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Re: Spring Game Thread - CompSci87 - 04-16-2017

(04-16-2017, 04:31 PM)CowboyIndian link Wrote:[quote author=CompSci87 link=topic=16794.msg191824#msg191824 date=1492382084]
Toner and Collin Riccitelli kicked FGs and extra points. Toner was great; Riccitelli seemed okay.

They alternated kicks and Riccitelli never had a turn at a field goal try. Toner's were strong and accurate. Riccitelli has a good leg, too....judging from the PATs.
[/quote]

True. The way I put it wasn't very fair to Riccitelli. Thanks.

Re: Spring Game Thread - needle - 04-16-2017

Lewis Burik was credited with two sacks in the spring game. I had never heard of him, but a quick search found this article from September. Nothing too dramatic, but I will be rooting for this kid chasing his dream:

Quote: "I'm undersized and probably under-athletic, but I love football and I love helping teams to win and grow and being part of a team that's successful," said Burik, a 5-foot-10 sophomore inside linebacker at Stanford, ranked seventh in the country. "That doesn't change from grammar school to high school to college."

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20160912/old-town/football-dream-leads-jewish-player-catholic-high-school-stanford

Re: Spring Game Thread - HarbaughBuiltStanfordFB - 04-17-2017

Speights looked good, kinda expect he will become our number 2 back over Scarlett considering Scarlett was very mediocre last year. Offensive line is and will continue be our Achilles heel this season. They got dominated by the DL and cannot convert in those 3rd and 1 situations. Anyone who follow Stanford fb would know we aren't able to consistently get those 1 yard in those situations, we will be losing a lot more games than we should. I am starting to think we should start at least one of our 5 star OTs or else this season at best will be just as good as our last season (honest opinion is we are still 1 year away from contending playoffs). Ryan Burns looked sharp just like last year spring game, its obvious he has talent but him holding the ball for too long and poor OL play last year really hindered his talent. From what the coaching staff said, seems like Keller Chryst is expected to start against Rice with Burns being the obvious back up. Another thing is we are wasting Irwin's potential by asking him to run a lot of go route, he doesn't have the speed nor size to excel in those situation. We need to put Irwin in those drag, slant, out route, post-corner-post route where he can use his phenomenal route running skill to get open. Use him like Julian Edelman please

Re: Spring Game Thread - Hurlburt88 - 04-17-2017

I watched part of the game last night.  Does anyone have any news on Maddox's knew? 

Other reflections: 
-  KJ trying to block a linebacker on a reverse sure looks different than Luck/Hogan/Chryst
-  Toohill impressive
-  Cotton got no push in the pass rush

Re: Spring Game Thread - OutsiderFan - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 12:13 AM)HarbaughBuiltStanfordFB link Wrote:Speights looked good, kinda expect he will become our number 2 back over Scarlett considering Scarlett was very mediocre last year. Offensive line is and will continue be our Achilles heel this season. They got dominated by the DL and cannot convert in those 3rd and 1 situations. Anyone who follow Stanford fb would know we aren't able to consistently get those 1 yard in those situations, we will be losing a lot more games than we should. I am starting to think we should start at least one of our 5 star OTs or else this season at best will be just as good as our last season (honest opinion is we are still 1 year away from contending playoffs). Ryan Burns looked sharp just like last year spring game, its obvious he has talent but him holding the ball for too long and poor OL play last year really hindered his talent. From what the coaching staff said, seems like Keller Chryst is expected to start against Rice with Burns being the obvious back up. Another thing is we are wasting Irwin's potential by asking him to run a lot of go route, he doesn't have the speed nor size to excel in those situation. We need to put Irwin in those drag, slant, out route, post-corner-post route where he can use his phenomenal route running skill to get open. Use him like Julian Edelman please

Could someone have a more agenda-driven handle?  Why not just have it be "ShawStinks" or something like that?  Would be a lot more intellectually honest about the feelings you are clearly trying - too hard - to express.

