Outside Topic Sports trivia thread 2020-2021 - Printable Version

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RE: The Giants Torture - Phogge - 09-26-2020

Like I’ve said from the beginning they need a lights out closer more than anything. Right now their best reliever is Garcia. Coonrod is a disaster.

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lex24 - lex24 - 09-26-2020

(09-25-2020, 10:02 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(09-25-2020, 09:08 PM)BobK Wrote:  Reds win and for the Giants Flores with a three run HR

And then Kapler does what he has done far too often this season:  just make the idiotic decision (leaving pitcher in who can't find the strike zone).  Walk off 3-run dinger for San Diego in game 2 of double-header.  Seriously, I hope some reporter has the balls to ask him WTF he had Wandy warming up for in the last inning if not to face the lefty hitter who walked it off.  Of course, they won't.

Look, in one sense, the Giants and their paltry 3 hits didn't deserve to win, but it absolutely sucks when the manager just freaking makes the WORST decisions to hamper your team's ability to win.  That's 3 egregious last-inning decisions this year that led to Ls that you can attribute directly to Kapler.

I'm sure he's made lots of good decisions, and most decisions are of the "reasonable minds can differ" variety.  But watching Coonrad scuffle in the last inning (for second night in a row), AND you leave him in to serve up the game-loser.  Effing inexcusable.

P.S.  The Padres starter had nasty stuff.  Hope he is okay for the playoff run for the Padres.  Giants caught a of immense proportions break when he left the game.

He left Coonrod  in cause Garcia’s not an HR threat and Tatis was on deck.  Oops.  I though he just should have left Selmen in for the 9th. But  I haven’t understood how he’s used the pen all year. Very random.  And Phogge he’s had a “lights out” guy to close- Watson (fabulous all year until last night). He just hasn’t used him as a closer.

Coonrod has the best stuff on any of the bullpen guys. Had a couple very impressive outings. Teased. Cause they were Mixed in with a bunch of disasters- he has absolutely no command. Using him to close is folly. Last night he couldn’t throw his fastball for a strike. Turned off game second the ball cleared. Unsure of the pitch he threw. Guessing it was a change up. Right down the middle.

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RE: lex24 - teejers1 - 09-26-2020

(09-26-2020, 07:48 AM)lex24 Wrote:  

(09-25-2020, 10:02 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(09-25-2020, 09:08 PM)BobK Wrote:  Reds win and for the Giants Flores with a three run HR

And then Kapler does what he has done far too often this season:  just make the idiotic decision (leaving pitcher in who can't find the strike zone).  Walk off 3-run dinger for San Diego in game 2 of double-header.  Seriously, I hope some reporter has the balls to ask him WTF he had Wandy warming up for in the last inning if not to face the lefty hitter who walked it off.  Of course, they won't.

Look, in one sense, the Giants and their paltry 3 hits didn't deserve to win, but it absolutely sucks when the manager just freaking makes the WORST decisions to hamper your team's ability to win.  That's 3 egregious last-inning decisions this year that led to Ls that you can attribute directly to Kapler.

I'm sure he's made lots of good decisions, and most decisions are of the "reasonable minds can differ" variety.  But watching Coonrad scuffle in the last inning (for second night in a row), AND you leave him in to serve up the game-loser.  Effing inexcusable.

P.S.  The Padres starter had nasty stuff.  Hope he is okay for the playoff run for the Padres.  Giants caught a of immense proportions break when he left the game.

He left Coonrod  in cause Garcia’s not an HR threat and Tatis was on deck.  Oops.  I though he just should have left Selmen in for the 9th. But  I haven’t understood how he’s used the pen all year. Very random.  And Phogge he’s had a “lights out” guy to close- Watson (fabulous all year until last night). He just hasn’t used him as a closer.

Coonrod has the best stuff on any of the bullpen guys. Had a couple very impressive outings.  Teased. Cause they were Mixed in with a bunch of disasters- he has absolutely no command.  Using him to close is folly.  Last night he couldn’t throw his fastball for a strike.  Turned off game second the  ball cleared. Unsure of the pitch he threw. Guessing it was a change up. Right down the middle.

Yes, a thousand times yes.  That, again, is the most basic of errors (especially when you have a "role-less" bullpen (though I think you leave a guy in who got one out on 5 pitches - 4 of them for strikes - even when you have "roles" for your bully).

