WBB: Attendance - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB: Attendance (/thread-18539.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB: Attendance (/thread-18539.html)
RE: WBB: Attendance - jonnyss - 11-21-2019
it also occurs to me that the pac-12 network and stanford media do a terrible job of promoting the marquee matchups of the last few years. if i recall correctly, stanford upset then #1 baylor with no tv or streaming coverage at all - not even a replay. the stanford-baylor match-up should get monster publicity, a brobdingnagian build-up; instead gets zero.
we could be replacing the hype of the old stanford-tennessee and stanford-uconn games with hype of the stanford-baylor game, but no one bothers.
sorry, the website keeps inserting the words "of immense proportions" and won't let me delete these words. some programmer's idea of a joke?
RE: WBB: Attendance - qwerty49 - 11-21-2019
(11-21-2019, 08:06 PM)jonnyss Wrote: it also occurs to me that the pac-12 network and stanford media do a terrible job of promoting the marquee matchups of the last few years. if i recall correctly, stanford upset then #1 baylor with no tv or streaming coverage at all - not even a replay. the stanford-baylor match-up should get monster publicity, a of immense proportions build-up; instead gets zero.
we could be replacing the hype of the old stanford-tennessee and stanford-uconn games with hype of the stanford-baylor game, but no one bothers.
sorry, the website keeps inserting the words "of immense proportions" and won't let me delete these words. some programmer's idea of a joke?
IIRC the Baylor win was in Hawaii at one of those season-opening mini-tournaments where the 4 teams only play one game each. Stanford probably had very little say or control over the broadcast or streaming options.
Yes, you are not alone in your annoyance at what some people feel is a silly thing. Others doubtless think it's cute, so there you have it. To be fair, there's a bit of back story to it, and to a couple of other "auto-corrects," but I'll leave that explanation to someone else.
RE: WBB: Attendance - CompSci87 - 11-21-2019
The Baylor/Stanford upset was at a neutral site tournament hosted by Hawaii. Pac-12 network didn't have the rights, and probably would have had difficulty getting a crew and equipment out there.
But there are probably other examples of missed chances at promotion.
About the word change, it's our fearless leader's joke. See https://thecardboard.org/faq/#board
RE: WBB: Attendance - 81alum - 01-25-2020
Attendance so far this year:
E Washington 2277
N Colorado 2361
Gonzaga 2863
Buffalo 2590
Ohio State 2970
Tennessee 4676
Davis 2871
WSU 2643
Washington 3273
Cal 3529
Colorado 2829
Now, when we went to Cal, there were 6724 who who turned out to watch that losing team.
At Oregon there were 12218
At OSU there were 8667
Remember the good ol days when we were the only team in the Pac 12 with a big fan base? When all our games at home were better attended than all our games on the road? Whenever Tennessee would come we would sell out?
We are every bit as exciting a team as we used to be. Stanford as a community is no smaller than it once was. Our opponents are actually more interesting than ever. Why is our attendance, that used to hover in the mid 4000s, now hovering in the mid 2000s?
There are only so many explanations:
1) Pac 12 network had undermined attendance.
2) Interest in basketball is waning in the local area
3) We are doing a much poorer job of promotion, pricing, advertising than we once did.
4) There is much greater competition for the time and money of WBB fans than there once was.
Which of these is it?
By the way, last night UCLA had 2400 attend the Washington game, so we are sinking toward their level of attendance. That is also roughly the attendance Washington had for its loss to Arizona last weekend. Arizona had 10160 last night. ASU had 2491 to watch them beat Oregon State, so they are on par with us.
RE: WBB: Attendance - triangle2 - 01-25-2020
(01-25-2020, 03:55 PM)81alum Wrote: There are only so many explanations:
1) Pac 12 network had undermined attendance.
2) Interest in basketball is waning in the local area
3) We are doing a much poorer job of promotion, pricing, advertising than we once did.
4) There is much greater competition for the time and money of WBB fans than there once was.
Which of these is it?
One more potential issue - failure to get younger fans to come to games.
I see a similar issue up in Seattle when I go to women's games: average age of the few season ticket holders left for UW is 'dead.' The original hardcore women's BB fans are aging out. Someone has to market to Millennials (good luck with that) and Gen Z.
