Trump blames Michigan’s Governor’s COVID-19 response for assassination attempt - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Trump blames Michigan’s Governor’s COVID-19 response for assassination attempt (/thread-20603.html)

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RE: Trump blames Michigan’s Governor’s COVID-19 response for assassination attempt - magnus - 10-14-2020

Early on there was minimal linking between mask usefulness and availability.  One could read between the lines to establish that motivation but they never said it in the same sentence.  Instead it was,  masks will do more harm than good because people aren't smart enough to use them without touching their face. (Ok, they didn't comment on the intelligence but that's basically it meant.   We're not smart enough to learn not to touch our faces).

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RE: Trump blames Michigan’s Governor’s COVID-19 response for assassination attempt - fullmetal - 10-14-2020

Early on we were seeing doctors and nurses in China getting ill/dying until they donned full PPE...but sure, let's say that we had no idea that masks would be useful :(

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lex24 - lex24 - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 06:31 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  Whether it was a lie or not, it had adverse public health consequences; I suspect he wants that one back.  When Fauci’s legacy is evaluated, his early stance on masks will be a part of it.

However, judged on the totality of  his contributions in fighting this pandemic, I suspect his legacy will be positive overall.

BC

Didn’t the WHO also state at the beginning that masks do not help?

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RE: lex24 - M T - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 08:24 PM)lex24 Wrote:  Didn’t the WHO also state at the beginning that masks do not help?

I believe that neither WHO nor CDC said a mask did not help.

Instead the CDC said that they "did not recommend" wearing a mask unless you were infected, or you were caring for an infected person.

CDC FAQ from March 31:
"CDC does not recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory illnesses, including COVID-19. You should only wear a mask if a healthcare professional recommends it. A facemask should be used by people who have COVID-19 and are showing symptoms. This is to protect others from the risk of getting infected. The use of facemasks also is crucial for health workers and other people who are taking care of someone infected with COVID-19 in close settings (at home or in a health care facility)."

For a WHO poster, see BC's post from March 29.

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RE: lex24 - magnus - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 09:23 PM)M T Wrote:  

(10-14-2020, 08:24 PM)lex24 Wrote:  Didn’t the WHO also state at the beginning that masks do not help?

I believe that neither WHO nor CDC said a mask did not help.

Instead the CDC said that they "did not recommend" wearing a mask unless you were infected, or you were caring for an infected person.

CDC FAQ from March 31:
"CDC does not recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory illnesses, including COVID-19. You should only wear a mask if a healthcare professional recommends it. A facemask should be used by people who have COVID-19 and are showing symptoms. This is to protect others from the risk of getting infected. The use of facemasks also is crucial for health workers and other people who are taking care of someone infected with COVID-19 in close settings (at home or in a health care facility)."

For a WHO poster, see BC's post from March 29.

Hmmm, perhaps it wasn't the CDC, but the HHS or Dr Birx or...ahh, the Surgeon General said it could make you more susceptible:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html

And has CDC language always been so easy to misinterpret?  "Do not recommend" can easily be misconstrued as "recommend...don't".

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RE: lex24 - BostonCard - 10-15-2020

(10-14-2020, 11:38 PM)magnus Wrote:  Hmmm, perhaps it wasn't the CDC, but the HHS or Dr Birx or...ahh, the Surgeon General said it could make you more susceptible:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html

And has CDC language always been so easy to misinterpret?  "Do not recommend" can easily be misconstrued as "recommend...don't".

Yes, this has been a problem, as has communication about the absence of evidence of benefit being interpreted as evidence of absence of benefit.

BC

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RE: Trump blames Michigan’s Governor’s COVID-19 response for assassination attempt - Goose - 10-15-2020

This interests me. I didn't say Fauci lied. Fauci said Fauci lied. He didn't say he prevaricated, or didn't tell the whole truth. I see a lot of people trying to explain this away. Fauci clearly doesn't believe he himself met the required standard of truthfulness. He said he lied to prevent the public from getting all the available face masks. At that point in history, doctors were not (yet) wearing N95 masks bought at Home Depot, so IMHO it is a bit of a stretch, but in this case I will take Fauci at his word.

What I believe is true, and this is opinion, is that our society, and particularly our media, has made Jack Nicholson correct. "They" believe "we" (the public) can't handle the truth, and the media for sure won't cover "the truth" if it is complex, somewhat ambiguous and considered "boring details". So, in our society, it is better to lie and make an absolute statement than to tell a nuanced truth.

It is also better to say you lied than to admit you changed your mind in response to new data. If you do the latter, CNN will provide four talking heads on every possible side of the issue, three of whom know absolutely nothing about the issue. In short, lying is more OK than changing your mind. Fauci did say that new data did change the situation and his opinion, but he did not use that as an exculpatory fact. I think he simply said "masks won't be useful" because explaining his actual thinking wasn't a sound bite and wouldn't be heard. That was, and is, both a moral "evil" and ultimately counterproductive, because at least some members of the public will remember what you said previously. No danger the media will though. Nobody in the MSM has highlighted this issue that I am aware of.

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RE: Trump blames Michigan’s Governor’s COVID-19 response for assassination attempt - BostonCard - 10-15-2020

Getting back to the plot against Whitmer...

1) some of the domestic terrorists who planned to kidnap Whitmer apparently also discussed kidnapping the governor of Virginia.
2) Trump again goes back at Whitmer today:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/status/1316743466702065665[/tweet]

You would think that in light of what happened, he might back off his dog whistling, but it's almost as if he is asking those people who he previously asked to "stand by" to now mobilize.

BC

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RE: Trump blames Michigan’s Governor’s COVID-19 response for assassination attempt - oregontim - 10-15-2020

(10-15-2020, 08:53 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  Getting back to the plot against Whitmer...

1) some of the domestic terrorists who planned to kidnap Whitmer apparently also discussed kidnapping the governor of Virginia.
2) Trump again goes back at Whitmer today:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/status/1316743466702065665[/tweet]

You would think that in light of what happened, he might back off his dog whistling, but it's almost as if he is asking those people who he previously asked to "stand by" to now mobilize.

BC

Yes, agreed. So far two of the three "liberate" states from Trump's April 17 "liberate" tweets. Creepy correlation.

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RE: Trump blames Michigan’s Governor’s COVID-19 response for assassination attempt - 82 Card - 10-15-2020

(10-15-2020, 11:18 AM)oregontim Wrote:  Yes, agreed. So far two of the three "liberate" states from Trump's April 17 "liberate" tweets. Creepy correlation.

With daily new cases running at about 23.5/100K, maybe Minnesota is considered sufficiently "liberated."

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