K.J. and the Pirate Episode 4 - Printable Version
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RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 4 - OutsiderFan - 10-31-2020
I LOVE watching Alabama, so I'm watching them play MSU. Bama is completely dominating the LOS.
On KJ's last series, against a 3-man rush, he was sacked, had a pass batted down, was forced out of pocket and took a shot to the head when trying to run for a few yards.
Trevor Lawrence would struggle with so little protection. The backup True Frosh looks no better, FWIW. Sure will be interesting to see if Leach is able to recruit to his system. He's improved everywhere he has been, so I don't doubt he can, but I've never seen a Leach team look so inept. This Alabama team gave up 600 yards and 48 pts to Ole Miss. MSU is losing 27-0 at half.
RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 4 - Snorlax94 - 10-31-2020
This feels like it will be my last post on the Pirate at MS, what else is left to say.
I feel bad for KJ.
As for the Pirate at MS, I will say I didn't know exactly what would happen, but now that I see what has happened, I shouldn't be surprised.
I was never a fan of Leach, and I've been clear of that, but also I've never been a fan of his system. I feel like Coach David Shaw doesn't get enough praise and Coach Leach gets too much praise.
David Shaw's system may peak only once in-a-while. It's crazy complexity causes conniptions for many quarterbacks, and it's a beast for young quarterbacks, which is often the case with kids going off to the NFL. So it feels like you get these peak years only once-in-a-while and you're pulling your hair out because it always feel too complicated to unleash its maximum potential, and on top of that, with injuries, it feels like we're too frequently at the "delay of game" training wheels level. But during the peak years, when they happen, Stanford has a system with a very high ceiling -- a crushing victory in an Orange Bowl, one of the greatest wins ever in the Rose Bowl. And Coach Shaw has played against many of the best in the game -- he's played Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Michigan State, and though he lost two of those, it's always close. It's always been a winnable game (a missed field goal, a key injury to Ty Montgomery). And in the Pac 12, he has beaten every team. He's whipped the pirate. He's brought tears to the Oregon system, beat Petersen, got the Utah monkey off his back.
Stanford -- with its academic standards -- isn't going to be deep enough to reload a 2011, 2012 or 2015 season every year. But the ceiling is very high, and, I hope, with a special year and some luck staying healthy, high enough to achieve the goal of a championship during the right year. If a 4 team playoff had existed during the Luck years, we should have been in the hunt.
Mike Leach's system, on the other hand, feels like a gimmick. It exploits the inconsistency of almost all college programs that cannot field enough quality defensive backs to cover 5 receivers. Very few colleges can consistently field the needed 5-10 defensive backs to cover the Air Raid for a game, and with injuries over the season, very few colleges have the 8-15 quality backs on a roster. But the Air Raid has a known Kryptonite that we've all seen for years. He was never able to beat a Chris Petersen defense. Never once. It drove the Wazoo fans I know absolutely bonkers. If you play a team that brings 8 good, healthy defensive backs, and that can deliver pressure with 3 down lineman, that is your Kryptonite. He was never able to win that game at an Apple Cup. His system appears incapable of winning that situation. You could have Minshew, you could have Falk, but you were never going to win the Apple Cup. So why in the world would Leach ever take a coaching position in the one conference in the country known for growing defensive monsters that could deliver a super-sized version of a Chris Petersen defense game after game after game after game?
I am guessing ego, mixed with vanity, combined with a good dosing of greed.
He should've gone to someplace like the ACC where he might get whipped every year by Clemson, but by and large, he wouldn't face his Kryptonite every game and he might be able to occasionally have a pretty good year and rake in some good dough.
But his scheme is exposed now. It has been displayed openly that his system has a structural limited ceiling, and there was only so far it could ever get. Maybe in a peak year an Alamo Bowl victory with the right seniors and the right opponent at a bowl game for the #2 team in a conference.
Good luck to KJ. I hope he is OK. I wish for his good health, and success in wherever his future takes him.
RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 4 - teejers1 - 11-01-2020
(10-31-2020, 10:31 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote: This feels like it will be my last post on the Pirate at MS, what else is left to say.