RE: WBB: Attendance - 81alum - 01-25-2020
(01-25-2020, 05:11 PM)triangle2 Wrote:The generational explanation made sense to me, especially since I have gotten to know the elderly couples who sit around me, and who come less and less often as their health deteriorates. A lot of them became fans not so much because of the sport but to support Title IX and gender equity. That was back when Stanford was one of the most progressive universities at fielding women's teams. So yes, those folks are aging out.(01-25-2020, 03:55 PM)81alum Wrote: There are only so many explanations:
1) Pac 12 network had undermined attendance.
2) Interest in basketball is waning in the local area
3) We are doing a much poorer job of promotion, pricing, advertising than we once did.
4) There is much greater competition for the time and money of WBB fans than there once was.
Which of these is it?
One more potential issue - failure to get younger fans to come to games.
I see a similar issue up in Seattle when I go to women's games: average age of the few season ticket holders left for UW is 'dead.' The original hardcore women's BB fans are aging out. Someone has to market to Millennials (good luck with that) and Gen Z.
But the generational explanation doesn't explain how Oregon, Oregon State, and Arizona are able to turn out 8-12 thousand fans. All three of those places are also in smaller metropolitan areas than we are. They have obviously conquered the generational issue. Why haven't we?
RE: WBB: Attendance - 76lsjumb - 01-25-2020
(01-25-2020, 05:19 PM)81alum Wrote:(01-25-2020, 05:11 PM)triangle2 Wrote:The generational explanation made sense to me, especially since I have gotten to know the elderly couples who sit around me, and who come less and less often as their health deteriorates. A lot of them became fans not so much because of the sport but to support Title IX and gender equity. That was back when Stanford was one of the most progressive universities at fielding women's teams. So yes, those folks are aging out.(01-25-2020, 03:55 PM)81alum Wrote: There are only so many explanations:
1) Pac 12 network had undermined attendance.
2) Interest in basketball is waning in the local area
3) We are doing a much poorer job of promotion, pricing, advertising than we once did.
4) There is much greater competition for the time and money of WBB fans than there once was.
Which of these is it?
One more potential issue - failure to get younger fans to come to games.
I see a similar issue up in Seattle when I go to women's games: average age of the few season ticket holders left for UW is 'dead.' The original hardcore women's BB fans are aging out. Someone has to market to Millennials (good luck with that) and Gen Z.
But the generational explanation doesn't explain how Oregon, Oregon State, and Arizona are able to turn out 8-12 thousand fans. All three of those places are also in smaller metropolitan areas than we are. They have obviously conquered the generational issue. Why haven't we?
It seems to me there is at least one more reason. When you are very good for a very long time but you never manage to win a National Championship, you aren't going to generate the type of bandwagon excitement that comes with doing that. That's what brings in new/more fans to supplement the stalwarts.
Oregon and Oregon State have never won a national championship, but they both think they've got a legitimate shot at it this season for the first time.
If/when we have a season where people really believe we are going to win it all -- not just do really well, and make it to the Final Four, but then, who knows? -- then the chance of it being "like the old days" will get much better.
RE: WBB: Attendance - oldalum - 01-25-2020
One contributing factor is the decline in local girls' basketball. In NJB (the local amateur league), Palo Alto is not even fielding an "All-Net" (all-star) girls team any more; we used to have 3 at different age groups, some of which won championships.
RE: WBB: Attendance - Baez87 - 01-25-2020
Last weekend, when I was listening to the Oregon State broadcast, the announcer was sharing her amazement that "fans have been lining up since 8:30am to get their tickets for the game." That reminded me of the basketball atmosphere in which I grew up. I lived in a small town in Montana, we had plenty of winter cold and snow, and the only show in town was the high school basketball game. The HS gymnasium was small, people loved to see the local team play other teams from around the state, and Fans, young and old, showed up at 5:15pm in all kinds of weather to get their tickets for the night's game. And they sold out every game!
Sure, it was a different era, but it was also a different place. It was a small community a long way from big cities, and they supported their home town talent. Corvallis, Eugene, and Tucson have some of these qualities. Of course, one can offer exceptions to this scenario, but my experience might contain a partial clue to Stanford’s dilemma.
