WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT

WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - BosCard - 02-28-2020

(02-28-2020, 08:35 PM)stanford22 Wrote: I don’t understand why Maya is at the key. Her strength is at the basket. Why doesn’t she drive to the basket? Why don’t we use more screens? Why don’t we pass inside then pass back out? Need to make the shots easier. Kiana is going to get worn down. Yes, the drivers to the basket are all injured.

The recipe to beat us is pretty simple, play physical defense which will cause the Hulls to turn the ball over and miss layups. That means that Kiana becomes our one and only scoring threat.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - 81alum - 02-28-2020

The strange thing is, we did not have to drive to the basket after all. We made 13 treys shooting 48%. Astounding. And held their star and second leading scorer Cate Reese to 0 point. I would never in a million years have though we could have lost a game in which we did those things.

But we did. And it was more than turnovers. Our defense let us down at some key points. Arizona had 4 players who average in the single digits who all scored in double digits. Give them some credit for stepping up to counter the scouting report defense.

Well, at least we won't have to wait very long to see if Tara can teach the team to fix these problems. Because CTT will watch the tape and give us the same defense on Sunday.

Oh, and write-up done at the top.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - chimera - 02-28-2020

There went another winnable game where we got a decent lead and then couldn't score for a stretch. My overall take is we just don't have the horses this season or the overall experience to be consistently good. It is definitely frustrating, because to me it seems as though the team has not quite progressed as far as I thought. The offense just looks like a struggle rather than well-oiled, and at this point in the season, it needs to be well-oiled, or close to it. Injuries have really hurt.

We need a third reliable scorer and don't have one. Don't always have two. Make a few more FTs and this game is a win. Make a couple fewer TOS and probably a win. We've had this basic offense for a few years now, and I've never really warmed to it totally. Just seems with games as physical as they are, this offense is hard to execute well. That or the team is just not able to execute it well enough at this point. We can't impose our offense on good teams. That would all be different if we had Carrington 100% healthy, or even 90%, and Jones too, but not to be.

I hate to say this too, because end of game coaching has been brobdingnagian in a few wins, but the inbounds we did against OSU where we escaped, and then this last play were...not great. Something overall just feels off to me about how the team is playing. Could be a late-season slump, which happens, but it feels worse, like this is basically how good the team is and they have no other gear left to get to.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - 81alum - 02-28-2020

And again Tara hardly used any depth. We had 4 players plus the rotation of Dodson-Belibi-Prechtel. But basically the same four starters played almost all the minutes except for some minor cameos. Williams was out there for 45.

Did anyone notice if Jenna Brown was dressed?

And all those people who expected Carrington to return--I am more and more convinced she is playing somewhere in college next year. I hope it is here but something doesn't seem quite right about it.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - chimera - 02-28-2020

The more I think about it the less I like how this game went. We shot the lights out from three and still lost. That tells me there are deeper issues than just execute better or make a few more shots. A really good team should not lose a game where they made 13 threes and shot them at 48%. When that happens there are fundamental problems.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - petersalas - 02-28-2020

I have the same suspicion about Carrington.. I can’t imagine that she would come back this late in the season for what could be 3 or (crossing fingers) 10 games and helping them win the national championship... I do hope if she’s sitting out this year that she’s returning to Stanford to finish out her college career.. I still wonder if they are waiting to hear decision on Anna Wilson’s appeal to make redshirt decision on D.

I don’t see Jenna in the pic the team took during shoot around... missing we’re also Jones and Carrington.

(02-28-2020, 09:14 PM)81alum Wrote: And again Tara hardly used any depth. We had 4 players plus the rotation of Dodson-Belibi-Prechtel. But basically the same four started played almost all the minutes except for some minor cameos. Williams was out there for 45.

Did anyone notice if Jenna Brown was dressed?

And all those people who expected Carrington to return--I am more and more convinced she is playing somewhere in college next year. I hope it is here but something doesn't seem quite right about it.

Definitely.. I think it’s missing free throws that are supposed to ice the game, fouling at end of games and then turning over the ball at the very end of the game..