Separately, why have Wandy (re)warming up if you're not going to use him against the lefty?  
You've got Tatis and Arenado after that.  You just had to get the lefty out.  

I'm just so frustrated that the season is going to end w/o playoffs because (or likely because) the manager made a handful of really bad decisions, which anyone watching real time would have said were bad decisions.

(And OF, due to tiebreakers, the Giants have to finish with better record than its pursuers.  If they had won the last game, then all they would have needed was to win 1 of last 2 to clinch a spot.  Now, I think they have to win both).

I also agree that 7th place was there for the taking . . .

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RE: The Giants Torture - OutsiderFan - 09-26-2020

I don't think the Phillies or Brewers are winning more than one game between their last two.

The Cardinals don't want to play on Monday. They won't have to if they beat the Brewers today or tomorrow. And the Rays are just flat out better than the Phillies.

The Giants may be able to lose both today and tomorrow and get in if the Phillies and Brewers lose both, which is totally possible.

No matter, the Giants have absolutely zero chance to beat the Dodgers, so I don't understand the hand wringing if they fail to get in as the 8th seed.

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RE: The Giants Torture - qwerty49 - 09-26-2020

Baggarly with a nice article in the Athletic says that Kapler separates his pitchers into 3 buckets -- sprint pitchers, leverage pitchers, and bulk innings pitchers.  Apparently Peralta was considered a "leverage" pitcher and thus although he was warmed up, he wasn't right for that situation.

This whole approach of Kapler's kind of gives me the same feeling some of you oldsters might remember when "new math" took over in the curricula.  We were learning set theory in grade school but some folks still can't balance their checkbooks without a calculator 50 years later.

Kapler basically quoted as saying that Coonrod has the 97+ mph heater and nothing else, and lacks the consistent ability to throw strikes.  Time to send him down to learn a second pitch and some control.  Apparently the walk off HR was a fat changeup over the plate.

But as OF pointed out, why obsess over the right to probably get obliterated by the Dodgers next week?  I'd rather not play the Dodgers than lose to them.

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lex24 - lex24 - 09-26-2020

(09-26-2020, 11:32 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:  Baggarly with a nice article in the Athletic says that Kapler separates his pitchers into 3 buckets -- sprint pitchers, leverage pitchers, and bulk innings pitchers.  Apparently Peralta was considered a "leverage" pitcher and thus although he was warmed up, he wasn't right for that situation.

This whole approach of Kapler's kind of gives me the same feeling some of you oldsters might remember when "new math" took over in the curricula.  We were learning set theory in grade school but some folks still can't balance their checkbooks without a calculator 50 years later.

Kapler basically quoted as saying that Coonrod has the 97+ mph heater and nothing else, and lacks the consistent ability to throw strikes.  Time to send him down to learn a second pitch and some control.  Apparently the walk off HR was a fat changeup over the plate.

But as OF pointed out, why obsess over the right to probably get obliterated by the Dodgers next week?  I'd rather not play the Dodgers than lose to them.

No guts.  No glory. No one would expect them to do anything but get destroyed.  If in this crazy year they somehow beat the Dodgers, I’d be floating on the ceiling giggling like the guy in Mary Poppins.....

And I’m not crazy about the “buckets”. The 9th is always different (unless it’s the 7th in a DH).  Give me a guy that can handle it.  In the biggest game of the season going to Coonrod was a poor move.  He occasionally has a good change up to go with 97-100.  Problem is, he has no command.  Last night the only pitch he can throw for a quasi strike was the change up.  So it makes sense that Garcia was sitting on it.

Baggerly, BTW, is terrific

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(09-26-2020, 10:47 AM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(09-26-2020, 07:48 AM)lex24 Wrote:  

(09-25-2020, 10:02 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(09-25-2020, 09:08 PM)BobK Wrote:  Reds win and for the Giants Flores with a three run HR

And then Kapler does what he has done far too often this season:  just make the idiotic decision (leaving pitcher in who can't find the strike zone).  Walk off 3-run dinger for San Diego in game 2 of double-header.  Seriously, I hope some reporter has the balls to ask him WTF he had Wandy warming up for in the last inning if not to face the lefty hitter who walked it off.  Of course, they won't.

Look, in one sense, the Giants and their paltry 3 hits didn't deserve to win, but it absolutely sucks when the manager just freaking makes the WORST decisions to hamper your team's ability to win.  That's 3 egregious last-inning decisions this year that led to Ls that you can attribute directly to Kapler.

