Clay Helton Fired - Printable Version
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RE: Clay Helton Fired - martyup - 09-14-2021
Two words that I don't want to hear at a future USC press conference -- Urban Meyer.
![[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia...f=1&nofb=1]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fs3FTHQ0Bliz5u%2F200.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
RE: Clay Helton Fired - Papa John - 09-14-2021
I think the Urban Meyer window closed when he took the Jaguars job, at least for now.
I just watched the abridged, 60-minute version of the game, on the Pac-12 Network. At the beginning of the program they showed USC's entrance onto the field with Tim Brando, the announcer, referring to the USC coach as Ken Helton.
Kind of funny, kind of sad given what transpired.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - BostonCard - 09-14-2021
I'm surprised Teejers hasn't penned a "why this is a disaster for Stanford football" post yet. It would at least contain a kernel of truth to it, which is this. As long as Helton was coach, USC would likely underachieve and remain mediocre, at least compared to expectations. I don't think that USC will be able to hire Petersen (I can't imagine a worse fit, other than maybe Shaw), or another big name coach. But, while the most likely outcome is that USC will hire another underachieving coach (as their last three have been), there's always the possibility that they luck into another Pete Carroll (famously, their third choice after two others said no to the job). A USC playing to its potential, especially while Oregon is resurgent, would narrow the pathways to success for Stanford, especially because we do sometimes go head-to-head for recruits against USC.
On the other hand, in the short to medium term, there will be some advantages. A shaken up SC will probably play better and might deal some losses to other Pac-12 North teams. Secondly, there will be some recruiting disarray this year, and though we aren't going up against USC for more than a couple recruits, if it helps us land Bailey, for example, that's a good thing for Stanford. Third, the new coach will likely be installing a new system. That will be the third offensive system in 4 years for SC, so they will have to re-learn it (look at how long it took Chip Kelly to get things in order at UCLA). If they don't, and keep with their current system, I think it will actually be better for us in the mid-term; USC is a team that will always be able to recruit well at the skill positions, and a raid type system will underutilize their talented running backs. In fact, I think that's what saved us Saturday; a more balanced attack by USC would have been able to wear down our offensive line and forced us to bring more players into the box, which would have opened things up for their receivers. But the coaching staff never adapted to our defensive scheme. But all that is to say why I think, on balance, Helton leaving is a bad thing for Stanford. Shaw's final record against Helton was 4-3, bracketing a pair of decisive wins, and I think Shaw would likely have continued to win more than he lost.
But the decision having been made, let's hope they hire some other coach on a failing upward trajectory.
BC
RE: Clay Helton Fired - oldalum - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 10:15 AM)BostonCard Wrote: on balance, Helton leaving is a bad thing for Stanford.yes, for us he's the Steve Lavin of football. That's why I didn't mind those last two scores in the game, I was hoping it would be enough to stave off his firing longer.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - CowboyIndian - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 10:15 AM)BostonCard Wrote: As long as Helton was coach, USC would likely underachieve and remain mediocre, at least compared to expectations.
THIS! Those folks down there are delusional! And when was the last time they achieved any great success without succumbing to cheating?
RE: Clay Helton Fired - Papa John - 09-14-2021
Per the LA Times, here are the top 13 candidates for the USC football coach opening:
Matt Campbell, Iowa State
Luke Fickell, Cincinatti
James Franklin, Penn State
Kyle Whittingham, Utah
Greg Schiano, Rutgers
Eric Bienemy, KC Chiefs offensive coordinator
Jeff Hafley, Boston College
Bill O'Brien, Alabama offensive coordinator
Mark Stoops, Kentucky
PJ Fleck, Minnesota
Tony Elliott, Clemson offensive coordinator
Chris Petersen, formerly from UW
Bob Stoops, formerly from Oklahoma
Any of these names strike fear into the hearts of the Cardinal faithful?
RE: Clay Helton Fired - yvonne - 09-14-2021
This Reddit thread is priceless on so many levels.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - TriangleTree - 09-14-2021
Stanford didn't beat USC because they were weak, we beat them because we were damn good.