The foundation of the passing game is pass protection.  The same guys who formed one of the worst pass protecting OLs in 2016, were playing in Spring.  Ordinarily, freaking out at the coming year's OL situation after the same guys playing maybe only marginally better in Spring, would makes sense.  But also ordinarily, a team doesn't have arguably the Top 2 OT recruits in the country coming in.  As soon as they arrive on campus Little and Sarrel will be the biggest and most athletic OTs Stanford has.  Does that mean they will both start?  Probably not, but the odds are one will. The pass protection and therefore the passing attack, will be more effective, no matter who the QB is, as a result. 

Re: Spring Game Thread - CTcard - 04-17-2017

(04-16-2017, 09:00 AM)Goose link Wrote:I kind of believe that Shaw wants to have two wide receivers on the field under "normal" conditions, i.e not third and long. Stanford wants to run the ball. We have many very good tight ends and will certainly have some double tight end sets.  If Marx is healthy, we will have a fullback in the lineup very often. That cuts down on the three and four wide sets we will see. So I expect to see Irwin out there as a "possession" receiver, and probably JJAW mostly as the other receiver. However, this could be totally wrong, both in "scheme" and in "who". Stewart did look good in the spring game, from what I hear. Question is, how much will he play? Thoughts?

My thoughts:

Stanford runs a lot more 3, 4, and even 5 wide sets than many seem to realize, and far more than one would suspect from a team that doesn't throw the ball all that often. I certainly get the impression that Shaw (or whomever is ultimately responsible for the overall design of our offense) puts a very high value on presenting multiple sets, and the many wide is an integral part of that.

Whether that will continue in 2017 would seem to depend upon how many WRs the staff has confidence in - though usually some of the wide outs in these sets are nominally TEs, and it seems we'll have a few of those to choose from: Schultz, Smith, maybe Harrington, maybe Parkinson.
From what I have seen, and certainly from passes caught, there seem to be two WRs on the roster in whom the staff has shown clear confidence (Arcega-Whiteside and Irwin), and one fledgling on that path (Stewart - who still has only two career catches).
I am guessing that St. Brown gets some playing time simply out of need, there don't seem to be that many WR options on the roster. 

Re: Spring Game Thread - fullmetal - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 12:13 AM)HarbaughBuiltStanfordFB link Wrote:Ryan Burns looked sharp just like last year spring game, its obvious he has talent but him holding the ball for too long and poor OL play last year really hindered his talent.

You're only allowed to be bullish on Burns if you didn't watch last season.

I also tend to be pessimistic about OL play until proven wrong, but I'd love to be proven wrong (the sooner the better).  Agreed that Irwin's strength is route-running and that he should maximize his shiftiness there--but our QBs might have a hard time delivering accurately-placed balls to receivers moving from sideline-to-sideline.  Maybe the deep ball is less risky for these QBs.

I'm excited for Speights but even more hopeful for an improvement on the OL if our frosh recruits are allowed to compete.

Re: Spring Game Thread - Goose - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 09:20 AM)CTcard link Wrote:I am guessing that St. Brown gets some playing time simply out of need, there don't seem to be that many WR options on the roster.
I am pretty much with you on all but this bit. St. Brown will play only if he is so good he can get a large number of reps. I don't think he will play "just a little". Naturally, it could happen if we are real close to being good but just a little more outside speed will put us "over the top". I think that is not probable though. We will either be good enough we don't need him or not good enough that having him would justify burning the shirt.

Re: Spring Game Thread - Spiny_Norman - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 07:35 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:As soon as they arrive on campus Little and Sarrell will be the biggest and most athletic OTs Stanford has.  Does that mean they will both start?  Probably not, but the odds are one will. The pass protection and therefore the passing attack, will be more effective, no matter who the QB is, as a result.

If past practice is a predictor, true frosh linemen will be given the role as extra blockers in Ogre formations.  Later in the season, they may get a chance to start.  Let's look at recent top linemen as frosh:

Kyle Murphy
Andrus Peat
Joshua Garnett
Of course, the current OL situation may require a different approach. But history tells us that David Shaw will be very cautious before inserting true frosh in a starting lineup.

