Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - Printable Version
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lex24 - lex24 - 11-29-2020
(11-29-2020, 09:57 PM)needle Wrote:(11-29-2020, 09:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Sure, blame county health officials. But it's the politicians and libertarian types planting FUD about masks, contact tracing, shutdowns, suggestions to not travel or gather with others, and anything else being attempted to curb spread, that make available NPIs ineffective at stopping it. It certainly isn't people like Dr. Cody. Does anyone doubt that if everyone behaved as she and any number of health experts recommended that we'd be in the mess we are in?
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1155/5881818
With respect to sports this fall, I think Stanford has done what it thinks is best for students participating. I think it would be wise at this time to do what is best for the community-at-large and fully abide by the county order.
However, I fully expect that Stanford football will play its two announced games against Pac-12 opponents and that both basketball teams will continue playing games for the next two weeks. Don't expect anything close to a defiant tone from what will surely be carefully worded statements of concern from Stanford leaders, but the actions will speak volumes...
Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I doubt it. Ultimately, Stanford athletics does not want to take up a leadership position on this issue. The precedent has been set elsewhere that big-time college athletics doesn't abide by the spirit of state health orders, much less county orders.
How has Stanford athletics playing hurt the “community at large”. (Besides the pain we all have had at times watching the football team... :) ) Is there ANY evidence of that.
(11-29-2020, 09:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Sure, blame county health officials. But it's the politicians and libertarian types planting FUD about masks, contact tracing, shutdowns, suggestions to not travel or gather with others, and anything else being attempted to curb spread, that make available NPIs ineffective at stopping it. It certainly isn't people like Dr. Cody. Does anyone doubt that if everyone behaved as she and any number of health experts recommended that we'd be in the mess we are in?
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1155/5881818
All well and good. But that doesn’t put her beyond the reach of being asked tough questions about some of the unprecedented actions she’s taking. Isnt that what the media is supposed to do? Or do we just accept whatever she and the other health directors say completely and without question?
Shutting down professional sports is a BIG DEAL. You are talking about billions of dollars. With tens of millions of fans. I understand a decision that comes league wide or nationally etc. that shuts down sports. Such as occurred with MLB and the NBA for large portions of their seasons. But for a single county health director to make a decision which impacts those industries, there should, I believe, be at least some showing of why that activity is adding significantly (or at all) to the increased hospitalizations (which is the number one factor I believe in taking the steps). Or at the very least somebody should ask her a question about it.
Put another way Dr. Cady (and the other County Health directors) is wielding a hell of a lot of power. And generally the media doesn’t have much problem questioning the decisions by those who wield significant power. In this case, however, they are strangely silent.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - magnus - 11-29-2020
(11-29-2020, 10:07 PM)Goose Wrote:Does it make it more palatable for Stanford to play out of town with the knowledge that fall quarter is over and winter quarter doesn't start until Jan?(11-29-2020, 09:57 PM)needle Wrote: With respect to sports this fall, I think Stanford has done what it thinks is best for students participating. I think it would be wise at this time to do what is best for the community-at-large and fully abide by the county order.I hope you are wrong, but I am not going to put any money on that outcome.
However, I fully expect that Stanford football will play its two announced games against Pac-12 opponents and that both basketball teams will continue playing games for the next two weeks. Don't expect anything close to a defiant tone from what will surely be carefully worded statements of concern from Stanford leaders, but the actions will speak volumes...
Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I doubt it. Ultimately, Stanford athletics does not want to take up a leadership position on this issue. The precedent has been set elsewhere that big-time college athletics doesn't abide by the spirit of state health orders, much less county orders.
lex24 - lex24 - 11-30-2020
(11-29-2020, 11:50 PM)magnus Wrote:(11-29-2020, 10:07 PM)Goose Wrote:Does it make it more palatable for Stanford to play out of town with the knowledge that fall quarter is over and winter quarter doesn't start until Jan?(11-29-2020, 09:57 PM)needle Wrote: With respect to sports this fall, I think Stanford has done what it thinks is best for students participating. I think it would be wise at this time to do what is best for the community-at-large and fully abide by the county order.I hope you are wrong, but I am not going to put any money on that outcome.
