Men's and Women's Gymnastics - Printable Version
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RE: Men's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-28-2021
(07-28-2021, 04:27 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(07-27-2021, 08:51 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-27-2021, 08:35 PM)Phogge Wrote: Luck played all 16 regular season games and two playoffs and retired after the season.
He quit on nobody in the middle of competition.
I don't think Luck "quit" on anybody given his physical/mental situation, but he retired one week before the start of the season, not "after the season". If he has retired "after the season" the Colts would have had time to make adjustments instead of wasting a season before being able to reset their roster. Luck retired between the last preseason game and the first regular season game, pretty unsettling for the team to lose their starting QB at that point, not that different from Biles quitting between the the preliminary and final rounds of the team competition; unfortunate but others took her place and actually performed well. Neither situation was good, but in any case I don't think Luck or Biles felt they had a real choice in their minds, which is what really matters.
Why are you insisting on equating two entirely different situations?
And specifically, how do you know Luck quit because of mental health issues, as opposed to having the ever-loving crap beaten out of him for years and the inability to recover physically from same?
I certainly never equated the two situations; in fact I specifically stated that they were different. I was responding to a post that said that Biles had walked out on her teammates. I pointed out that by retiring on the eve of the first game of the season Luck has similarly left his teammates in a tough spot.
My basis for reading into Luck's decision is based on what he said at his retirement press conference. Specifically citing exhaustion which threatened his mental and emotional health. I don't know why he retired but I know what he said the reason was, and choose to believe him. You are welcome to disbelieve him.
He was a big, tough guy who played hurt through multiple injuries, that's football. But he said those injuries had worn him down mentally to the point that he couldn't bring himself to go through the process of getting ready to play again. Not that he was physically unable to play once he recovered, but that he was so mentally beaten up that he felt he had to walk away. Google "Andrew Luck" and "mental health" and there is a lot to read. He specifically used the term "mentally exhausted" - you can look up the definition of this term on webmd and the like.
Different from Biles, as I clearly said, but both suffering mentally and emotionally. And they both did what they felt they had to do for their own mental health despite the unfortunate consequences to their teammates, which is the specific parallel I drew.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - Phogge - 07-28-2021
Of course Harry Edwards pontificated on NPR today and brought it all back to one issue.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - teejers1 - 07-28-2021
(07-28-2021, 10:30 PM)Phogge Wrote: Of course Harry Edwards pontificated on NPR today and brought it all back to one issue.
Well, for certain folks, everything comes back to one issue.
It's a lazy outlook and often a cop out; but hey, to each his/her own.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - Leftcoast - 07-28-2021
(07-28-2021, 11:46 AM)martyup Wrote: Well, IMO the press can look in the mirror to find the reason Biles withdrew from the competition. I have watched them build her up as the GOAT and a sure lock on multiple gold medals at the Olympics. They have aired numerous video profiles building her up as this amazing and invincible gymnastics machine. When I saw the build up, I thought to myself that this was a perfect set up for a let down. That is too much pressure to put on a person that has suffered so much abuse in her short lifetime. It turns out that she is a human, not a machine. The press didn't get their scripted glorious ending. I hope Simone can move on and live a long and happy life.
Not sure you can scapegoat the media on this. When the media spotlighted her as the invincible hero of the 2021 games Simone was a more than willing participant and fueled the build-up with extensive interviews, commercials and the use of her hefty social media presence. My family followed along with her in "Simone vs Herself" a presciently named 6 episode Facebook video series from the same team that profiled Tom Brady and Steph Curry in "Tom vs Time" and "Steph vs The Game". (One short clip titled "Simone: Mental Health" featured clips of her coaches discussing her mental strength and how she would overcome the pressure of being the star of the games by tuning out distractions.)
I hope Simone doesn't take the easy route of being a victim of a hostile media as that path would be disingenuous. Better to use this to speak to the pressures all athletes face. Admit that she's human, Gymnastics is hard, the Olympics are uniquely stressful, sometimes your body lets you down and even the best, the GOAT of her sport, can experience failure, and face it gracefully. I think that's the helpful lesson here and one with the strong advantage of being true.