Re: Spring Game Thread - TrumpCard - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 09:20 AM)CTcard link Wrote:Stanford runs a lot more 3, 4, and even 5 wide sets than many seem to realize, and far more than one would suspect from a team that doesn't throw the ball all that often. I certainly get the impression that Shaw (or whomever is ultimately responsible for the overall design of our offense) puts a very high value on presenting multiple sets, and the many wide is an integral part of that.

I'll bite.  How many times per game did Shaw run 4 and 5 WR sets last year?  I don't know the answer.  All I can see are the WR stats from last year.  The starters, Rector and Irwin, caught 30+ passes.  Owusu was the #3 WR until he got injured in the UCLA game.  To that point, no other WR had caught a pass.  After Owusu went down, JJAW became the #3 WR and he ended the season with 30+ receptions as well.  So there were 3 WRs with a decent number of opportunities.  After Owusu suffered his injury in game, he had 6 catches for 98 yards and 1 TD.  Over the course of the entire season, all other WRs combined for 5 catches for 48 yards and 0 TDs.  Based on those stats, plus the risk of injury, I can see a need for 4 solid WRs.  I don't see a need beyond that, unless I am missing something that the stats don't reveal, or unless the staff plans to involve more WRs going forward.  I am not in a position to predict whether Brandt-Sims, Tyler, Segina, or St. Brown will be the 4th guy. 

Even if St. Brown is not the 4th guy and even if he doesn't get a lot of passes thrown his way, I can imagine him burning his redshirt.  Look at Shaw's history of burning WR redshirts.  Stewart, Irwin, Owusu, and Montgomery all did while Shaw has been head coach.  And when Shaw was OC or co-OC under Harbaugh, they burned redshirts for Patterson, Terrell, Owusu, Baldwin and Gatewood.  Over the course of that 10 year run, 9 WRs have burned their redshirts and less than half have been significant contributors. 

Re: Spring Game Thread - Goose - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 12:49 PM)TrumpCard link Wrote:Even if St. Brown is not the 4th guy and even if he doesn't get a lot of passes thrown his way, I can imagine him burning his redshirt.  Look at Shaw's history of burning WR redshirts.  Stewart, Irwin, Owusu, and Montgomery all did while Shaw has been head coach.  And when Shaw was OC or co-OC under Harbaugh, they burned redshirts for Patterson, Terrell, Owusu, Baldwin and Gatewood.  Over the course of that 10 year run, 9 WRs have burned their redshirts and less than half have been significant contributors.
Shaw has expressed the belief many times that he must put the lineup on the field that gives Stanford the best chance to win that day's game, period. No redshirting for "tactical" reasons at the expense of winning. I think that is very consistent with your point. However, ask yourself, would having another really good receiver have helped Stanford win more last year? I don't think it would have mattered. I think by game 2 Shaw will know what he has, and unless it is really ambiguous (which I doubt it will be), he can hold people out if they won't help Stanford win. Burning the red shirt only makes sense if we can protect the passer well enough to throw it and the QB is accurate enough to hit a fast wideout stretching the field. If we can do that, then the question would be do we need person X in order to win? That could be harder to answer, but given that there are two other choices in addition to the trio identified as "primary", I would expect that this would be the time the red shirt stays on. Now, if  St. Brown turns out to be all-world, he will play for sure. If we can't protect the passer and/or the QB has problems completing passes, he probably won't, IMHO.

Re: Spring Game Thread - CTcard - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 03:09 PM)Goose link Wrote:[quote author=TrumpCard link=topic=16794.msg191866#msg191866 date=1492458553]
Even if St. Brown is not the 4th guy and even if he doesn't get a lot of passes thrown his way, I can imagine him burning his redshirt.  Look at Shaw's history of burning WR redshirts.  Stewart, Irwin, Owusu, and Montgomery all did while Shaw has been head coach.  And when Shaw was OC or co-OC under Harbaugh, they burned redshirts for Patterson, Terrell, Owusu, Baldwin and Gatewood. 

