It's bad out there - Printable Version
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RE: It's bad out there - dabigv13 - 12-09-2020
It is certainly not slowing down. We have now repurposed a surgical recovery room as a non COVID ICU, and opened a previously closed ward as another noncovid ICU, because all our normal ICU space is now COVID. The hospital length of stay is much lower now compared to earlier in the pandemic, so I think our management has improved, but the volume of new patients has overwhelmed that still.
We turned this around twice before....needs to happen again soon.
RE: It's bad out there - Genuine Realist - 12-09-2020
(12-09-2020, 09:33 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: It is certainly not slowing down. We have now repurposed a surgical recovery room as a non COVID ICU, and opened a previously closed ward as another noncovid ICU, because all our normal ICU space is now COVID. The hospital length of stay is much lower now compared to earlier in the pandemic, so I think our management has improved, but the volume of new patients has overwhelmed that still.I think the imminence of widely available vaccines is not helpful.
We turned this around twice before....needs to happen again soon.
RE: It's bad out there - Mick - 12-09-2020
(12-08-2020, 02:45 PM)82 Card Wrote:(12-08-2020, 04:22 AM)2006alum Wrote: And I can't believe I'm saying this, but Josh Hawley may be the one of the few In Congress who get it: we need to send more $ to the people, and now. Maybe he and AOC could team up to form an anti-Boomer, anti-Wall Street, under-50 coalition of the willing...
Why anti-Boomer? This Boomer is all for helping out people disproportionately affected or who were already in need before the pandemic. What I don't want to see is a bunch of tax money going to money bags that are doing quite well already.
I give you Governor Newsom, recipient of eight-times-larger-than-originally-reported Paycheck Protection Program funds of about $3 million.
Nearly $3M meant for small businesses amid pandemic went to companies Gov. Gavin Newsom founded, data shows - ABC7 San Francisco (abc7news.com)
RE: It's bad out there - 82 Card - 12-10-2020
(12-09-2020, 10:21 PM)Mick Wrote:If Newsom's interest is in a trust, the trustees have a fiduciary duty to pursue business opportunities that are available. Seems like your problem is with the people making the rules for the program, not Mr. Newsom. He was not the one that mismanaged the PPP program.(12-08-2020, 02:45 PM)82 Card Wrote:(12-08-2020, 04:22 AM)2006alum Wrote: And I can't believe I'm saying this, but Josh Hawley may be the one of the few In Congress who get it: we need to send more $ to the people, and now. Maybe he and AOC could team up to form an anti-Boomer, anti-Wall Street, under-50 coalition of the willing...Why anti-Boomer? This Boomer is all for helping out people disproportionately affected or who were already in need before the pandemic. What I don't want to see is a bunch of tax money going to money bags that are doing quite well already.
I give you Governor Newsom, recipient of eight-times-larger-than-originally-reported Paycheck Protection Program funds of about $3 million.
Nearly $3M meant for small businesses amid pandemic went to companies Gov. Gavin Newsom founded, data shows - ABC7 San Francisco (abc7news.com)
RE: It's bad out there - BostonCard - 12-10-2020
Restaurants in general (including some well-known, well-capitalized ones) seem to have gotten a fair bit of PPP loans:
https://thecounter.org/mcdonalds-taco-bell-wendys-ppp-loans-covid-19/
Quote:The franchisees in our analysis received more than $1 billion total in PPP loans. However, they represent only a fraction of total relief: 255,050 restaurants borrowed a total of $30 billion through the program. Our analysis found that a quarter of the money went to just 1 percent of recipients.
“I feel like the government only really recognized big businesses, big restaurant chains, the franchises,” said Amanda Cohen, a leader of the Independent Restaurant Coalition and owner of Dirt Candy in New York. “That’s who everybody felt like had the voice in Washington and was able to sort of put themselves forward.”
BC
RE: It's bad out there - OutsiderFan - 12-10-2020
I give you Governor Newsom, recipient of eight-times-larger-than-originally-reported Paycheck Protection Program funds of about $3 million.