Facebook Watch
Follow gymnast Simone Biles in a new chapter of the Versus Series, Simone vs Herself, only on Facebook Watch.
https://www.facebook.com/vsonwatch/?ref=page_internal
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - 82lsju - 07-29-2021
Quote:Brody Malone was under the radar. Now he’s the future of U.S. men’s gymnastics.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2021/07/28/brody-malone-us-gymnastics-olympics/
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - martyup - 07-30-2021
I get that Simone embraced the build-up of her greatness in the media, but what do you expect of a young girl that has had that kind of success? Her post Olympic earning potential depends a lot upon her exposure in the media.
Maybe this will be a lesson for future gymnastics stars to go easy on the PR, but I doubt it will change anything.
It might turn out better for Simone than if she had fulfilled expectations. She is being portrayed as a hero for putting "mental health" ahead of winning gold. Now that her teammate won the all-around gold, there is less noise in social media that she let her country down.
Let's hope she comes out of this episode in her life with happiness and success. She has certainly earned it.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - teejers1 - 07-30-2021
(07-30-2021, 09:04 AM)martyup Wrote: I get that Simone embraced the build-up of her greatness in the media, but what do you expect of a young girl that has had that kind of success? Her post Olympic earning potential depends a lot upon her exposure in the media.
Maybe this will be a lesson for future gymnastics stars to go easy on the PR, but I doubt it will change anything.
It might turn out better for Simone than if she had fulfilled expectations. She is being portrayed as a hero for putting "mental health" ahead of winning gold. Now that her teammate won the all-around gold, there is less noise in social media that she let her country down.
Let's hope she comes out of this episode in her life with happiness and success. She has certainly earned it.
Biles will be fine - on and off the mat. Off it, you already noted the hero portrayal. On the mat, even at 80% effectiveness, she is still the best gymnast in the world. (And I suspect that is what JoeOlympicsWatcher thought when complaining about her refusal to even try - if she even performed at 80%, the team wins gold).
What this reinforces from here: the mental aspect of any competitive sports endeavor is often just as important as the physical side of things. Biles didn't have it this Olympics; and unlike golf - where "not being right" might result in mistakes in shot-making or decision-making - that is dangerous to the competitor. So she sat it out. Makes sense, even if it sucks for her and the team.
P.S. Wonder if a race car driver ever sat one out because the head wasn't right? Wouldn't blame him/her - and neither would their competitors I suspect. Talk about life-threatening.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-30-2021
(07-30-2021, 12:47 PM)teejers1 Wrote: P.S. Wonder if a race car driver ever sat one out because the head wasn't right? Wouldn't blame him/her - and neither would their competitors I suspect. Talk about life-threatening.
Stirling Moss retired when he was 32, while regarded as one of the best Formula One drivers in the world. He was involved in a horrific accident and after he returned he tested a few times and stated that he didn't feel that he was at his previous level and wasn't comfortable resuming his career. Not exactly what you asked, but it was clear that even though he had recovered he felt that even a slight drop-off in performance was too dangerous.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - 82lsju - 07-30-2021
(07-30-2021, 01:01 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-30-2021, 12:47 PM)teejers1 Wrote: P.S. Wonder if a race car driver ever sat one out because the head wasn't right? Wouldn't blame him/her - and neither would their competitors I suspect. Talk about life-threatening.
Stirling Moss retired when he was 32, while regarded as one of the best Formula One drivers in the world. He was involved in a horrific accident and after he returned he tested a few times and stated that he didn't feel that he was at his previous level and wasn't comfortable resuming his career. Not exactly what you asked, but it was clear that even though he had recovered he felt that even a slight drop-off in performance was too dangerous.
Niki Lauda pulled out after two laps in the 1976 Japanese Grand Prix because he thought it unsafe to continue in the rain, he was three points ahead in the Championship entering the race and ended up losing the championship by one point to James Hunt (the Japanese Grand Prix was the last race of the season). Lauda had been severely burned earlier in the season in a crash at the German Grand Prix, he was so badly injured in that race that he was given last rites while in the hospital. He had tried to organize the drivers to boycott the German Grand Prix due to safety concerns at the track but failed to get much support.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - Farm93 - 07-30-2021
(07-30-2021, 01:01 PM)DC 86 Wrote:Formula One used to be a bit riskier than it is today. Many drivers raced, crashed and even died when they probably should not have been back on the track. To the question...last year Pierre Grosjean was in a massive accident. Though he was lucky to be alive he escaped with rather minor burns to his hands and decided not to race the next week. In prior generations racers probably would have done more to get back into the car even if it meant long-term health issues. Niki Lauda comes to mind as he almost died and then raced a few weeks later with yet to heal burns on his scalp.(07-30-2021, 12:47 PM)teejers1 Wrote: P.S. Wonder if a race car driver ever sat one out because the head wasn't right? Wouldn't blame him/her - and neither would their competitors I suspect. Talk about life-threatening.
