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RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - JohnR34231 - 02-21-2021

(02-20-2021, 05:10 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  
(02-20-2021, 04:52 PM)BobK Wrote:  Gee hope we can make the NCAAs next season.  That was poor. 
Up three seconds left you foul.  Coaching 101

I hope so too, but I have very little confidence that we will, unless Da Silva, Davis, and Williams surprise by coming back, and Ingram lives up to the hype.  Unfortunately, history leads me to believe that those guys are gone and Ingram will not take the Pac-12 by storm. We will be lucky to be a .500 team in conference next year.

Ultimately, I don't think Haase is any better than Dawkins was, and while he is a better recruiter, he may be getting less out of his talent than Dawkins did.

BC

Yeah, and with the football team probably not going to be anything special 2021-2022 is shaping up to be a pretty dismal year, at least for those of us whose primary interest is football and basketball. At least women's b-ball should still be excellent.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - winflop - 02-21-2021

What an awful performance, both on the court and on the sideline. I think it was more on the court though.
- It's not the coaches' fault that the team shot 50% from the free throw line
- It's (mostly) not the coaches' fault that they had 21 turnovers (I think 18 in regulation), although this is somewhat up for debate because it's been a problem for at least 3 years
- It is the coaches' fault for not calling a timeout when WSU went to a trap on the final play of regulation (or maybe one of the OTs?) and they were clearly unprepared. They had one left.

Haase is a better recruiter than Dawkins, but just like Dawkins he can't seem to develop that talent into a cohesive unit. I've heard multiple commentators this year talk about how talented and deep this team is. Well the results certainly indicate something else, even if they make the tournament. It's gonna be a tough road to that now. Two tough opponents in the last three games and then the conference tournament. Depending on how the regular season ends, they may need to make the finals to get a bid.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - Farm93 - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 05:44 AM)winflop Wrote:  What an awful performance, both on the court and on the sideline. I think it was more on the court though.
- It's not the coaches' fault that the team shot 50% from the free throw line
- It's (mostly) not the coaches' fault that they had 21 turnovers (I think 18 in regulation), although this is somewhat up for debate because it's been a problem for at least 3 years
- It is the coaches' fault for not calling a timeout when WSU went to a trap on the final play of regulation (or maybe one of the OTs?) and they were clearly unprepared. They had one left.

Haase is a better recruiter than Dawkins, but just like Dawkins he can't seem to develop that talent into a cohesive unit. I've heard multiple commentators this year talk about how talented and deep this team is. Well the results certainly indicate something else, even if they make the tournament. It's gonna be a tough road to that now. Two tough opponents in the last three games and then the conference tournament. Depending on how the regular season ends, they may need to make the finals to get a bid.
Many of the turnovers are a function of the offense.   The passes Stanford attempts are sometimes very hard to accept.   I think in most games there are 5 or 6 passes that create really easy layups, but there are usually 10-12 passes that appear very reckless.   

It is possible the current team is the most talented at Stanford in the last 15 years.   What would that imply about this season? 
Perhaps the record and the struggles closing out games are a function of the quirks of the COVID-19 challenges, or maybe a function of the coaching.

For 2020-2021 I can put a good chunk on COVID-19 challenges, but we've been here before with the team limping and stumbling more and more often at the end of games and at the end of a season.

Haase might have been a good option to get Stanford from awful to respectable, but might not be able to coach talent Stanford can typically recruit from respectable to a top 25 level.  Maybe 2021-2022 can be that breakthrough season, but I fear even without COVID-19 the multi-year pattern of weak finishes will remain.

Under Haase, I feel like I watch the wins and tournament expectations fade away as we approach mid-March with many noting that NEXT season will be the one.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - burger - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 08:01 AM)Farm93 Wrote:  Many of the turnovers are a function of the offense.   The passes Stanford attempts are sometimes very hard to accept.   I think in most games there are 5 or 6 passes that create really easy layups, but there are usually 10-12 passes that appear very reckless.   
After the UW, game I made a comment here about how many of our passes are a 10 on the degree of difficulty scale.  If we set the maximum to 8, we probably prevent 5 turnovers a game, which might have flipped a few losses to wins.

Winflop, you also missed the failure to call timeout when we got a 5 seconds call in one of the OTs.  And you forgot some puzzling lineup choices that are definitely on Haase.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - gailtate - 02-21-2021

Barring a March miracle, season tix sales for next year look brutal. Thus far, Haase Era = Dawkins Deux.  Sans the fluke Sweet 16.

lex24 - lex24 - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 08:01 AM)Farm93 Wrote:  
(02-21-2021, 05:44 AM)winflop Wrote:  What an awful performance, both on the court and on the sideline. I think it was more on the court though.
- It's not the coaches' fault that the team shot 50% from the free throw line
- It's (mostly) not the coaches' fault that they had 21 turnovers (I think 18 in regulation), although this is somewhat up for debate because it's been a problem for at least 3 years
- It is the coaches' fault for not calling a timeout when WSU went to a trap on the final play of regulation (or maybe one of the OTs?) and they were clearly unprepared. They had one left.