Nearly $3M meant for small businesses amid pandemic went to companies Gov. Gavin Newsom founded, data shows - ABC7 San Francisco (abc7news.com)
Quote:In 2018, Gov. Newsom placed his ownership interests in the PlumpJack Group into a blind trust. This means he would have no knowledge or role in the company's business decisions made during his time in office.
So it seems Newsom isn't the one to be scrutinized here. It is whoever is running the businesses he has a stake in. Moreover, I don't think the current administration would have allowed that money to go to those companies in question if it knew Newsom had stakes in them. Its pettiness is unmatched in my lifetime, so I believe the limb I am walking out on here is pretty sturdy.
RE: It's bad out there - BostonCard - 12-10-2020
Heard on the radio today: 30,000 new cases in California (15% of the total in the country), about half of them in LA county. ICU capacity in southern California is down to 8%, limited by staffing. They are trying to get traveling nurses in, which works when you have a local surge, but right now the whole country is trying to increase their staffing so there isn't a pool of travelers available. It's worse in the central valley; ICU capacity is <5%.
As the subject heading notes, it's bad out there.
BC
RE: It's bad out there - Goose - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 09:35 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Moreover, I don't think the current administration would have allowed that money to go to those companies in question if it knew Newsom had stakes in them. Its pettiness is unmatched in my lifetime, so I believe the limb I am walking out on here is pretty sturdy.Probably true, but the current administration's incompetence is also pretty much unmatched, so the odds of them knowing are low.
RE: It's bad out there - M T - 12-11-2020
(12-10-2020, 10:01 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Heard on the radio today: 30,000 new cases in California (15% of the total in the country), about half of them in LA county. ICU capacity in southern California is down to 8%, limited by staffing. ... It's worse in the central valley; ICU capacity is <5%.
As the subject heading notes, it's bad out there.
BC
At this point, it is inevitable that the number of "staffed ICU beds" will soon be less than occupied ICU beds for some, and then more, California (and elsewhere) hospitals. (That's not to say that patients will be in beds without staff, only that the staff have less time per bed.) That's when care starts falling off dramatically. The more the shortfall of staff, the worse the outcomes. (I believe current estimates are for that situation to last through all or most of January in California.)
I expect that some ICU patients need more attention than others. Specifically, those on ventilators will need more care? I haven't been tracking ventilator usage but last I looked we still had many available. But can they be used without specialists to monitor them?
Did we make a lot of progress in full face mask ventilation as an alternative? I know there was work on that, but I don't know if there are enough such masks and that the results warranted their use.
This is why I wish that the FDA board had recommended to do best effort to get the 2nd doses in 21 days, but to prioritize getting first doses to the people most likely to go to the hospitals if they get COVID.
RE: It's bad out there - teejers1 - 12-11-2020
(12-10-2020, 10:01 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Heard on the radio today: 30,000 new cases in California (15% of the total in the country), about half of them in LA county. ICU capacity in southern California is down to 8%, limited by staffing. They are trying to get traveling nurses in, which works when you have a local surge, but right now the whole country is trying to increase their staffing so there isn't a pool of travelers available. It's worse in the central valley; ICU capacity is <5%.
As the subject heading notes, it's bad out there.
BC
So, now is Newsom doing a bad job as governor on the pandemic?
Look, it's all about personal responsibility and being smart - and that often means following the guidelines/rules. There is obviously some chunk of these spikes attributable to folks saying "eff it," fatigue from sequestering, or what have you. Another chunk is just going to happen in higher density areas where people don't have luxury to work from home.
The finger-pointing and blame game is almost as tiring as the virus itself. And let me be the first to say that I expect a lot of hiccups in vaccine rollout, too, and I don't really care who is to blame for hiccup A vs. hiccup B. Just get better and get on with it!
RE: It's bad out there - BostonCard - 12-11-2020
(12-11-2020, 01:06 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-10-2020, 10:01 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Heard on the radio today: 30,000 new cases in California (15% of the total in the country), about half of them in LA county. ICU capacity in southern California is down to 8%, limited by staffing. They are trying to get traveling nurses in, which works when you have a local surge, but right now the whole country is trying to increase their staffing so there isn't a pool of travelers available. It's worse in the central valley; ICU capacity is <5%.