... Burning the red shirt only makes sense if we can protect the passer well enough to throw it and the QB is accurate enough to hit a fast wideout stretching the field. If we can do that, then the question would be do we need person X in order to win? That could be harder to answer, but given that there are two other choices in addition to the trio identified as "primary", I would expect that this would be the time the red shirt stays on.
[/quote]

What Goose says may be logical, but what Shaw has actually done would lead one towards guessing that St. Brown will play. I think that very rarely has our top WR recruit not played under Shaw.
2016 = Stewart played
2015 = Irwin played
2014 = Brandt-Sims did not play*
2013 = Owusu played
2012 = Whitfield played **
2011 = Montgomery played

* In 2014 Brandt-Sims was our only WR recruit, but I think he was being converted from RB.
** One might argue that Rector (who didn't play) was our top WR recruit rather than Whitfield, but either way one frosh WR played.


I think that Shaw values the formation flexibility one gets from lots of WR options, much more than he necessarily wants to throw to lots of WRs - particularly in a season like last year where we couldn't protect the QB long enough to get a ball thrown much of the time. For next year we have a particular dearth of proven WRs, so I think it is even more likely that our top guy will play.
Of course Shaw could change his mind about how to manage the WR roster.

Re: Spring Game Thread - Spiny_Norman - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 03:43 PM)CTcard link Wrote:What Goose says may be logical, but what Shaw has actually done would lead one towards guessing that St. Brown will play. I think that very rarely has our top WR recruit not played under Shaw.
2016 = Stewart played
2015 = Irwin played
2014 = Brandt-Sims did not play
2013 = Owusu played
2012 = Whitfield played
2011 = Montgomery played

How many of those played on special teams before they started playing on offense? My memory is not entirely clear but I recall Irwin and Montgomery at a minimum on special teams as true frosh.  I think that Owusu may have played ST as well.

Re: Spring Game Thread - Goose - 04-17-2017

(04-17-2017, 03:43 PM)CTcard link Wrote:...I think that very rarely has our top WR recruit not played under Shaw.
<snip>
Of course Shaw could change his mind about how to manage the WR roster.
I mostly agree with your analysis of the previous management of freshman wide receivers. I don't think Shaw's philosophy is changing, but I do think that the situation next year could be unique. There is no point in redshirting a receiver if there is no reason to expect that he may be significantly more productive in the future than he is at present. In the case of a player changing positions, there was that expectation. In the previous Shaw years examined, we had at least a serviceable passing attack. It can be argued that last year, somewhat unexpectedly, we didn't. Stanford also has a very good class of 2017 arriving on campus. If it looks like we will not be doing too well in the air in 2017, I can see an argument that not playing St. Brown would make sense, expecting that the supporting cast will be better in 2018 and that he can't really help in 2017. In 2016 it seemed that the problems in the passing game were a shock to the staff. (Maybe not, but it sure seemed that way to me). In 2017, they are better equipped to recognize the problem (if it exists) and act accordingly. I think that in the past the coaching staff had little reason to expect an advantage from holding the "best" freshman out. That may not be true this year, either because 1)we are very good throwing the ball or 2)we are not good at all throwing the ball. 

Re: Spring Game Thread - gizmoduckor - 04-17-2017

(04-15-2017, 05:30 PM)godfire link Wrote:Is the full game posted anywhere?