I’m not saying that there is nothing that can we can do to increase fan interest and attendance. Adia Barnes has ignited her base in Tucson over the past three years. She recently tweeted Arizona fans challenging them to fill the arena by the thousands for the women's b-ball games. Her personal, charismatic appeal seems to be working.
https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2019/3/25/18280144/arizona-womens-basketball-wnit-fans-attendance-idaho-barnes-zonazoo-tickets
RE: WBB: Attendance - BostonCard - 01-25-2020
Isn’t it all Shaw’s fault?
BC
RE: WBB: Attendance - 81alum - 01-26-2020
Attendance today against Utah was 3369, which convinces me that weekend afternoon games do significantly better than weeknight games in general.
RE: WBB: Attendance - MVCard - 01-26-2020
Outside of a small strip of Palo Alto, if you aren't an alum I think you'd be hard-pressed to even know there's a top-tier women's basketball program within 15-20 minutes of the surrounding cities. The marketing drop-off is stark.
That said, I think there are deeper trends at play. High housing costs lead to more dual-job families with less time for sporting events, and less money that's not going to rent, mortgage payments, or property taxes. High salaries and operating costs for the programs mean less money for marketing and more upward pressure on ticket and concession prices. Stanford is fighting an elitist perception in the local community with the current battle over housing priorities and who pays for development, which I'm guessing probably turns off a few would-be fans. We have the 49ers and Quakes in the South Bay competing for time and attention with venues that are way ahead of what Maples offers. Bay Area traffic (and lack of infrastructure improvement) is adding more travel time to get anywhere, and Stanford isn't exactly winning any awards with its parking and logistics management.
I'd like to see Stanford find ways to appeal to more people, and make it easier to attend games. Reach out to the blue-collar population more, with lower ticket pricing, concession coupons, and maybe even some busing. Make better use of El Camino Grove so people can get in and out more easily (this includes driving improvements to El Camino itself, like not making everyone drive down to the Galvez/El Camino left turn light). Bring more variety with the stadium entertainment (LSJUMB/Dollies/Tree/Cheer needs to be part of the solution and also realize they might also be part of the problem). More stuff like that...
RE: WBB: Attendance - chrisk - 01-26-2020
(01-26-2020, 04:00 PM)81alum Wrote: Attendance today against Utah was 3369, which convinces me that weekend afternoon games do significantly better than weeknight games in general.
The commute traffic has continued to get worse. I don’t think this factor gas been mentioned enough.
The patterns of in-migration and out-migration are another factor.
With higher ticket prices, WBB may actually maximizing revenue.
The increase in TV games combined with the othe factors has definitely reduced attendance.
Somebody who has a strong interest in the team may not be deterred by a high ticket price, while $5 may not be low enough to convince somebody to get off their couch.
RE: WBB: Attendance - BobK - 01-29-2020
Average attendance thus far
https://mobile.twitter.com/sportspac12/status/1222628291271479296
RE: WBB: Attendance - 81alum - 01-29-2020
Wow, our attendance is 41st nationally. Yikes.
RE: WBB: Attendance - M T - 01-30-2020
(01-29-2020, 10:09 PM)81alum Wrote: Wow, our attendance is 41st nationally. Yikes.
What is this, a horse race? I don't see much reason to wring my hands over the fact that Stanford chooses to increase the prices rather than to increase attendance. Yeah, it impacts me financially, and probably does keep me from buying season tickets, but I don't really mind not having to squeeze into a seat, or park at the shopping mall.
I went to all the PAC-12 schools to see what the prices were for single game seats.
Stanford & Cal have different prices for different opponents, which I noted.
Some schools appear to have no reserved seats.
Face value only; no resale/scalped pricing; no "delivery fees" or similar.
I mention a few specials I noticed.
I've ordered them roughly from least to most expensive.
At Utah, vs Oregon
General Admission, lower bowl $6 (Youth $3)
At Arizona, vs. Stanford
General Admission, $8.00 (Senior/Youth $5)
At Washington State, vs Stanford:
Reserved $10.00
General Admission $7.00 (Senior/Youth $5)
At Oregon, for Washington & WSU (Stanford sold out apparently)
Reserved $8 (for upper sideline seats)
General admission $5 (Upper sideline is not General Admission; they seem to have some lower sideline & end zone GA)
Presumably there were more expensive reserved tickets, but no seats on the lower level are currently listed except as resale.