As the subject heading notes, it's bad out there.
BC
So, now is Newsom doing a bad job as governor on the pandemic?
Please point to the sentence in my post where I assign blame to anyone. As it happens, I do think that Newsom lost the plot, not least of which was by the "do as I say, not as I do" stunt at the French Laundry. But that was not the point of my post, the entirety of which consisted of posting the facts about the severity of the pandemic, and none of which consisted of finding someone to blame (or even suggesting that there needed to be someone to blame).
I think those of us who are unaffected by the pandemic are a bit oblivious of just how bad things have gotten and how quickly it has happened. Like, my son the other day was saying he didn't know anyone who had COVID. And it is true that those of us who live in a suburban neighborhood, can work from home (or go to school from home) are capable of going through our days without seeing the hospitals filling up and the deaths piling up (now at record levels). That's what I wanted to bring attention to in the post and in the whole thread. I know you (and others) are sick of hearing it, but I think it's important. Let's make decisions with an accurate understanding of the situation. The reason I respect Dr. Morrow's decision for San Mateo county (where I live), is because he gave adequate consideration to its severity; he just came to a different conclusion on the relative merits of enforcing restrictions versus counting on individuals to do the right thing. But let's not ignore how bad it is out there.
BC
RE: It's bad out there - teejers1 - 12-11-2020
(12-11-2020, 03:46 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(12-11-2020, 01:06 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-10-2020, 10:01 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Heard on the radio today: 30,000 new cases in California (15% of the total in the country), about half of them in LA county. ICU capacity in southern California is down to 8%, limited by staffing. They are trying to get traveling nurses in, which works when you have a local surge, but right now the whole country is trying to increase their staffing so there isn't a pool of travelers available. It's worse in the central valley; ICU capacity is <5%.
As the subject heading notes, it's bad out there.
BC
So, now is Newsom doing a bad job as governor on the pandemic?
Please point to the sentence in my post where I assign blame to anyone. As it happens, I do think that Newsom lost the plot, not least of which was by the "do as I say, not as I do" stunt at the French Laundry. But that was not the point of my post, the entirety of which consisted of posting the facts about the severity of the pandemic, and none of which consisted of finding someone to blame (or even suggesting that there needed to be someone to blame).
I think those of us who are unaffected by the pandemic are a bit oblivious of just how bad things have gotten and how quickly it has happened. Like, my son the other day was saying he didn't know anyone who had COVID. And it is true that those of us who live in a suburban neighborhood, can work from home (or go to school from home) are capable of going through our days without seeing the hospitals filling up and the deaths piling up (now at record levels). That's what I wanted to bring attention to in the post and in the whole thread. I know you (and others) are sick of hearing it, but I think it's important. Let's make decisions with an accurate understanding of the situation. The reason I respect Dr. Morrow's decision for San Mateo county (where I live), is because he gave adequate consideration to its severity; he just came to a different conclusion on the relative merits of enforcing restrictions versus counting on individuals to do the right thing. But let's not ignore how bad it is out there.
BC
It was simply a jumping off point to ask the question on this site where Newsom has been repeatedly praised for his handling of the pandemic (outside of the French Laundry bad optics). Now that CA's numbers aren't exemplary, the (rhetorical, in my mind, given my "personal responsibility" outlook) question was low hanging fruit. I didn't say you specifically said he was doing a bad (or good) job.
As for your other point about folks here not appreciating the damage from the pandemic . . . absolutely. That applies both to those getting sick/dying AND those who have been displaced economically (with exception of your brother). And it applies to all kinds of other intangible harm, one of the most notable being EOL and family grieving/memorial services. SiP directives are just brutal in this area.
RE: It's bad out there - M T - 12-11-2020
In the last hour, both my wife's sister & brother have found out they have Covid, 150 miles apart in rural N. California. Both in mid-60s, both with some comorbidity. One case is hospital acquired for a person who was a shut-in until he had to go to the hospital.
Yes, it is bad out there.