Not directly from me anyway. But if you check through the Zap2it Schedule for the PAC-12 Bay Area you can find when it re-airs by clicking on the field, though doesn't [visually appear] as though you're pressing anything.

http://i4atv.us/pac12/bayarea

PAC-12 Digital http://i4atv.us/pac12d/stanford

BTW, I hope you've all been enjoying the access, and some of the improvements to Global Gizmo Watch Party over the past few months.  ;) 8)

Side note: I'll be in the Bay Area around 4/25, as part of my travels on my vacation. If you're interested in meeting the man behind the streaming curtain, let me know by private message here, via the chat on my website, or the contact-me form on the site. http://i4atv.us/spring-vacation-2017/

Re: Spring Game Thread - BostonCard - 04-18-2017

Wilner has a nice report on Spring practice:

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/18/college-hotline-stanford-spring-practice-analysis-state-of-the-offensive-line-breakthrough-players-shaw-on-ncaa-rule-changes-and-more/

Quote:Here’s the list, with a mix of their direct quotes and my paraphrasing:

* DT Harrison Phillips, who “moved much better this spring than he had during the season,” Anderson said.

* OT David Bright “was our best up front,” Bloomgren said.

* S Justin Reid played well enough to be mentioned by both Anderson and Bloomgren.

* WRs JJ Arcega-Whiteside and Trent Irwin (“an incredible route runner,” Bloomgren noted).

* OGs Nate Herbig and Nick Wilson made the greatest strides along the offensive line.

* S Brandon Simmons is “really starting to show a good understanding of the defense,” Anderson said.

* TE Dalton Schultz was the best of a group that had a strong second session.

* Mike Tyler was the most consistent pass rusher among the OLBs.

* Bobby Okereke has separated himself from the other ILB contenders. “Hope he can continue to show play-making ability in live (scrimmage/game) situations,” Anderson said.

* The reserve running backs (Cameron Scarlett, Trevor Speights and Dorian Maddox) showed enough skill, Bloomgren noted, to ease his concerns about depth behind Bryce Love.

The whole piece is worth a read (and I don't say that often about Wilner's work).

A few thoughts:

- It looks like we might be seeing Okereke and Alfieri inside, and Kalambayi and Tyler or Robinson outside.
- I wonder if the line is going to be Bright, Herbig, Burkett, Wilson, tackle to be named later, perhaps even Hamilton.
- Great to see about Phillips being fully recovered

I feel better after the spring than before.  Some questions answered.

Re: Spring Game Thread - AthleticsDynasty - 04-18-2017

I feel as strong as ever about my OL prediction of Little-Herbig-Burkett-Wilson-Bright I think once they get some reps together the OL will be damn good a bigger concern for me as far as blocking is the TEs(stunned Kaden hasn't separated himself) and FB(if Marx can't get/stay healthy).

Speights is a stud would not surprise me if he ended up being the #1 back.

Re: Spring Game Thread - Bruce Wang - 04-18-2017

Speights's downhill running reminded me of Toby Gerhart.

Re: Spring Game Thread - CTcard - 04-18-2017

(04-18-2017, 09:41 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:Wilner has a nice report on Spring practice:

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/18/college-hotline-stanford-spring-practice-analysis-state-of-the-offensive-line-breakthrough-players-shaw-on-ncaa-rule-changes-and-more/

And we thought our QBs had a problem locking their eyes onto the intended receiver ...
[from the article]

Quote:I wouldn’t discount one of the freshman tackles, whether it’s Devery Hamilton (redshirt), Foster Sarell (true) or Walker Little (true), ultimately joining Bright as the staring tandem.



Re: Spring Game Thread - CTcard - 04-18-2017

(04-18-2017, 09:41 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:Wilner has a nice report on Spring practice:

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/18/college-hotline-stanford-spring-practice-analysis-state-of-the-offensive-line-breakthrough-players-shaw-on-ncaa-rule-changes-and-more/

On a more serious note, one line from the article that struck me was,
Quote:If healthy, Holder and Quenton Meeks should form the best cornerback tandem in school history.

Wilner has more or less stated this a few times, though I don't think he has done so with any careful cataloging of other possible choices.

My initial thought is that Holder and Meeks could get there, but aren't there yet.
I would probably list Vaughn Bryant/Darrien Gordon as the best cornerback tandem in the history of my own fandom.
I suspect those who go back further than I do would have other candidates.