Stirling Moss retired when he was 32, while regarded as one of the best Formula One drivers in the world. He was involved in a horrific accident and after he returned he tested a few times and stated that he didn't feel that he was at his previous level and wasn't comfortable resuming his career. Not exactly what you asked, but it was clear that even though he had recovered he felt that even a slight drop-off in performance was too dangerous.
For gymnastics things rarely go wrong at the elite level, but gymnasts have the potential to literally kill themselves if their routines go wrong. Perhaps in the 80s if Simone Biles was on a Romanian or Russian team she would find a way to quickly get over her twisties, but I don't blame her for not wanting to risk long-term injury so that Mother USA could have a better shot at gold.
Given that ROC won the competition it would not shock me to find out in a few years that Biles and the others ultimately get gold medals given Russia's history with Olympic cheating.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - BostonCard - 07-30-2021
(07-30-2021, 12:47 PM)teejers1 Wrote: What this reinforces from here: the mental aspect of any competitive sports endeavor is often just as important as the physical side of things. Biles didn't have it this Olympics; and unlike golf - where "not being right" might result in mistakes in shot-making or decision-making - that is dangerous to the competitor. So she sat it out. Makes sense, even if it sucks for her and the team.
I agree. Yesterday, she posted some videos of her practicing dismounts onto a foam cubes She wasn't just falling, she was falling flat on her face and back. You can see part of the video here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2021/07/30/simone-biles-instagram-shares-video-answers-question-twisties/5426358001/
(starting at around 56 seconds)
Quote:Biles posted two videos on her Instagram story of her trying to do her uneven bars dismount Friday, and it’s clear she is not her usual self. She is supposed to do a double twisting somersault and, in the first video, she gets through a half twist before suddenly dropping out of the air and landing flat on her back. In the second, she makes it 1½ times around.
In both videos, she is landing on mats placed over a pit filled with foam blocks. In competition, however, she would have to do her skills on a hard, unforgiving surface.
I think a lot of people with hot takes failed to appreciate just how debilitating and dangerous what is happening to her is. I hope she recovers.
BC
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - martyup - 07-30-2021
I was once a professional bull rider in the PRCA. The mental aspect was crucial and the risk of mental lapse could and has been be fatal in that sport. Yet, we were not allowed to "turn out" a draw unless we had a medical issue backed by a doctor. If we did, we were fined.
I once drew Flying U's bull C13 "Freaky Friday" at Clovis CA. This bull was notoriously "hooky" but not the kind of bucker that you were likely win on. The draw was posted on Thursday afternoon for the next day's performance, Friday the 13th! I didn't sleep very well that night, to say the least. Tested my mettle.
Rodeo never was and probably never will be progressive.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - teejers1 - 07-30-2021
(07-30-2021, 05:01 PM)martyup Wrote: I was once a professional bull rider in the PRCA. The mental aspect was crucial and the risk of mental lapse could and has been be fatal in that sport. Yet, we were not allowed to "turn out" a draw unless we had a medical issue backed by a doctor. If we did, we were fined.
I once drew Flying U's bull C13 "Freaky Friday" at Clovis CA. This bull was notoriously "hooky" but not the kind of bucker that you were likely win on. The draw was posted on Thursday afternoon for the next day's performance, Friday the 13th! I didn't sleep very well that night, to say the least. Tested my mettle.
Rodeo never was and probably never will be progressive.
The bull I remember most - and the one featured pretty regularly on "George Michael's Sports Machine" (and early all sports segment) - was Bodacious. That bull did some serious damage . . . and this was before riders wore protective head gear. Yikes!!
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - Phogge - 07-31-2021
One of my cousins was a team roper. I had tons of respect for the bull riders and much empathy for them because most of them limped or were a bit slouched over. Good on you Marty, about all I could do was dispense injections at roundup.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - akiddoc - 08-04-2021
Brody should have won a medal on H Bar. Silly avoidable mistake lost him between .7 and 1.2 points. Could have won a silver I believe. He went through the hard part of his routine with impeccable form. 4th place. Only American male to come close to a medal in gymnastics.