I'm sure he's made lots of good decisions, and most decisions are of the "reasonable minds can differ" variety.  But watching Coonrad scuffle in the last inning (for second night in a row), AND you leave him in to serve up the game-loser.  Effing inexcusable.

P.S.  The Padres starter had nasty stuff.  Hope he is okay for the playoff run for the Padres.  Giants caught a of immense proportions break when he left the game.

He left Coonrod  in cause Garcia’s not an HR threat and Tatis was on deck.  Oops.  I though he just should have left Selmen in for the 9th. But  I haven’t understood how he’s used the pen all year. Very random.  And Phogge he’s had a “lights out” guy to close- Watson (fabulous all year until last night). He just hasn’t used him as a closer.

Coonrod has the best stuff on any of the bullpen guys. Had a couple very impressive outings.  Teased. Cause they were Mixed in with a bunch of disasters- he has absolutely no command.  Using him to close is folly.  Last night he couldn’t throw his fastball for a strike.  Turned off game second the  ball cleared. Unsure of the pitch he threw. Guessing it was a change up. Right down the middle.

Yes, a thousand times yes.  That, again, is the most basic of errors (especially when you have a "role-less" bullpen (though I think you leave a guy in who got one out on 5 pitches - 4 of them for strikes - even when you have "roles" for your bully).

Separately, why have Wandy (re)warming up if you're not going to use him against the lefty?  
You've got Tatis and Arenado after that.  You just had to get the lefty out.  

I'm just so frustrated that the season is going to end w/o playoffs because (or likely because) the manager made a handful of really bad decisions, which anyone watching real time would have said were bad decisions.

(And OF, due to tiebreakers, the Giants have to finish with better record than its pursuers.  If they had won the last game, then all they would have needed was to win 1 of last 2 to clinch a spot.  Now, I think they have to win both).

I also agree that 7th place was there for the taking . . .

Remember, you have to face three.  There was only one out.  Arenado is out. Maybe can PH.  I think it was Tatis then Grishem, another lefty.  Not suggesting he was right leaving Coonrod in.  Irony is, he should have walked Garcia.  The strikes he got were gifts.

EDIT: I’m all screwed up. It was Grisham not Garcia. And of course Teejers threw me with Arenado. He meant Machado. Tatis and Machado were next two. I suspect Kapler din5 want a lefty facing them.

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RE: The Giants Torture - BobK - 09-26-2020

https://www.mercurynews.com/why-the-giants-used-a-pitcher-with-an-8-16-era-in-their-biggest-inning-in-four-years

Maybe someone can translate Kapler’s comments .

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lex24 - lex24 - 09-26-2020

(09-26-2020, 12:17 PM)BobK Wrote:  https://www.mercurynews.com/why-the-giants-used-a-pitcher-with-an-8-16-era-in-their-biggest-inning-in-four-years

Maybe someone can translate Kapler’s comments .

LOL.  Can’t pull up the article.  But he’s often a guy that uses a lot of words to say nothing.

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(09-26-2020, 11:45 AM)lex24 Wrote:  

(09-26-2020, 11:32 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:  Baggarly with a nice article in the Athletic says that Kapler separates his pitchers into 3 buckets -- sprint pitchers, leverage pitchers, and bulk innings pitchers.  Apparently Peralta was considered a "leverage" pitcher and thus although he was warmed up, he wasn't right for that situation.

This whole approach of Kapler's kind of gives me the same feeling some of you oldsters might remember when "new math" took over in the curricula.  We were learning set theory in grade school but some folks still can't balance their checkbooks without a calculator 50 years later.

Kapler basically quoted as saying that Coonrod has the 97+ mph heater and nothing else, and lacks the consistent ability to throw strikes.  Time to send him down to learn a second pitch and some control.  Apparently the walk off HR was a fat changeup over the plate.

But as OF pointed out, why obsess over the right to probably get obliterated by the Dodgers next week?  I'd rather not play the Dodgers than lose to them.

No guts.  No glory. No one would expect them to do anything but get destroyed.  If in this crazy year they somehow beat the Dodgers, I’d be floating on the ceiling giggling like the guy in Mary Poppins.....

And I’m not crazy about the “buckets”. The 9th is always different (unless it’s the 7th in a DH).  Give me a guy that can handle it.  In the biggest game of the season going to Coonrod was a poor move.  He occasionally has a good change up to go with 97-100.  Problem is, he has no command.  Last night the only pitch he can throw for a quasi strike was the change up.  So it makes sense that Garcia was sitting on it.