This article appears to indicate a lower row, baseline seat is $11 face value.
At USC (all games)
General Admission $10 (pre-purchase); $12 (day of game)
[$5 for last game of season]
At UCLA (all games)
Reserved $12 (Youth $10)
General Admission $10 (Youth $5)
($2 tickets "Plaza level" against Oregon with code "Pink")
At OSU, (all games)
Reserved $14.00
General Admission $9.00 (Senior/Youth $7.00)
At Colorado (all games)
Reserved $18
General Admission $12 (Under 12 Free)
At Washington, vs Stanford:
Donor Premier Courtside $20.00
Lower Level Baseline/Upper Sidelines $20.00
General Admission $10.00 - $15.00 (does include upper sidelines)
At ASU, vs Stanford
Reserved $20
General Admission $15
At Berkeley, vs Oregon [UCLA]
Courtside $50.00 [$41] (appears to be 2 rows on 1 side of court, plus 1 row on 1 baseline)
Reserved $30.00 - $40.00 [$18-41] (Vs UCLA, 3rd row, foul line is $18)
Adult GA $11.00 [$9] (Senior/Youth $7.00 [$7]) (upper sideline & end zone)
At Stanford, vs Oregon [UCLA]
Lower Chairback $45 [$30] (this includes both sidelines even though I believe one sideline has no "chairback" seats for about half the rows)
Lower Corner/Baseline Chairback $35 [$20]
Upper Center Court Reserved $35 [$20]
Upper Sideline Reserved $20 [$15] (Sr/Youth $18 [$13])
General Admission (end zone) $15 [$10] (Sr/Youth $12 [$8])
These say "advanced" so they may have a different price on day of game.
It would be interesting to do the same thing for season tickets next fall.
RE: WBB: Attendance - GK3 - 01-30-2020
(01-30-2020, 12:49 AM)M T Wrote:(01-29-2020, 10:09 PM)81alum Wrote: Wow, our attendance is 41st nationally. Yikes.
What is this, a horse race? I don't see much reason to wring my hands over the fact that Stanford chooses to increase the prices rather than to increase attendance. Yeah, it impacts me financially, and probably does keep me from buying season tickets, but I don't really mind not having to squeeze into a seat, or park at the shopping mall.
I went to all the PAC-12 schools to see what the prices were for single game seats.
Stanford & Cal have different prices for different opponents, which I noted.
Some schools appear to have no reserved seats.
Face value only; no resale/scalped pricing; no "delivery fees" or similar.
I mention a few specials I noticed.
I've ordered them roughly from least to most expensive.
At Utah, vs Oregon
General Admission, lower bowl $6 (Youth $3)
At Arizona, vs. Stanford
General Admission, $8.00 (Senior/Youth $5)
At Washington State, vs Stanford:
Reserved $10.00
General Admission $7.00 (Senior/Youth $5)
At Oregon, for Washington & WSU (Stanford sold out apparently)
Reserved $8 (for upper sideline seats)
General admission $5 (Upper sideline is not General Admission; they seem to have some lower sideline & end zone GA)
Presumably there were more expensive reserved tickets, but no seats on the lower level are currently listed except as resale.
This article appears to indicate a lower row, baseline seat is $11 face value.
At USC (all games)
General Admission $10 (pre-purchase); $12 (day of game)
[$5 for last game of season]
At UCLA (all games)
Reserved $12 (Youth $10)
General Admission $10 (Youth $5)
($2 tickets "Plaza level" against Oregon with code "Pink")
At OSU, (all games)
Reserved $14.00
General Admission $9.00 (Senior/Youth $7.00)
At Colorado (all games)
Reserved $18
General Admission $12 (Under 12 Free)
At Washington, vs Stanford:
Donor Premier Courtside $20.00
Lower Level Baseline/Upper Sidelines $20.00
General Admission $10.00 - $15.00 (does include upper sidelines)
At ASU, vs Stanford
Reserved $20
General Admission $15
At Berkeley, vs Oregon [UCLA]
Courtside $50.00 [$41] (appears to be 2 rows on 1 side of court, plus 1 row on 1 baseline)
Reserved $30.00 - $40.00 [$18-41] (Vs UCLA, 3rd row, foul line is $18)
Adult GA $11.00 [$9] (Senior/Youth $7.00 [$7]) (upper sideline & end zone)
At Stanford, vs Oregon [UCLA]
Lower Chairback $45 [$30] (this includes both sidelines even though I believe one sideline has no "chairback" seats for about half the rows)
Lower Corner/Baseline Chairback $35 [$20]
Upper Center Court Reserved $35 [$20]
Upper Sideline Reserved $20 [$15] (Sr/Youth $18 [$13])
General Admission (end zone) $15 [$10] (Sr/Youth $12 [$8])
These say "advanced" so they may have a different price on day of game.