RE: It's bad out there - OutsiderFan - 12-11-2020
(12-11-2020, 04:31 PM)M T Wrote: In the last hour, both my wife's sister & brother have found out they have Covid, 150 miles apart in rural N. California. Both in mid-60s, both with some comorbidity. One case is hospital acquired for a person who was a shut-in until he had to go to the hospital.
Yes, it is bad out there.
OK, I was wondering where I would post this, so might as well here.
As most of y'all know, I'm in CA waiting out the virus surge before returning to CT. Don't know when that will be, but the point is I'm not traveling in an effort to stay safe. I go to the farmer's market and Whole Foods weekly, and rarely go anywhere else. Haven't been in a gathering of more than 6 people inside since I don't know, February?
Anyway, last Thursday my Aunt, Uncle, and Cousin came to my mom's place where I am staying, for pizza. We had four at a table and one sat in a chair off the table, so five total. I opened the sliding glass door next to the table, and a set of double doors in the room to increase ventilation.
Yesterday my Aunt sent me a text saying she was going for a Covid test. I figured if she was feeling sick yesterday, 3-5 days after exposure showing symptoms would put her at about Friday getting infected if she has Covid, or maybe Thursday, but that wouldn't be soon enough to have been shedding virus when she was at our house.
Later, my mom tells me she had a 103 fever "over the weekend," which would have meant she absolutely could have been shedding virus at the table a week ago. I feel fine and so does my mom so far. Given my Aunt said she must wait 3-5 days to get her test result, we're all in limbo. I can't even tell you how pissed I would be if I got Covid in my mom's house, when the whole point of me being here is to avoid getting it! Right now I'm hoping my door opening saved us...
RE: It's bad out there - Goose - 12-11-2020
It's bad out there and is going to get worse for a while no matter what. The lag in cases and death ensures it will be so. In about a week (+/-) we will know what effects the SAH has delivered in terms of cases. Hopefully we will see a downward trend. If not, we will require even more mitigation, and we will be in a much worse spot ICU wise. Let's hope that doesn't happen.
RE: It's bad out there - M T - 12-11-2020
FYI, there are links to 3 different sets of trials at
https://www.calhospital.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/ows_mab__playbook_10nov20.pdf
At least one of the trials is looking for people living in the same household as someone who has just gotten a positive result.
RE: It's bad out there - OutsiderFan - 12-11-2020
So L.A. County nearly 14,000 cases on 12/11.
CA over 37,000 new cases on 12/11.
U.S. nearly 250,000 cases on 12/11.
These numbers are going to crush us.
RE: It's bad out there - OutsiderFan - 12-11-2020
(12-11-2020, 08:58 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: So L.A. County nearly 14,000 cases on 12/11.
CA over 37,000 new cases on 12/11.
U.S. nearly 250,000 cases on 12/11.
These numbers are going to crush us.
A note on the L.A. County numbers...
Only 8 countries reported more Covid infections today than L.A. County.
RE: It's bad out there - M T - 12-11-2020
(12-11-2020, 05:16 PM)M T Wrote: FYI, there are links to 3 different sets of trials at
https://www.calhospital.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/ows_mab__playbook_10nov20.pdf
At least one of the trials is looking for people living in the same household as someone who has just gotten a positive result.
The trials I was looking at for one relative requires enrollment from within 3 days of first symptom. So, if you think you've got COVID, don't wait for the test results to get back. Figure out what you want to do and get it ready to go when the results are back. In this case, the positive sample was taken on Friday so enrollment would have to be by Monday.
FYI, the location for the trial that I'm trying to get into is in Modesto, but the MD in charge is (I believe) based in Georgia. I was told that Modesto had a lot of people in that trial, but Stanford only had a handful.
RE: It's bad out there - Goose - 12-11-2020
As bad as things are in LA County case-wise, their ICU situation (4.35 available ICU beds/100K people) is better than both San Mateo(3.77) and Santa Clara(1.81). One wonders if ICU beds is a good metric by itself. If Reff is significantly above 1, as BC has pointed out you will eventually exceed any limit you set. Why wait? Crush the curve now before you hit the stops.