However, I fully expect that Stanford football will play its two announced games against Pac-12 opponents and that both basketball teams will continue playing games for the next two weeks. Don't expect anything close to a defiant tone from what will surely be carefully worded statements of concern from Stanford leaders, but the actions will speak volumes...
Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I doubt it. Ultimately, Stanford athletics does not want to take up a leadership position on this issue. The precedent has been set elsewhere that big-time college athletics doesn't abide by the spirit of state health orders, much less county orders.
Aren’t all classes virtual? If so, why does it matter where the students are located - be they athletes or not.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - OutsiderFan - 11-30-2020
Watch this if you want to see your questions answered, and see Santa Clara County leaders be asked them by press:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yji0ySBtouI
RE: lex24 - Goose - 11-30-2020
(11-30-2020, 08:35 AM)lex24 Wrote:In some sense, since the quarter is over and all classes are virtual having the team members go someplace together to play and practice is justifiable. You could say that they are less likely to get and spread COVID-19 staying together, traveling and living as a team, and getting regularly tested than they would individually flying home. Possibly true.(11-29-2020, 11:50 PM)magnus Wrote:(11-29-2020, 10:07 PM)Goose Wrote:Does it make it more palatable for Stanford to play out of town with the knowledge that fall quarter is over and winter quarter doesn't start until Jan?(11-29-2020, 09:57 PM)needle Wrote: With respect to sports this fall, I think Stanford has done what it thinks is best for students participating. I think it would be wise at this time to do what is best for the community-at-large and fully abide by the county order.I hope you are wrong, but I am not going to put any money on that outcome.
However, I fully expect that Stanford football will play its two announced games against Pac-12 opponents and that both basketball teams will continue playing games for the next two weeks. Don't expect anything close to a defiant tone from what will surely be carefully worded statements of concern from Stanford leaders, but the actions will speak volumes...
Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I doubt it. Ultimately, Stanford athletics does not want to take up a leadership position on this issue. The precedent has been set elsewhere that big-time college athletics doesn't abide by the spirit of state health orders, much less county orders.
Aren’t all classes virtual? If so, why does it matter where the students are located - be they athletes or not.
The problem is that the name on the front of the jersey is Stanford and Stanford is in Santa Clara County. Santa Clara County is suffering great financial and personal loss and hardship due to regulations necessary to halt the spread of COVID-19. Sending a team representing Stanford out of the county in order to escape the effects of the disease on SCC is sending the message to the world that Standford, or at least parts of it, is exempt from the pain. I don't think that is a message we want to send.
I fully understand the argument that it "does no one any good and only harms the athletes" to cancel the rest of the season. In other words they can in fact avoid the pain, or most of it. Canceling the rest of the season does however send the message "We are all in this together. Nobody gets a free pass." I think that message does a lot of good and is really needed in an area where lots of people can and do "cheat" to avoid the pain. It is a symbol of solidarity. So, this is what I think they should do. Easy for me to say, as it affects me much less than it does the team. I can understand why they would chose another path, and I can understand why the University would chose another path. I just hope they do not do so.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - MVCard - 11-30-2020
County leaders need to appreciate that they need to manage group psychology in addition to reacting to the scientific data. Sports keep people busy, either as fans or as participants. When they're busy with sports, they are NOT engaging in other riskier behaviors. A family that normally sees friends along an easily-distanced soccer sideline, whose kids see each other on the field, will resort to clandestine gatherings and playdates in order to fill the void. They might travel to where they can play, which adds its own risks. Fans who can't watch their favorite team on TV will figure out something else to do, as sorry, we're all done with Tiger King at this point. So why not give us our sports, as a means of keeping us away from more risky behaviors? The strategy of incremental lockdowns is missing an opportunity to positively promote lower-risk behaviors... and I'd argue that many types of sports at the pro, college, and youth levels fall into that category.