A good Stanford will get their fair share against a good USC. I'm not sure that I care that much about the strength of USC, there's even some halo conference effect that we benefit from particularly if they beat the occasional non-conference blueblood.
Beating a highly ranked hopeful USC is what my enjoyment in Stanford football is all about. Just like with ND and more recently Oregon.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - Phogge - 09-14-2021
LOL. The best post was about the guy's cousin not marrying Matt Leinert. It apparently was a personal affront.
I think they should hire Chris Kleiman. Runs a pro offense and EVERY SC player wants to play in the NFL. But they will go for a big name.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - ADPinWDC - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 11:03 AM)Papa John Wrote: Per the LA Times, here are the top 13 candidates for the USC football coach opening:
Matt Campbell, Iowa State
Luke Fickell, Cincinatti
James Franklin, Penn State
Kyle Whittingham, Utah
Greg Schiano, Rutgers
Eric Bienemy, KC Chiefs offensive coordinator
Jeff Hafley, Boston College
Bill O'Brien, Alabama offensive coordinator
Mark Stoops, Kentucky
PJ Fleck, Minnesota
Tony Elliott, Clemson offensive coordinator
Chris Petersen, formerly from UW
Bob Stoops, formerly from Oklahoma
Any of these names strike fear into the hearts of the Cardinal faithful?
YES -- Eric Bieniemy at KC. Only being paid $2M I read. U$C could pay him $6M+ easily.
Bringing the KC Playbook to Troy would pose a challenge. Potent.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - Goose - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 10:32 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:I don't think they much care about the cheating part. They want a coach that will return them to national relevance, no matter how he does it. Not getting caught is nice, but not essential. The real problem is that U$C needs a coach that wins. To do that, he has to have the confidence of the athletes and instill discipline in their play. That has proven difficult to do, but is essential to success. The coach also has to interface with and to a significant degree please the administration. The coach has boundaries. They are wide boundaries, but they exist and an underlying current of distaste from the administration is a real negative. The coach also has to please the alumni base which as pointed out is delusional. Then, after he has done all that he has to recruit players and win. Not may are willing to even attempt all this once they realize what is involved.(09-14-2021, 10:15 AM)BostonCard Wrote: As long as Helton was coach, USC would likely underachieve and remain mediocre, at least compared to expectations.
THIS! Those folks down there are delusional! And when was the last time they achieved any great success without succumbing to cheating?
RE: Clay Helton Fired - martyup - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 11:03 AM)yvonne Wrote: This Reddit thread is priceless on so many levels.
Thanks for the laughs Yvonne. Here are some good ones:
Quote:People think USC is rivals with UCLA. This is not exactly true anymore. Who at USC hates, from the academic students to the football team fans to the administrators, is Stanford. USC hates Stanford more than f**king ANYTHING. You know why? Because Stanford is the school that every really smart USC kid didn’t get into, that every faculty member and administrator would have worked at if they had gotten the chance. The current non-football-giving-a-shit USC President’s office is to be Stanford. It’s all they want in the whole world. The one thing USC had on Stanford, the only thing, was the football team. That was the deal: Stanford is basically an Ivy, but USC has incredible football and incredible parties. You can get beat by anyone, but you absolutely cannot get smacked by Stanford. It’s the only unforgivable sin. Also their band is obnoxious as hell
Quote:Every word of this is 100% accurate. I dislike Notre Dame and UCLA. I hate Stanford. Except for today. Today I love that stupid f**kin' tree.
Quote:It’s more like Stanford doesn’t deserve a good football team because their ‘fans’ are the worst - like so elitist that football is some primitive game for peasants. I watched the Pac10 championship game at Stanford against UCLA many years back. Stadium was less than half full and mostly UCLA fans. F* StanfÚrd
Quote:Also, it's FÚrd. Everyone in California hates them.This is from a cal fan, if that wasn't obvious.
Quote:Stanford, what have you done?! You're supposed to beat USC but not BEAT-beat USC!
Quote:Leave it to LSJU to ruin a good thing for all of us.