Haase is a better recruiter than Dawkins, but just like Dawkins he can't seem to develop that talent into a cohesive unit. I've heard multiple commentators this year talk about how talented and deep this team is. Well the results certainly indicate something else, even if they make the tournament. It's gonna be a tough road to that now. Two tough opponents in the last three games and then the conference tournament. Depending on how the regular season ends, they may need to make the finals to get a bid.
Many of the turnovers are a function of the offense.   The passes Stanford attempts are sometimes very hard to accept.   I think in most games there are 5 or 6 passes that create really easy layups, but there are usually 10-12 passes that appear very reckless.   

It is possible the current team is the most talented at Stanford in the last 15 years.   What would that imply about this season? 
Perhaps the record and the struggles closing out games are a function of the quirks of the COVID-19 challenges, or maybe a function of the coaching.

For 2020-2021 I can put a good chunk on COVID-19 challenges, but we've been here before with the team limping and stumbling more and more often at the end of games and at the end of a season.

Haase might have been a good option to get Stanford from awful to respectable, but might not be able to coach talent Stanford can typically recruit from respectable to a top 25 level.  Maybe 2021-2022 can be that breakthrough season, but I fear even without COVID-19 the multi-year pattern of weak finishes will remain.

Under Haase, I feel like I watch the wins and tournament expectations fade away as we approach mid-March with many noting that NEXT season will be the one.

When you lose your most experienced guards closing games becomes much more difficult.
(02-20-2021, 05:25 PM)burger Wrote:  
(02-20-2021, 05:00 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote:  No kidding, that's terrible coaching if so. I missed the second half of this one and am glad I did. What a train wreck. 50% free throws percentage and 24 TOs? My question from what I saw in the first half: Why keep Kisunas in so much? He was fumbling every ball sent to him that I saw. I really expected to see a different starting lineup today and hope we'll see it come Thursday.

(02-20-2021, 04:52 PM)BobK Wrote:  Gee hope we can make the NCAAs next season.  That was poor. 
Up three seconds left you foul.  Coaching 101

Kisunas had a rough game and it never really got better.  Haase should've tried either going with a smaller lineup or giving Murrell more time, but he didn't.

This is the first time in a while where I've felt like Haase did a bad job of coaching.  WSU was 6-10 in conference with basically one good player, and we let him beat us.  Surely we could've put more emphasis on rebounding.  Also switching on screens more would've helped (though we did some--just not enough).

Thank goodness the USC game got postponed.

“Surely we could've put more emphasis on rebounding.” And you know they didn’t, how?  

RE: lex24 - burger - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 10:05 AM)lex24 Wrote:  “Surely we could've put more emphasis on rebounding.” And you know they didn’t, how?  

Because after most of our shots, the only player trying to rebound was Kisunas, and he was usually surrounded by 3 or more WSU players.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - BillBradley - 02-21-2021

If you measure recruiting purely on the ratings of the players, then I'd say Haase has done a nice job. However, our perimeter players are not good shooters and that's a killer. Perhaps he gets a partial pass because Terry left early, but other than Jones we don't really have guys who can reliably hit perimeter shots. We are 274th in the country in 3pt shooting %. That just won't get it done in today's game. 

So how does that happen? Part of recruiting is getting the right players, not just the most talented. Look at the 2003-2004 team - Lottich, Hernandez, Childress, Little, Davis, Haryasz. Not ultra-talented for sure, but Hernandez, Lottich, and Chiildress could hit the open shot so other teams had to respect it. That team didn't take a lot of 3's, and Montgomery liked to go inside, but if other teams packed it in our guards would make them pay.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - BobK - 02-21-2021

Bill Childress and Davis were top 25 recruits. Lottich around 60

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - VB Card - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 11:44 AM)BillBradley Wrote:  If you measure recruiting purely on the ratings of the players, then I'd say Haase has done a nice job. However, our perimeter players are not good shooters and that's a killer. Perhaps he gets a partial pass because Terry left early, but other than Jones we don't really have guys who can reliably hit perimeter shots. We are 274th in the country in 3pt shooting %. That just won't get it done in today's game. 

So how does that happen? Part of recruiting is getting the right players, not just the most talented. Look at the 2003-2004 team - Lottich, Hernandez, Childress, Little, Davis, Haryasz. Not ultra-talented for sure, but Hernandez, Lottich, and Chiildress could hit the open shot so other teams had to respect it. That team didn't take a lot of 3's, and Montgomery liked to go inside, but if other teams packed it in our guards would make them pay.
 