(02-28-2020, 09:40 PM)chimera Wrote: The more I think about it the less I like how this game went. We shot the lights out from three and still lost. That tells me there are deeper issues than just execute better or make a few more shots. A really good team should not lose a game where they made 13 threes and shot them at 48%. When that happens there are fundamental problems.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - JTM - 02-28-2020

The offensive ‘charges’ that are not called really gets to me. McDonald had one tonight where she drives to the basket, leans into Nadia to push her out of the way, bounces off, then throws up a layup. A foul on the defender is usually called. If the shot misses, she gets 2 free throws. If it goes in, it’s a chance at a 3-point play. The good foul shooters use this technique a lot. It’s a high percentage play because the refs almost always call a foul and always on the defender. Destiny Slocum uses it well. And as someone pointed out, Kelsey Plum made a living with it. It’s as aggravating as 3-point shooters who kick out their feet on the follow-through to get contact and a foul called. Fortunately this trick is no longer called. Then there’s the ‘moving screens’ where the offensive player hides behind the screen, then the screener starts moving to the basket to push the defender out of the way. But that’s another rant.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - 81alum - 02-28-2020

(02-28-2020, 09:58 PM)JTM Wrote: The offensive ‘charges’ that are not called really gets to me. McDonald had one tonight where she drives to the basket, leans into Nadia to push her out of the way, bounces off, then throws up a layup. A foul on the defender is usually called. If the shot misses, she gets 2 free throws. If it goes in, it’s a chance at a 3-point play. The good foul shooters use this technique a lot. It’s a high percentage play because the refs almost always call a foul and always on the defender. Destiny Slocum uses it well. And as someone pointed out, Kelsey Plum made a living with it. It’s as aggravating as 3-point shooters who kick out their feet on the follow-through to get contact and a foul called.

Yes, and Carrington was able to do this for us. Like it or not it is now part of the game, and we need players who can do this for us. The coaches have compared Agnes Nwopu coming in next year to Carrington, but she is going to take time to get to that level, if she does.

Earlier in the year we saw Belibi take it to the basket from the free throw line several times to score. I've seen Dodson do it too, although it is becoming a distant memory. I don't think I've ever seen Fingall do that--but she can easily shoot from there. That needs to be part of the Princeton--when they stand there and don't see an open player, they need to be able to cut to the basket and score in contact. Jones certainly does that. Will be interested to see how well Brink does from that position.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - Card Fan in OR - 02-28-2020

Just back from dinner out, so this is my first chance to pose my question:

Can someone please explain to me the thinking behind putting Jerome in for the inbounds play and then throwing the inbounds pass to her? I like Jerome's play, but her free throw shooting percentage, while not horrific, is not particularly good. Why is the play not designed to inbound the ball to our best free throw shooters: Williams, Hull, or Hull? There must be some strategy there that is just not apparent to me. It seems like that play cost us a pretty decent chance of a regulation win. Not that 2/2 is automatic, even for Williams, Hull, or Hull, but what is the thinking?

Color me "Frustrated in OR" that our women have trouble putting away games it looks to me like they should.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - GK3 - 02-29-2020

(02-28-2020, 10:35 PM)Card Fan in OR Wrote: Just back from dinner out, so this is my first chance to pose my question:

Can someone please explain to me the thinking behind putting Jerome in for the inbounds play and then throwing the inbounds pass to her? I like Jerome's play, but her free throw shooting percentage, while not horrific, is not particularly good. Why is the play not designed to inbound the ball to our best free throw shooters: Williams, Hull, or Hull? There must be some strategy there that is just not apparent to me. It seems like that play cost us a pretty decent chance of a regulation win. Not that 2/2 is automatic, even for Williams, Hull, or Hull, but what is the thinking?

Color me "Frustrated in OR" that our women have trouble putting away games it looks to me like they should.

Agreed, that inbound play made no sense at all. I think we lost the game because we turned it over 22 times, a season high. Only reason we were in it at the end was we shot almost 50% from 3 point range. That kept us in the game and made it possible for us to still win it until the end. Very, very hard to win a game on the road against a good team when you have 22 turn overs. I also just don't get how the Princeton offense works for this group, particularly with how poor the passing is at this point.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - M T - 02-29-2020

I suspected we were likely to have trouble when I saw the set of refs. From the "charge" on a Az player in the arc at the beginning of the game, to the final non-call on the final rebound.

I have to say that Aari McDonald plays like Earl Campbell did. Put your head down and plow into whoever is in front of you. There was an egregious bowling over of, I think, Fran, where she drove straight into stationary Fran with her shoulder and knocked her back a couple of feet. How could not one ref see that? Oh yea, I think she walked with the ball after that collision, but they wouldn't call that. Aari also does this head waggle thing that seems to convince Kyle Bacon every time.

When you're being called for things that aren't fouls, you're going to pull back on defense. That's one of the things that happened.

We all agree that the main problem was the turnovers, of all shapes and sizes. Lazy passes, impossible passes, where-did-my-dribble-go passes, loss of all sense of time issues.

