene there;
3) seems to be a keen offensive mind;
4) knows the Cal/Bay Area environment;
5) appears to have lots of energy and passion.
Some concerns:
1) Actually, he's not that young: he's four years older than Shaw, who resigned after 12 years at the helm. For his first shot at a P5 head-coaching job, Taylor is rather old.
2) Not sure how defensive-minded he is. Will Stanford once again become a team that can only win shoot-outs? Let's see.
3) His one-year stint at Utah is a bit of a concern: Whittingham appears to run a tight ship, and failing there is certainly not a good sign.
4) The assessment that he can be a "jerk" isn't encouraging, but concerns me less than points 1-3. Shaw was the ultimate nice guy, and that didn't end well. Harbaugh has been accused of being a "jerk", but gets things done wherever he lands. I don't think the world of college football is a place where nice guys necessarily end up on top.
Maybe he can bring some of his key players with him from Sac State (if they can qualify academically). If Riley and Sanders can do it, why not Taylor?
He will need to hire a good DC. When Alito was at Oregon he spoke about the difficulties of the defense when the offense plays a wide open up tempo spread. Key - depth. Cause you are on the field more.
Have to recruit hard on defensive end. Have to care about defense. If you don’t , you are Sonny Dykes at Cal.
I don’t like tha air raid type offenses. I find constant 55-48 games and 40 passes at or near the LOS. to be strangely boring, Yawn. Another TD. I realize I’m on an island on that one.
He will need speed. Always a hard commodity for a Stanford to recruit.
Having said that - hope like hell he succeeds. I’ll learn to live with 55-48 wins….. :)
(12-10-2022, 05:38 AM)Austroturf Wrote:(12-10-2022, 04:54 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(12-10-2022, 12:50 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I’m not going to crap on our likely new coach, especially given that this was a playoff game, but I’d rather win 2-0 than lose 66-63.
BC
When Shaw was winning I remember people complaining he wasn't playing exciting enough football. One comment even went far enough to say losing 44-41 was preferable to winning 17-10.
It's true that some Shaw-coached games were downright soporific. But I was OK with that as long as Stanford secured the W. The old adage that offense sells tickets and defense wins championships is still true. That's why I hope the new coach (whoever it is) will get the team back to elite-level defense. Winning 35-10 is better than a W at 2-0 or an L at 66-63.
Yep. The most ridiculous part of the Shawbashing during The Glory Years. But time to turn the page. Hopefully Taylor can right the ship.
RE: lex24 - jonnyss - 12-10-2022
(12-10-2022, 09:08 AM)lex24 Wrote: "Have to recruit hard on defensive end. Have to care about defense. If you don’t , you are Sonny Dykes at Cal."
though i'll certainly take sonny dykes at tcu. anyone know what is making the difference?
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - terry - 12-10-2022
Troy Taylor's coaching experience:
2019-pres - Sacramento State (Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator)
2017-18 - Utah (Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks)
2016 - Eastern Washington (Co-Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks)
2012-15 - Folsom High School (Co-Head Coach)
2005-11 - Out of coaching, radio analyst for Cal football
2002-04 - Folsom High School (Co-Head Coach)
2000 – Christian Brothers High School (Assistant Coach)
1996-99 - California (Tight Ends/Recruiting Coordinator/Quarterbacks/Wide Receivers)
1995 - Colorado (Graduate Assistant/Receivers)
1994 - Casa Roble High School (Assistant Coach)
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - lex24 - 12-10-2022
One thing - this ain’t gonna happen overnight. Patience will be important. He has to be able to recruit his type player.
Portal and NIL. Still major keys as far as I’m concerned. They simply can’t have a one way door. Depth is ALWAYS an issue at Stanford. When you lose some of that depth through transfers and can’t replenish, it’s a big problem.
(12-10-2022, 09:15 AM)jonnyss Wrote: "Have to recruit hard on defensive end. Have to care about defense. If you don’t , you are Sonny Dykes at Cal."
though i'll certainly take sonny dykes at tcu. anyone know what is making the difference?
Just a guess - he took over for Gary Peterson. Defensive minded. So, I’m guessing there was some talent already there. And perhaps Dykes learned from his prior experience.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - Softball Fan - 12-10-2022
(12-10-2022, 09:17 AM)terry Wrote: Troy Taylor's coaching experience:
2019-pres - Sacramento State (Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator)
2017-18 - Utah (Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks)
2016 - Eastern Washington (Co-Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks)
2012-15 - Folsom High School (Co-Head Coach)
2005-11 - Out of coaching, radio analyst for Cal football
2002-04 - Folsom High School (Co-Head Coach)
2000 – Christian Brothers High School (Assistant Coach)
1996-99 - California (Tight Ends/Recruiting Coordinator/Quarterbacks/Wide Receivers)
1995 - Colorado (Graduate Assistant/Receivers)
1994 - Casa Roble High School (Assistant Coach)
So the longest he lasted at any coaching job was four years over a 38 year period.
RE: Football Coaching Search [merged thread] - Goose - 12-10-2022
I have commented on this before, but it seems given the situation it is relevant now now. Taylor was fired at Utah. He didn't mesh well with the program. He wanted to run a more up-tempo offense than the head coach and the OL coach did. Taylor couldn't/wouldn't/didn't adjust to that. Unfortunately in my mind that calls into question his judgement (at least at that point in his career). When he took the job he should have ensured he knew what were it's parameters, especially given the number of OC that program had gone through at that point. When he got there and they wouldn't let him do what he wanted, he should have either quit or adapted. He did neither.
At Stanford, he is going to run into many situations where the "system" is going to constrain what he can do. He needs to do a much better job of "adapting" than he did at Utah or it won't work out. I am not too worried about him not being a "nice guy". IMO the vast majority of football coaches are not "nice guys". They are all attempting to get their team to do what they want them to do, and asking nicely just isn't their normal MO. The successful ones learn to have a public persona that covers up their assertiveness and rough edges. Hopefully, Taylor has learned to do that. If so, he could indeed have success at Stanford. If not, he won't last long.