Baggerly, BTW, is terrific

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(09-26-2020, 10:47 AM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(09-26-2020, 07:48 AM)lex24 Wrote:  

(09-25-2020, 10:02 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(09-25-2020, 09:08 PM)BobK Wrote:  Reds win and for the Giants Flores with a three run HR

And then Kapler does what he has done far too often this season:  just make the idiotic decision (leaving pitcher in who can't find the strike zone).  Walk off 3-run dinger for San Diego in game 2 of double-header.  Seriously, I hope some reporter has the balls to ask him WTF he had Wandy warming up for in the last inning if not to face the lefty hitter who walked it off.  Of course, they won't.

Look, in one sense, the Giants and their paltry 3 hits didn't deserve to win, but it absolutely sucks when the manager just freaking makes the WORST decisions to hamper your team's ability to win.  That's 3 egregious last-inning decisions this year that led to Ls that you can attribute directly to Kapler.

I'm sure he's made lots of good decisions, and most decisions are of the "reasonable minds can differ" variety.  But watching Coonrad scuffle in the last inning (for second night in a row), AND you leave him in to serve up the game-loser.  Effing inexcusable.

P.S.  The Padres starter had nasty stuff.  Hope he is okay for the playoff run for the Padres.  Giants caught a of immense proportions break when he left the game.

He left Coonrod  in cause Garcia’s not an HR threat and Tatis was on deck.  Oops.  I though he just should have left Selmen in for the 9th. But  I haven’t understood how he’s used the pen all year. Very random.  And Phogge he’s had a “lights out” guy to close- Watson (fabulous all year until last night). He just hasn’t used him as a closer.

Coonrod has the best stuff on any of the bullpen guys. Had a couple very impressive outings.  Teased. Cause they were Mixed in with a bunch of disasters- he has absolutely no command.  Using him to close is folly.  Last night he couldn’t throw his fastball for a strike.  Turned off game second the  ball cleared. Unsure of the pitch he threw. Guessing it was a change up. Right down the middle.

Yes, a thousand times yes.  That, again, is the most basic of errors (especially when you have a "role-less" bullpen (though I think you leave a guy in who got one out on 5 pitches - 4 of them for strikes - even when you have "roles" for your bully).

Separately, why have Wandy (re)warming up if you're not going to use him against the lefty?  
You've got Tatis and Arenado after that.  You just had to get the lefty out.  

I'm just so frustrated that the season is going to end w/o playoffs because (or likely because) the manager made a handful of really bad decisions, which anyone watching real time would have said were bad decisions.

(And OF, due to tiebreakers, the Giants have to finish with better record than its pursuers.  If they had won the last game, then all they would have needed was to win 1 of last 2 to clinch a spot.  Now, I think they have to win both).

I also agree that 7th place was there for the taking . . .

Remember, you have to face three.  There was only one out.  Arenado is out. Maybe can PH.  I think it was Tatis then Grishem, another lefty.  Not suggesting he was right leaving Coonrod in.  Irony is, he should have walked Garcia.  The strikes he got were gifts.

EDIT:  I’m all screwed up.  It was Grisham not Garcia.  And of course Teejers threw me with Arenado.  He meant Machado.  Tatis and Machado  were next two.  I suspect Kapler din5 want a lefty facing them. EDIT: wrong again. It was Tatis and then a lefty Cronenworth....

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RE: The Giants Torture - BobK - 09-26-2020

Goodness you guys. Machado was taken out for a pinch runner in his previous at bat. He was not coming up.

Arrrgh

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lex24 - lex24 - 09-26-2020

(09-26-2020, 01:01 PM)BobK Wrote:  Goodness you guys.  Machado was taken out for a pinch runner in his previous at bat.  He was not coming up.

Arrrgh

Yeah.  Still suffering from shock.....

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RE: The Giants Torture - Phogge - 09-26-2020

DFA the Domer receiver.

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RE: The Giants Torture - BostonCard - 09-26-2020

Milwaukee won, and the Giants are down 3-0.  If that holds, both teams will be 29-30 with the Brewers holding the tiebreaker.

BC

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lex24 - lex24 - 09-26-2020

(09-26-2020, 07:57 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  Milwaukee won, and the Giants are down 3-0.  If that holds, both teams will be 29-30 with the Brewers holding the tiebreaker.