We also continue to have a problem with failing to punish the opponent for harassing us in the back court. That lets them keep more back on their missed shots, and limits our playing time in the front court. If it is 3 on 3 in the front court, we should attack, not wait for 5-on-5.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - martyup - 02-29-2020

I feel bad for Lexie. She really tries hard, but has had a couple of bad games. Her feet are not quick enough to defend fast point gaurds. She gets beat up driving to the hoop. I think with more experience she will play within her limitations and decrease her turnovers and increase assists. I like the Hulls and see a big upside in their games.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - jonnyss - 02-29-2020

(02-28-2020, 10:35 PM)Card Fan in OR Wrote: Just back from dinner out, so this is my first chance to pose my question:

Can someone please explain to me the thinking behind putting Jerome in for the inbounds play and then throwing the inbounds pass to her? I like Jerome's play, but her free throw shooting percentage, while not horrific, is not particularly good. Why is the play not designed to inbound the ball to our best free throw shooters: Williams, Hull, or Hull? There must be some strategy there that is just not apparent to me. It seems like that play cost us a pretty decent chance of a regulation win. Not that 2/2 is automatic, even for Williams, Hull, or Hull, but what is the thinking?

Color me "Frustrated in OR" that our women have trouble putting away games it looks to me like they should.

agreed. if you're ahead by 2 with the ball and under 30 left, you have your "hands" team in: the best ball-handlers / best free-throw shooters. you don't need post players on offense. you can put them back in for defense after the foul.

i couldn't possibly coach anything complicated. i do know enough to say to my wife, "they have to foul, so we'll put in our best free-throw shooters." then we didn't. our top 5 are kiana, the twins, anna wilson, and hannah jump. putting in (a not warmed-up) alyssa jerome is just...i am tempted to be inflammatory...may i simply say "wrong?" the defense, on the other hand, knows perfectly well that jerome is not the best free-throw shooter and correctly leaves her (relatively) open to receive the pass.

terrible strategy as well on the inbounds to fingall. kiana was open. nadia is a good post player but not the best player to place near the in-bounder to receive a pass when we know she will be immediately triple-teamed in the corner. asking for a turnover and getting one.

we had some great inbounds plays late in tight games recently, but not last night.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - BosCard - 02-29-2020

(02-28-2020, 10:29 PM)81alum Wrote:
(02-28-2020, 09:58 PM)JTM Wrote: The offensive ‘charges’ that are not called really gets to me. McDonald had one tonight where she drives to the basket, leans into Nadia to push her out of the way, bounces off, then throws up a layup. A foul on the defender is usually called. If the shot misses, she gets 2 free throws. If it goes in, it’s a chance at a 3-point play. The good foul shooters use this technique a lot. It’s a high percentage play because the refs almost always call a foul and always on the defender. Destiny Slocum uses it well. And as someone pointed out, Kelsey Plum made a living with it. It’s as aggravating as 3-point shooters who kick out their feet on the follow-through to get contact and a foul called.
Yes, and Carrington was able to do this for us. Like it or not it is now part of the game, and we need players who can do this for us. The coaches have compared Agnes Nwopu coming in next year to Carrington, but she is going to take time to get to that level, if she does.

Earlier in the year we saw Belibi take it to the basket from the free throw line several times to score. I've seen Dodson do it too, although it is becoming a distant memory. I don't think I've ever seen Fingall do that--but she can easily shoot from there. That needs to be part of the Princeton--when they stand there and don't see an open player, they need to be able to cut to the basket and score in contact. Jones certainly does that. Will be interested to see how well Brink does from that position.

I think both Brink next year and Demetre the year after that can both drive or shoot from the elbow. That is part of the reason why they are both so highly ranked. Certainly Jones can do that. And while I am not sure if Belibi will ever be shooting consistently from there, she can certainly rip and drive from that spot. She just hasn't quite figured out her footwork and I think it is fear of traveling/turning the ball over that is preventing her from doing it more often.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - qwerty49 - 02-29-2020

I just finished watching the replay. I think we are all being pretty realistic in assessing this team. Basically, we are offensively challenged and the injuries really expose our weaknesses. I used to think teams could just zone us and take advantage of our inconsistent shooting. But I don't recall AZ ever going into zone; they played super-aggressive man and forced so many turnovers. They just won the matchup game all night except for the times we were able to get Belibi loose down low. AZ had the quickest player on the floor in McDonald drawing lots of attention and had 3 other guards that could bury the open 3.

And yet even after that horrible first quarter, we were able to come back and build a 9-pt lead in the 2nd half. But wow, every time we had a chance to put the game away during that stretch, we turned the ball over. That was like having a root canal.

The intangible, the collective killer instinct to put an opponent away when you've got a nice lead in the 2nd half, seems to be missing from this team.

It is a joy, though, to watch Kiana play, when she and everyone else in the building knows that she will have to take us on her back.

RE: WBB: Arizona 73 Stanford 72 OT - mbdude - 02-29-2020

With Maya playing high post it is more difficult to drive because her defender just sags off, same with Fram to some extent.
It seemed to me that when Nadia and Ashten were starting there was more room because 1 would be at the high post, and the other outside, both legit threats