Quote:f*ck the farm amiright
Quote:Blame the tree. It’s always the tree’s fault!
RE: Clay Helton Fired - newguy - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 11:03 AM)yvonne Wrote: This Reddit thread is priceless on so many levels.
literally laughing out loud at all the anger directed at us from Irish and Bruin fans.
thanks Yvonne!!
RE: Clay Helton Fired - teejers1 - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 10:15 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I'm surprised Teejers hasn't penned a "why this is a disaster for Stanford football" post yet. It would at least contain a kernel of truth to it, which is this. As long as Helton was coach, USC would likely underachieve and remain mediocre, at least compared to expectations. I don't think that USC will be able to hire Petersen (I can't imagine a worse fit, other than maybe Shaw), or another big name coach. But, while the most likely outcome is that USC will hire another underachieving coach (as their last three have been), there's always the possibility that they luck into another Pete Carroll (famously, their third choice after two others said no to the job). A USC playing to its potential, especially while Oregon is resurgent, would narrow the pathways to success for Stanford, especially because we do sometimes go head-to-head for recruits against USC.
On the other hand, in the short to medium term, there will be some advantages. A shaken up SC will probably play better and might deal some losses to other Pac-12 North teams. Secondly, there will be some recruiting disarray this year, and though we aren't going up against USC for more than a couple recruits, if it helps us land Bailey, for example, that's a good thing for Stanford. Third, the new coach will likely be installing a new system. That will be the third offensive system in 4 years for SC, so they will have to re-learn it (look at how long it took Chip Kelly to get things in order at UCLA). If they don't, and keep with their current system, I think it will actually be better for us in the mid-term; USC is a team that will always be able to recruit well at the skill positions, and a raid type system will underutilize their talented running backs. In fact, I think that's what saved us Saturday; a more balanced attack by USC would have been able to wear down our offensive line and forced us to bring more players into the box, which would have opened things up for their receivers. But the coaching staff never adapted to our defensive scheme. But all that is to say why I think, on balance, Helton leaving is a bad thing for Stanford. Shaw's final record against Helton was 4-3, bracketing a pair of decisive wins, and I think Shaw would likely have continued to win more than he lost.
But the decision having been made, let's hope they hire some other coach on a failing upward trajectory.
BC
1. Could have sworn that I posted about wanting Helton at SC for as long as possible;
2. Have separately opined that Urban Meyer would be a problem hire; but
3. Now think Fickell will be the guy, and I think he is a very good coach (so I'm not thrilled about that prospect, either).
4. Heard Colin Cowherd opine that SC should "go pro" and hire Doug Pederson because he doesn't need "control" like a lot of the prima donna college coaches do, won't be "freaked out" by kids making $$, NIL or otherwise, and big metropolitan college teams (Miami, UCLA, SC) have succeeded with pro colleges historically. I haven't given the pro-versus-college coach angle much thought and have no clue how Pederson would do at SC. I think reasonably well (which means a notch better than Helton, but perhaps not Petey heights).
RE: Clay Helton Fired - Langdude - 09-14-2021
Wow. We beat the Hel(ton) out of SC.
OK I'll stop.
-m.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - 82 Card - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 12:52 PM)newguy Wrote:(09-14-2021, 11:03 AM)yvonne Wrote: This Reddit thread is priceless on so many levels.
literally laughing out loud at all the anger directed at us from Irish and Bruin fans.
thanks Yvonne!!
I don't understand the animosity. I have faith in SC screwing this up too.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - BostonCard - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 01:19 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(09-14-2021, 10:15 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I'm surprised Teejers hasn't penned a "why this is a disaster for Stanford football" post yet. It would at least contain a kernel of truth to it, which is this. As long as Helton was coach, USC would likely underachieve and remain mediocre, at least compared to expectations. I don't think that USC will be able to hire Petersen (I can't imagine a worse fit, other than maybe Shaw), or another big name coach. But, while the most likely outcome is that USC will hire another underachieving coach (as their last three have been), there's always the possibility that they luck into another Pete Carroll (famously, their third choice after two others said no to the job). A USC playing to its potential, especially while Oregon is resurgent, would narrow the pathways to success for Stanford, especially because we do sometimes go head-to-head for recruits against USC.