BC

You can’t blow two games in last week of season when you are in chase for playoffs  and expect to get in.  Not eliminated, but hanging by a thread. I think the Giants are 3-12 against Pads and A’s.

Not whining (and I don’t know if it makes a difference) but I don’t get why your record within division is first tie breaker.  They don’t play each other.  Seems to me a more fair tiebreaker is opponents winning percentage.  

I feel a bit for Coonrod.  He may have pushed himself out of the organization.  The loss was bad.  But not speaking to press after was in some ways worse.  Take your medicine and bounce back.  He may be gone.

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RE: The Giants Torture - Phogge - 09-27-2020

Coonrod was put on the IL. Hey Gabe we all know why.

In terms of not getting scored upon the best pitcher is Garcia. He should be closing not some sub committee of the staff. I bet Kapler’s digs are spotless, no dust in the corner and all the coconut oil jars are aligned in order of expiration dates in his pantry. Also almost certain that he suffers from constipation.

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RE: The Giants Torture - OutsiderFan - 09-27-2020

For everyone bellyaching about Kapler's bullpen management...

The Phillies, who Kapler managed before the Giants - and whom he could finish above in the standings today, with an inferior roster by most measures - had a 7.00+ season ERA going into the 9th inning of their game at Tampa Bay last night.

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RE: The Giants Torture - Phogge - 09-27-2020

Doesn’t matter OF.

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lex24 - lex24 - 09-27-2020

(09-27-2020, 05:31 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  For everyone bellyaching about Kapler's bullpen management...

The Phillies, who Kapler managed before the Giants - and whom he could finish above in the standings today, with an inferior roster by most measures - had a 7.00+ season ERA going into the 9th inning of their game at Tampa Bay last night.

Why is that relevant.  Kapler obviously did many things right.  They did significantly better than predicted.  He deserves credit for that. But his bullpen management was awful. 

I also question if this was close to sustainable for 162.  Probably not.  

Biggest plus was offense.  But they had some breaks.  Missing the cold nights of April May and June being one of them.

So, overall Kapler outperformed my expectations.  But he still has no idea how to use a pen.  

Organizationally they have to figure out a way to get starters that can eat some innings.  Bullpen is shot.  And it’s only been 60.  I bet the Giants didn’t have 5 games where the starter got through 7. Maybe about 10 where they got through 6. That needs to change going forward. Tough charge.  They don’t have the arms right now.

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RE: The Giants Torture - qwerty49 - 09-27-2020

How many games did Yaz miss recently?  That might have made a difference.

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RE: The Giants Torture - Mick - 09-28-2020

Coonrod is Hunter Strickland revisited.  Our family went to the Giants game on June 18, 2018 when Strickland blew a save.  Giants had a 4-2 lead, Strickland came in.  I remember we had a great seats, and I stood up and said "time to go."  The four of us filed out, and got back to our car just as Strickland gave up the third of his three runs in 2/3 of an inning.

That's Coonrod.  Big arm, no control, ten cent head.

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OT. Baseball in 2020 - lex24 - 09-30-2020

The Oakland A’s are a very good baseball team. They are also a poster child for today’s game.  They walk, hit HRs and strikeout. Here are the batting averages for their top players:

Kemp .247
Canha .246
Grossman .241
Chapman 232
Pinder 232
Piscotty.226
Semien 223
Murphy223
Laureano 213
Davis 200
Olson 195

They hit .225 as a team. Course, that wasn’t the worst of the playoff teams. Milwaukee hit .223. Cincy .212. That’s right Two Hundred and Twelve.

4 playoff teams hit over .250- Atlanta .265. Sox 261. Dodgers 256. Toronto 255.

This is what happens when you devalue batting average and turn the game into one in which the only thing that matters is how many times you can hit the ball over the fence. The game has suffered I think tremendously as a result. But if players are only going to value homeruns – that’s what will shoot for because that’s where the money is. To an extent it’s where it’s always been but you still could make a pretty good living in major league baseball simply by being a good hitter. And I mean hitter not walker.

Another thing that I think is killing batting average and hurting the game is shifts . I would make them illegal were I commissioner. At the very least you have to have four infielders on the skin. I absolutely hate it when a left-handed hitter hits a one hopper and is thrown out by some guy positioning like a rover in slow pitch softball Further, if I’m teaching a kid to hit right now he sitting right handed. They don’t have that issue. You’re not gonna get thrown out by the short stop playing shallow leftfield

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