It would be interesting to do the same thing for season tickets next fall.
Very interesting information. Thanks for taking the time to put all that together.
Frankly I think ticket prices affect not only women's sports, but men's basketball and football also. Plus you have to deal with the difficulty of getting to and home from Stanford games. In the 1990's I lived and worked in Walnut Creek and a friend and I had season tickets to basketball and football and had no issues getting to Stanford the evening games during the week. Now I would not want to even think about doing that. How many fans with school age kids are going to want to even think about doing that if they leave anywhere in the Bay Area? The Pac 12 deal I am sure siphons away some of the fans who are most able to afford to buy the tickets and make the drive. If you are willing to pay Sling $40 a month why even consider any other option. As a graduate and fan since childhood, I have been going to games of one kind or another since the 1950's. At one time it was easy and fun to go to a Stanford game, now it is none of the above, plus you get to pay a lot more for the increased difficulty. So why not just pay the fee and get the network. As bad as it is, you do get to watch a lot of other Stanford sports you would not see otherwise. So instead of buying tickets for 5, driving for 90 plus minutes each way, paying for parking etc. I pay $40 and get more in the bargain.
RE: WBB: Attendance - teejers1 - 01-30-2020
(01-30-2020, 08:09 AM)GK3 Wrote: The Pac 12 deal I am sure siphons away some of the fans who are most able to afford to buy the tickets and make the drive.
This evening's game (8:00 p.m.) is a good example. [Actually, I don't know if this is on P12 or not - but effect of TV also negatively impacts attendance]. When my kids were younger, an 8:00 p.m. start would be a non-starter (and is now for my niece, an Ivy grad, and her kids in Palo Alto). I may bring one kid to tonight's game.
I know this sounds like a "get off my lawn" or #okayboomer lament: but I miss the days of the Pac 10, with Thursday/Saturday games (occasionally a Sunday one) and a complete home and away round robin. No need for a post-season tourney to determine conference champion. The season did that.
Oh well . . . maybe I'll try and go to Vegas this year for P12 tourney and feel better about the whole thing . . .
RE: WBB: Attendance - BobK - 01-30-2020
The game is on tv So attendance a bit down
RE: WBB: Attendance - triangle2 - 01-30-2020
(01-30-2020, 11:31 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(01-30-2020, 08:09 AM)GK3 Wrote: The Pac 12 deal I am sure siphons away some of the fans who are most able to afford to buy the tickets and make the drive.
This evening's game (8:00 p.m.) is a good example. [Actually, I don't know if this is on P12 or not - but effect of TV also negatively impacts attendance]. When my kids were younger, an 8:00 p.m. start would be a non-starter (and is now for my niece, an Ivy grad, and her kids in Palo Alto). I may bring one kid to tonight's game.
I know this sounds like a "get off my lawn" or #okayboomer lament: but I miss the days of the Pac 10, with Thursday/Saturday games (occasionally a Sunday one) and a complete home and away round robin. No need for a post-season tourney to determine conference champion. The season did that.
Oh well . . . maybe I'll try and go to Vegas this year for P12 tourney and feel better about the whole thing . . .
But if you went to the tourney, you'd end up pulling your hair out after watching 2-3 games of Pac-12 officiating without a break.
I know I'm not the only WBB fan who has substantially reduced going to games in person in order to avoid Missy PTSD. The worst part of this is that the conference basically doesn't seem to care whether I go or not. Twenty years ago, Washington, Stanford, UCLA, USC and ASU had the potential to be revenue generating programs. As I recall, Washington was actually revenue generating during most of the Chris Goebrecht era. They've traded ticket admissions for Pac-12 network revenue. Only, that isn't going so well...