We had a great time watching Big Game on Friday on TV. Just as exciting as other Big Games on TV, if not more. Pro football has been fun to watch too, even in empty stadiums. Thousands of kids are shut out of youth sport competition right now - youth soccer being the big one that I, frankly, don't understand as it seems like a pretty easy sport to run at a low risk level. Think these lockdowns need more "stop doing this, but START doing this" attitude, instead of "suck it up at home again"... else people are just going to ignore the orders and test their enforceability, which seems to be the path we're on right now (and, arguably, is why we're in a surge now to begin with).
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - chrisk - 11-30-2020
(11-30-2020, 12:09 PM)MVCard Wrote: County leaders need to appreciate that they need to manage group psychology in addition to reacting to the scientific data. Sports keep people busy, either as fans or as participants. When they're busy with sports, they are NOT engaging in other riskier behaviors. A family that normally sees friends along an easily-distanced soccer sideline, whose kids see each other on the field, will resort to clandestine gatherings and playdates in order to fill the void. They might travel to where they can play, which adds its own risks. Fans who can't watch their favorite team on TV will figure out something else to do, as sorry, we're all done with Tiger King at this point. So why not give us our sports, as a means of keeping us away from more risky behaviors? The strategy of incremental lockdowns is missing an opportunity to positively promote lower-risk behaviors... and I'd argue that many types of sports at the pro, college, and youth levels fall into that category.
We had a great time watching Big Game on Friday on TV. Just as exciting as other Big Games on TV, if not more. Pro football has been fun to watch too, even in empty stadiums. Thousands of kids are shut out of youth sport competition right now - youth soccer being the big one that I, frankly, don't understand as it seems like a pretty easy sport to run at a low risk level. Think these lockdowns need more "stop doing this, but START doing this" attitude, instead of "suck it up at home again"... else people are just going to ignore the orders and test their enforceability, which seems to be the path we're on right now (and, arguably, is why we're in a surge now to begin with).
People CAN suck it up. They just haven’t been scared enough yet. Be sure that if people don’t take this more seriously, the next steps will be harsher and the choice to NOT suck it up will be much more treacherous.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - BostonCard - 11-30-2020
I'm sympathetic to many of the arguments, especially that kids youth activities, conducted outdoors can probably be conducted safely; I generally agree with your assessment about kids soccer. I'm not as sure about televised sports events, because that is not an activity that people like to do alone. That's not to say it is intrinsically risky, or that it can't be done safely, but we shouldn't just assume that watching sports on television will be consistently done in a socially distanced way.
BC
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - magnus - 11-30-2020
There's multiple angles to the psychology argument.
One could argue that the more normal things appear (sports, bars, restaurants, school), the less observant the average person will be in fighting/avoiding this virus.
Unfortunately, there's no black and/or white answer. Lots of gray, which makes no one happy.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - BostonCard - 11-30-2020
(11-30-2020, 01:18 PM)magnus Wrote: Unfortunately, there's no black and/or white answer. Lots of gray, which makes no one happy.
Don't you know this is a message board? Shades of gray are not allowed on internet message boards. Hot takes are required to be in black and white. (yes, I'm being sarcastic, since that is also hard on an internet message board).
BC
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - teejers1 - 11-30-2020
(11-30-2020, 01:18 PM)magnus Wrote: There's multiple angles to the psychology argument.
One could argue that the more normal things appear (sports, bars, restaurants, school), the less observant the average person will be in fighting/avoiding this virus.
Unfortunately, there's no black and/or white answer. Lots of gray, which makes no one happy.
Agree 100%.