On the other hand, in the short to medium term, there will be some advantages. A shaken up SC will probably play better and might deal some losses to other Pac-12 North teams. Secondly, there will be some recruiting disarray this year, and though we aren't going up against USC for more than a couple recruits, if it helps us land Bailey, for example, that's a good thing for Stanford. Third, the new coach will likely be installing a new system. That will be the third offensive system in 4 years for SC, so they will have to re-learn it (look at how long it took Chip Kelly to get things in order at UCLA). If they don't, and keep with their current system, I think it will actually be better for us in the mid-term; USC is a team that will always be able to recruit well at the skill positions, and a raid type system will underutilize their talented running backs. In fact, I think that's what saved us Saturday; a more balanced attack by USC would have been able to wear down our offensive line and forced us to bring more players into the box, which would have opened things up for their receivers. But the coaching staff never adapted to our defensive scheme. But all that is to say why I think, on balance, Helton leaving is a bad thing for Stanford. Shaw's final record against Helton was 4-3, bracketing a pair of decisive wins, and I think Shaw would likely have continued to win more than he lost.
But the decision having been made, let's hope they hire some other coach on a failing upward trajectory.
BC
1. Could have sworn that I posted about wanting Helton at SC for as long as possible;
2. Have separately opined that Urban Meyer would be a problem hire; but
3. Now think Fickell will be the guy, and I think he is a very good coach (so I'm not thrilled about that prospect, either).
4. Heard Colin Cowherd opine that SC should "go pro" and hire Doug Pederson because he doesn't need "control" like a lot of the prima donna college coaches do, won't be "freaked out" by kids making $$, NIL or otherwise, and big metropolitan college teams (Miami, UCLA, SC) have succeeded with pro colleges historically. I haven't given the pro-versus-college coach angle much thought and have no clue how Pederson would do at SC. I think reasonably well (which means a notch better than Helton, but perhaps not Petey heights).
Yeah, we've all expressed our fear that Helton would be fired, but I expected you to make the case for exactly why it would be really bad for Stanford.
I don't think Franklin would be a problem. To quote Gregg Easterbrook's great Tuesday Night Quarterback column, "When you hire a coach who is only in it for himself, you get a coach who is only in it for himself." Franklin jumping from Vandy to Penn to USC would be a coach only in it for themselves. But, you never know.
I don't know if you'd be able to take an NFL head coach and convince him he'd be better off coaching in college, even at a semi-pro team like SC. But I do worry about bringing NFL bona fides into college, so the one that scares me is Eric Bienemy. I think USC is one school that could recruit the athletes you need to run a Kansas City style high-powered offense.
BC
RE: Clay Helton Fired - teejers1 - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 01:38 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(09-14-2021, 01:19 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(09-14-2021, 10:15 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I'm surprised Teejers hasn't penned a "why this is a disaster for Stanford football" post yet. It would at least contain a kernel of truth to it, which is this. As long as Helton was coach, USC would likely underachieve and remain mediocre, at least compared to expectations. I don't think that USC will be able to hire Petersen (I can't imagine a worse fit, other than maybe Shaw), or another big name coach. But, while the most likely outcome is that USC will hire another underachieving coach (as their last three have been), there's always the possibility that they luck into another Pete Carroll (famously, their third choice after two others said no to the job). A USC playing to its potential, especially while Oregon is resurgent, would narrow the pathways to success for Stanford, especially because we do sometimes go head-to-head for recruits against USC.