I feel bad for KJ.
As for the Pirate at MS, I will say I didn't know exactly what would happen, but now that I see what has happened, I shouldn't be surprised.
I was never a fan of Leach, and I've been clear of that, but also I've never been a fan of his system. I feel like Coach David Shaw doesn't get enough praise and Coach Leach gets too much praise.
David Shaw's system may peak only once in-a-while. It's crazy complexity causes conniptions for many quarterbacks, and it's a beast for young quarterbacks, which is often the case with kids going off to the NFL. So it feels like you get these peak years only once-in-a-while and you're pulling your hair out because it always feel too complicated to unleash its maximum potential, and on top of that, with injuries, it feels like we're too frequently at the "delay of game" training wheels level. But during the peak years, when they happen, Stanford has a system with a very high ceiling -- a crushing victory in an Orange Bowl, one of the greatest wins ever in the Rose Bowl. And Coach Shaw has played against many of the best in the game -- he's played Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Michigan State, and though he lost two of those, it's always close. It's always been a winnable game (a missed field goal, a key injury to Ty Montgomery). And in the Pac 12, he has beaten every team. He's whipped the pirate. He's brought tears to the Oregon system, beat Petersen, got the Utah monkey off his back.
Stanford -- with its academic standards -- isn't going to be deep enough to reload a 2011, 2012 or 2015 season every year. But the ceiling is very high, and, I hope, with a special year and some luck staying healthy, high enough to achieve the goal of a championship during the right year. If a 4 team playoff had existed during the Luck years, we should have been in the hunt.
Mike Leach's system, on the other hand, feels like a gimmick. It exploits the inconsistency of almost all college programs that cannot field enough quality defensive backs to cover 5 receivers. Very few colleges can consistently field the needed 5-10 defensive backs to cover the Air Raid for a game, and with injuries over the season, very few colleges have the 8-15 quality backs on a roster. But the Air Raid has a known Kryptonite that we've all seen for years. He was never able to beat a Chris Petersen defense. Never once. It drove the Wazoo fans I know absolutely bonkers. If you play a team that brings 8 good, healthy defensive backs, and that can deliver pressure with 3 down lineman, that is your Kryptonite. He was never able to win that game at an Apple Cup. His system appears incapable of winning that situation. You could have Minshew, you could have Falk, but you were never going to win the Apple Cup. So why in the world would Leach ever take a coaching position in the one conference in the country known for growing defensive monsters that could deliver a super-sized version of a Chris Petersen defense game after game after game after game?
I am guessing ego, mixed with vanity, combined with a good dosing of greed.
He should've gone to someplace like the ACC where he might get whipped every year by Clemson, but by and large, he wouldn't face his Kryptonite every game and he might be able to occasionally have a pretty good year and rake in some good dough.
But his scheme is exposed now. It has been displayed openly that his system has a structural limited ceiling, and there was only so far it could ever get. Maybe in a peak year an Alamo Bowl victory with the right seniors and the right opponent at a bowl game for the #2 team in a conference.
Good luck to KJ. I hope he is OK. I wish for his good health, and success in wherever his future takes him.
Agree entirely (I think) with your comments about Leach;
Disagree entirely (I think) with you comments about Shaw.
Mediocre. Offensive. Mind. Period.
RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 4 - OutsiderFan - 11-01-2020
No Head Coach should ever be judged on his first year. Some take over talented rosters and do well with them, but will be shown incapable of sustaining what someone else built. Some tear down and rebuild, often times with very inexperienced players.
I'm not judging Leach just yet. I want to see what he learns, how he adapts to what he has and must overcome from his first year at Miss St, before drawing any conclusion about him there.
RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 4 - JustAnotherFan - 11-01-2020
KJ had a good run. It's a shame that things are not working out at Miss State after such a bright start. Leach's shortcomings have really been exposed and he's going to have to evolve quickly to counter that. I don't see that happening this year for KJ. I don't see KJ playing in the NFL. What Leach did for Minshew is the exact opposite of what's happening for KJ. Hopefully that 40 year decision starts paying dividends soon.
RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 4 - winflop - 11-01-2020
Way way way too early to judge Leach at MSU. You can probably count on one hand the number of players taking snaps that's he actually recruited - outside of garbage time.
Do I think he will be successful? Depends on how MSU defines that. They aren't going to contend for a division title no matter who's at the helm.
I feel bad for KJ. At this point if I were in his shoes I'd give serious consideration to shutting it down and focusing on preparing for the draft. He's more likely to get creamed again than to put something on tape that scouts haven't already seen.
lex24 - lex24 - 11-01-2020
I feel for KJ also. But this was foreseeable. In fact it’s what I predicted (not happy that I was, for once, ). Going to play for a poor SEC team playing that schedule under a Leach in his first year was a mistake. Assuming he had other options out of the portal, KJ got poor advice.
I make no bones about my disdain for Leach. He may succeed at some point SEC. But it was bound to be ugly in year one. Although I don’t think many thought it was going to be this ugly. Personally I hope he falls flat on his face.
As for KJ - two concussions in two years. I hope he considers his health and sits it out. If he still wants to take a shot at NFL he cam begin preparing and hope he gets invited to the combine.
(11-01-2020, 06:17 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: No Head Coach should ever be judged on his first year. Some take over talented rosters and do well with them, but will be shown incapable of sustaining what someone else built. Some tear down and rebuild, often times with very inexperienced players.
I'm not judging Leach just yet. I want to see what he learns, how he adapts to what he has and must overcome from his first year at Miss St, before drawing any conclusion about him there.
True. I wish whomever was advising KJ had considered this. It was not hard to predict that this year would be very very rough. KJ paid the price.
For all the hoopla around the numbers his QB’s put up, the only one I recall ever succeeding in the NFL is Minshew. (Going back to his Texas Tech days, not just WSU). For KJ I suspect the thought was find a place where he can raise his NFL stock. No reason to think Leach was that guy. His QB’s Numbers mean nothing to NFL teams. What we don’t know is what other options he had.
What I have noticed is that they get no RAC. As soon as it’s caught, they are buried. Part of that, I suspect is superior athletes on the defenses he now faces. Part I suspect, is he does not have “his guys”. I think on one “drive” KJ went 3-3 for about 2 total yards. Without the RAC that offense is dead.
RE: lex24 - oldalum - 11-01-2020
(11-01-2020, 09:24 AM)lex24 Wrote: What I have noticed is that they get no RAC. As soon as it’s caught, they are buried. Part of that, I suspect is superior athletes on the defenses he now faces. Part I suspect, is he does not have “his guys”. I think on one “drive” KJ went 3-3 for about 2 total yards. Without the RAC that offense is dead.yeah, the problem is that with leaky (Leach-y?) pass protection, he's restricted to quick passes and the defenders are right there.
RE: lex24 - SamuelMcF - 11-01-2020
(11-01-2020, 09:24 AM)lex24 Wrote: For KJ I suspect the thought was find a place where he can raise his NFL stock. No reason to think Leach was that guy. His QB’s Numbers mean nothing to NFL teams. What we don’t know is what other options he had.
We do know UW and LSU were interested. He took a visit to Seattle at one point.
RE: K.J. and the Pirate Episode 4 - Goose - 11-01-2020
The problems on offense at MS stem from a very poor offensive line and no running threat. Put any QB you might name out there and it still won't go well. When they could run a little (before their one good back got hurt and then quit), the 3 man front with 8 in a zone would give up yards on the ground. It wouldn't be flashy, but it would probably force the linebackers to drop lots slower and open up some pass routes. Without that, the QB has no options. He gets sacked, throws it into coverage, or attempts to run. None of that will work well. Not for KJ, not for Brady.
This isn't directly Leach's fault. He has what he has in terms of players. Probably lots of them became under motivated based on Leach's lack of a relationship with them, but that is a secondary factor. MS just doesn't have the horses, and you can't coach around that. What happens in future years remains to be seen, but I doubt Leach will be able to do there what he did in Pullman.