Separately, I believe the notion that "we're all in this together" is a complete crock. In an ideal world, maybe (the uber-rich will always find ways to separate). But more mundanely, the notion that Dr. Cody (or anyone else whose job is not threatened by pandemic) is "in this" the same way as laid off workers are who need government assistance to pay the food bill is just ridiculous. It's patronizing, condescending, and false.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - BostonCard - 11-30-2020
We can keep debating whether Cody and other county health departments are overstepping her bounds, but it is worth noting that Newsome is considering issuing a new stay at home order.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1333523703049703427?s=20[/tweet]
It is very difficult to grasp how quickly things can spiral out of control, which is further complicated by the fact that there is really a delay between exposure and positive test (and a further delay to hospitalization or death). As a consequence, it is easy to look out the window now and say things in Santa Clara (or San Mateo county, where I live) don't seem too bad, why are we cancelling contact sports, when perhaps the question ought to be "given how things will be in a couple weeks, why is this even a point of discussion"?
BC
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - dabigv13 - 11-30-2020
SoCal continues a very steep rise. As I predicted last week, we are just about to reach our highest ICU utilization rate since the start of the pandemic. No sign of slowing, and the Thanksgiving patients and the people they infect have not begun to factor into this at all.
But Dr. Cody and the public health officials are the villains in this story! What a dumb country.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - BostonCard - 11-30-2020
Not just southern california, we are seeing hospitals nationwide running out of beds.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/health/covid-hospitals-overload.html
Quote:In the spring, the pandemic was concentrated mainly in hard-hit regions like New York, which offered lessons to hospitals in other states anticipating the spread of the coronavirus. Despite months of planning, though, many of the nation’s hospital systems are now slammed with a staggering swell of patients, no available beds and widening shortages of nurses and doctors. On any single day, some hospitals have had to turn away transfer requests for patients needing urgent care or incoming emergencies.
BC
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - DocSavage87 - 11-30-2020
I was debating a cardiologist in Kentucky about the potential impact of the pandemic back in March/April and he simply couldn't get the exponential increase. That baffled me back then. It truly astounds me now, because we've lived through the last six months and now have over a quarter million dead. But those people who were saying it was the flu now point to percentage survival rates and forgot they said it'd be 10,000 dead total, not 275,000 dead before Dec. Between the election fraud cult and the COVID-19 ignorance continued to be shown by a fair % of the population, I'm yet another disillusioned American about our democracy. Not that I think there was election fraud -- I just think democracy doesn't work when such a large % of the population is so stupid, and the stupidity can be amplified by an electoral college.
(11-30-2020, 03:01 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: SoCal continues a very steep rise. As I predicted last week, we are just about to reach our highest ICU utilization rate since the start of the pandemic. No sign of slowing, and the Thanksgiving patients and the people they infect have not begun to factor into this at all.
But Dr. Cody and the public health officials are the villains in this story! What a dumb country.
These two tweets, now deleted, are a graphic demonstration of how dumb this country can be:
![[Image: EoEBKh-UwAAvG36?format=jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoEBKh-UwAAvG36?format=jpg)
I guess she must belong to a faith that must be practiced with others and not from her home. Must not have considered her husband's pre-existing condition either.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - 82 Card - 11-30-2020
(11-30-2020, 05:15 PM)DocSavage87 Wrote: These two tweets, now deleted, are a graphic demonstration of how dumb this country can be:
I guess she must belong to a faith that must be practiced with others and not from her home. Must not have considered her husband's pre-existing condition either.
I do wonder what religion it must be. Most Christians would be familiar with Matthew 18:20: "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." No need to risk her or hubbies life. For that matter, there's the well known command to love thy neighbor. Insisting on spreading the virus does not show much love for neighbors.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - teejers1 - 11-30-2020
(11-30-2020, 05:15 PM)DocSavage87 Wrote: I was debating a cardiologist in Kentucky about the potential impact of the pandemic back in March/April and he simply couldn't get the exponential increase. That baffled me back then. It truly astounds me now, because we've lived through the last six months and now have over a quarter million dead. But those people who were saying it was the flu now point to percentage survival rates and forgot they said it'd be 10,000 dead total, not 275,000 dead before Dec. Between the election fraud cult and the COVID-19 ignorance continued to be shown by a fair % of the population, I'm yet another disillusioned American about our democracy. Not that I think there was election fraud -- I just think democracy doesn't work when such a large % of the population is so stupid, and the stupidity can be amplified by an electoral college.