The issue is that Haase recruited Taitz and Angel as shooters, but they don't get any playing time when this team is fully healthy. Angel isn't ready to play at this level yet, he needs to gain some weight. But Taitz has shown he can play and I think by the time he is done, he will have hit a large number of 3's.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - burger - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 11:54 AM)VB Card Wrote:  
(02-21-2021, 11:44 AM)BillBradley Wrote:  If you measure recruiting purely on the ratings of the players, then I'd say Haase has done a nice job. However, our perimeter players are not good shooters and that's a killer. Perhaps he gets a partial pass because Terry left early, but other than Jones we don't really have guys who can reliably hit perimeter shots. We are 274th in the country in 3pt shooting %. That just won't get it done in today's game. 

So how does that happen? Part of recruiting is getting the right players, not just the most talented. Look at the 2003-2004 team - Lottich, Hernandez, Childress, Little, Davis, Haryasz. Not ultra-talented for sure, but Hernandez, Lottich, and Chiildress could hit the open shot so other teams had to respect it. That team didn't take a lot of 3's, and Montgomery liked to go inside, but if other teams packed it in our guards would make them pay.
 

The issue is that Haase recruited Taitz and Angel as shooters, but they don't get any playing time when this team is fully healthy. Angel isn't ready to play at this level yet, he needs to gain some weight. But Taitz has shown he can play and I think by the time he is done, he will have hit a large number of 3's.

I agree on Taitz.  He was playing well while Wills and Davis were out--5 for his last 12 on 3 pointers and 50% on 2-pointers, including a lot of jumpers, in that stretch.  But as soon as we got healthy, he was relegated to the back of the bench.  It couldn't have hurt to give him some playing time.  As long as you didn't have him guarding Williams yesterday, I doubt his defense would have been an issue.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - AlbanyCardinal - 02-21-2021

If our coach's name were Dawkins in year five, how many of us would know a game had even been played yesterday?

My hopes for Haase on the Farm have ridden on a roller coaster since day one. I started out bullish on him, then lost confidence after year three, then got excited again first half of year four and again discouraged by the end of that season. Ditto this season. His teams have a hard time sustaining success for longer than 2-3 games (played great against 'Bama and UNC, whom they deserved to beat, and then got destroyed by a middling IU squad; great wins against UCLA and Arizona, bad loss to ASU; etc., etc.), and seem to collapse as conference play heats up. No matter how good his recruiting may be, no matter how healthy his lineup is, this ugly pattern has so far blemished his time on the Farm, no question. It's almost as if his players run themselves ragged in a few games, hustling and collecting floor burns, and then sleepwalk through the next match.

I still think his defense-first approach is a good fit here. His recruiting stands out obviously. At the same time, some of his lineups and (mis)use of personnel have me scratching my head (and I know I'm not alone). Sometimes -- yesterday is as good an example as any -- he makes in-game coaching blunders that should worry any fan. 

I still want him to succeed, b/c he has a few parts working well and a coaching change would set back the program (and is always a roll of the dice). But assuming he'll be on the Farm another few years, as has already been hashed out on this board, if these patterns continue I'd agree that those dice should be rolled. 

On a separate but maybe somewhat related note, is ZW in the doghouse? He couldn't be for having attended an uncle's funeral, and I know he's not the second coming, but 19 minutes in a 55-minute game, second-lowest game time above only Murrell? What gives?

(02-20-2021, 04:46 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:  If our coach’s name were Dawkins, the Board would be crucifying him right now. Epic coaching malpractice in this game.


RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - old spanish trail - 02-21-2021

Loudly wondering the same thing re Zaire, Albany. Even if you instruct him not to shoot his good 8 foot jumper, he can defend, shoot free throws and rebound, which would have come in handy in the 4th quarter and OT. I don't get it.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - BillBradley - 02-21-2021

Me too. In those areas ZW was exactly what we needed. I also would have liked to seen his length on their Williams who dropped 40. Bet he wouldn't have hit all those threes over ZW.

I'm not sold on Taitz and Angel as shooters. Maybe they will improve as they get more experience, but it's going to be hard for them to get their shots off comfortably. Small sample size I realize, but Taitz is 10/38 this year from 3 (26%). I just don't see him jumping up to the 40% mark. Hope I'm wrong there. I do think O'Connell has it in him to become a better shooter. Maybe Ingram and/or Silva could lift us up some here. Although it looks like Ingram is more of a slasher type? 

Along with Terry leaving, I also forgot about Cormac Ryan who, coming out of high school, was known for his shooting abilities (although he did struggle some his first year at Stanford). This year's team would have been WAY different and so much better with Terry and Ryan. I should give more credit to Haase on the recruiting front when it comes to shooters because he did have those guys in place.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - Phogge - 02-21-2021

It’s obvious what should be done. Bring back wrestling and dump men’s hoops.

RE: MBB @ WSU, 1pm Saturday ESPN2 - AlbanyCardinal - 02-21-2021

(02-21-2021, 09:33 PM)BillBradley Wrote:  Maybe Ingram and/or Silva could lift us up some here. Although it looks like Ingram is more of a slasher type? 

Based on what I've read, Jarvis Moss may be the best shooter in the bunch.