On the other hand, in the short to medium term, there will be some advantages. A shaken up SC will probably play better and might deal some losses to other Pac-12 North teams. Secondly, there will be some recruiting disarray this year, and though we aren't going up against USC for more than a couple recruits, if it helps us land Bailey, for example, that's a good thing for Stanford. Third, the new coach will likely be installing a new system. That will be the third offensive system in 4 years for SC, so they will have to re-learn it (look at how long it took Chip Kelly to get things in order at UCLA). If they don't, and keep with their current system, I think it will actually be better for us in the mid-term; USC is a team that will always be able to recruit well at the skill positions, and a raid type system will underutilize their talented running backs. In fact, I think that's what saved us Saturday; a more balanced attack by USC would have been able to wear down our offensive line and forced us to bring more players into the box, which would have opened things up for their receivers. But the coaching staff never adapted to our defensive scheme. But all that is to say why I think, on balance, Helton leaving is a bad thing for Stanford. Shaw's final record against Helton was 4-3, bracketing a pair of decisive wins, and I think Shaw would likely have continued to win more than he lost.
But the decision having been made, let's hope they hire some other coach on a failing upward trajectory.
BC
1. Could have sworn that I posted about wanting Helton at SC for as long as possible;
2. Have separately opined that Urban Meyer would be a problem hire; but
3. Now think Fickell will be the guy, and I think he is a very good coach (so I'm not thrilled about that prospect, either).
4. Heard Colin Cowherd opine that SC should "go pro" and hire Doug Pederson because he doesn't need "control" like a lot of the prima donna college coaches do, won't be "freaked out" by kids making $$, NIL or otherwise, and big metropolitan college teams (Miami, UCLA, SC) have succeeded with pro colleges historically. I haven't given the pro-versus-college coach angle much thought and have no clue how Pederson would do at SC. I think reasonably well (which means a notch better than Helton, but perhaps not Petey heights).
Yeah, we've all expressed our fear that Helton would be fired, but I expected you to make the case for exactly why it would be really bad for Stanford.
I don't think Franklin would be a problem. To quote Gregg Easterbrook's great Tuesday Night Quarterback column, "When you hire a coach who is only in it for himself, you get a coach who is only in it for himself." Franklin jumping from Vandy to Penn to USC would be a coach only in it for themselves. But, you never know.
I don't know if you'd be able to take an NFL head coach and convince him he'd be better off coaching in college, even at a semi-pro team like SC. But I do worry about bringing NFL bona fides into college, so the one that scares me is Eric Bienemy. I think USC is one school that could recruit the athletes you need to run a Kansas City style high-powered offense.
BC
I think Bienemy must be suspect goods in some form or another because on the surface he should have a pro gig by now.
So I'm thinking the known, but un-stated belief within NFL circles on Bienemy is that "he's not all that" or at least "Reid is the OC, not Bienemy."
Based on that admittedly speculative reasoning, Bienemy doesn't scare me that much.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - Goose - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 01:46 PM)teejers1 Wrote: I think Bienemy must be suspect goods in some form or another because on the surface he should have a pro gig by now.Bienemy has a significant criminal rap sheet. All of it dates back to 2002 or so, as near as I can determine, but when one is looking for the face of a program, that is a problem.
So I'm thinking the known, but un-stated belief within NFL circles on Bienemy is that "he's not all that" or at least "Reid is the OC, not Bienemy."
Based on that admittedly speculative reasoning, Bienemy doesn't scare me that much.
https://www.sportscasting.com/chiefs-oc-eric-bieniemys-troubling-rap-sheet-includes-a-disturbing-assault-charge-against-a-woman/
I am pretty sure that is the thing that is slowing down his rise in the NFL. How U$C would feel about this is hard to say, but with their recent history I expect they would be concerned about appearances.
RE: Clay Helton Fired - Embo - 09-14-2021
(09-14-2021, 01:59 PM)Goose Wrote: I am pretty sure that is the thing that is slowing down his rise in the NFL. How U$C would feel about this is hard to say, but with their recent history I expect they would be concerned about appearances.
USC is very concerned about appearance. Did you see the 60 Minutes feature on Ed Orgeron a year ago? This was after his National Championship season. I have to admit I was relieved when he didn't get the permanent USC HC job - his players loved him. On the 60 Minutes segment, he was asked why he thought he didn't get the USC position. He said it succinctly - their ideal was a person who had golf clubs in his trunk.