(11-30-2020, 03:01 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: SoCal continues a very steep rise. As I predicted last week, we are just about to reach our highest ICU utilization rate since the start of the pandemic. No sign of slowing, and the Thanksgiving patients and the people they infect have not begun to factor into this at all.
But Dr. Cody and the public health officials are the villains in this story! What a dumb country.
These two tweets, now deleted, are a graphic demonstration of how dumb this country can be:
I guess she must belong to a faith that must be practiced with others and not from her home. Must not have considered her husband's pre-existing condition either.
Well, in your disillusionment, you can at least revel in the glory that this woman is stupid and she has Covid. Nicely done.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - DocSavage87 - 11-30-2020
(11-30-2020, 06:27 PM)82 Card Wrote:(11-30-2020, 05:15 PM)DocSavage87 Wrote: These two tweets, now deleted, are a graphic demonstration of how dumb this country can be:
I guess she must belong to a faith that must be practiced with others and not from her home. Must not have considered her husband's pre-existing condition either.
I do wonder what religion it must be. Most Christians would be familiar with Matthew 18:20: "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." No need to risk her or hubbies life. For that matter, there's the well known command to love thy neighbor. Insisting on spreading the virus does not show much love for neighbors.
It's truly sad, and stories like this are everywhere. On one hand, I thought from her first tweet she was one of those who believed COVID-19 wasn't a big deal. I heard the same argument from my brother (a Trump supporter) who said he wasn't going to live scared, and then actually went to visit my elderly mother days after he had symptoms. But the second tweet from the woman indicates she realizes it's dangerous at least for a subset of the population. So I think she just didn't believe the virus was around or was a hoax. Whatever the case, this is going to be a very bad winter for the country and I don't see a way around it given people's attitudes.
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - BostonCard - 11-30-2020
The woman is not stupid, nor do I see a contradiction in her posts. I don't happen to be particularly religious, but I understand that the world has people for whom attending mass is much more important to me. And there is nothing wrong with asking for prayers if one gets sick, even allowing for some behavior that placed one at risk.
That being said, the tone of the first post isn't "look, I understand that COVID-19 is serious, but for me, mass is more important, and I trust in God's plan"; it was deliberately provocative and confrontational of anyone who would suggest that attending mass might not be the wisest idea, not just for the danger she puts herself in, but for the danger she places others. I hope she recovers and I hope that she can develop a bit of humility towards the pandemic and respect for the virus.
More broadly, I wish that people wouldn't react towards restrictions by assuming that those imposing them or advocating for them share antipathy towards those activities or that this is some sort of "punishment" for people not behaving, and certainly that people are not reveling in other's misfortunes. I speak for myself only, but I don't think any of us who have defended restrictions have done so out of some desire to see other's punished, or that we look at the numbers every day cackling like evil geniuses saying "goooood, my plan to impose control is fully in place". We advocate restrictions now because we look at the numbers and see that if the current trajectory continues, more onerous restrictions will be needed.
BC
RE: Uh oh: Santa Clara County tightens restrictions - OutsiderFan - 11-30-2020
So Santa Clara County had 801 new infections and 48 new hospitalizations reported on Nov. 30.
On Saturday when the new restrictions were implemented, the county had 18% hospital capacity. Today it still sits at 18% for both ICU and non-ICU. There are just 383 beds remaining for a county of 2 million people.
If we add 50 hospitalizations a day, we'll be out of beds in less than two weeks. Hopefully the restrictions are heeded and the spread is slowed.