A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner

A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Printable Version

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RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - CardinalSagehen - 11-27-2021

More from Wilner tonight…

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status/1464814625929662467?s=21[/tweet]

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - MVCard - 11-28-2021

(11-27-2021, 11:18 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: More from Wilner tonight…

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status/1464814625929662467?s=21[/tweet]

Comments are interesting… he poses a good question. I think we’ve been talking far too little about S&C coach. By accounts well documented in books and press, Turley did two things: (1) built the %#&$ out of the players we had, and (2) built a psychological foundation for the overall execution of the game, that was grounded in the drills he’d have them do. The latter is arguably the foundation of the whole intellectual brutality mindset - Harbaugh got lucky he caught lightning in a bottle with Turley, and Shaw rode it from there, but didn’t backfill it. Gotta fix that. I want videos of guys flipping tires, flinging ropes, pushing cars uphill, and generally beating the snot out of each other. Plus a whole lot of mind game training. The guys on the line who are commenting seem to know what’s needed…

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - slide - 11-28-2021

Shaw has never been a big proponent of S&C or its leader.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Row80Critic - 11-28-2021

I think JW is only asking half the question. The more important half of the question is: does Shaw know what needs to be done? Shaw's quote last night about making 'tweaks' to the program would suggest no to both questions. The program's multi-year, uninterrupted slide to rock bottom proves, at least so far, that Shaw has neither the willingness nor the knowledge to fix the program.

I'm just so tired of seeing him study that ridiculous Denny's menu every minute only to be stuffed at the line running the same 2 or 3 telegraphed plays over and over and over and over and over and over an over and over and over and over and over. And now he's figured out how to utterly ruin a once so-so defense. Enough already. It's embarrassing. This WAS his goodwill courtesy last chance year. He was 8-10 over the two prior years and now 11-19 over the last 3 years.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - JohnR34231 - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 10:21 AM)Row80Critic Wrote: I think JW is only asking half the question. The more important half of the question is: does Shaw know what needs to be done? Shaw's quote last night about making 'tweaks' to the program would suggest no to both questions. The program's multi-year, uninterrupted slide to rock bottom proves, at least so far, that Shaw has neither the willingness nor the knowledge to fix the program.

I'm just so tired of seeing him study that ridiculous Denny's menu every minute only to be stuffed at the line running the same 2 or 3 telegraphed plays over and over and over and over and over and over an over and over and over and over and over. And now he's figured out how to utterly ruin a once so-so defense. Enough already. It's embarrassing. This WAS his goodwill courtesy last chance year. He was 8-10 over the two prior years and now 11-19 over the last 3 years.

Well, I know there are a lot of people who are skeptical about Shaw's ability to fix the program after having let it slide to where it is now. However, I'm afraid they are going to have to watch him try for the next year or two. Either that or find something else to do with their Saturdays in the fall.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - teejers1 - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 10:31 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 10:21 AM)Row80Critic Wrote: I think JW is only asking half the question. The more important half of the question is: does Shaw know what needs to be done? Shaw's quote last night about making 'tweaks' to the program would suggest no to both questions. The program's multi-year, uninterrupted slide to rock bottom proves, at least so far, that Shaw has neither the willingness nor the knowledge to fix the program.

I'm just so tired of seeing him study that ridiculous Denny's menu every minute only to be stuffed at the line running the same 2 or 3 telegraphed plays over and over and over and over and over and over an over and over and over and over and over. And now he's figured out how to utterly ruin a once so-so defense. Enough already. It's embarrassing. This WAS his goodwill courtesy last chance year. He was 8-10 over the two prior years and now 11-19 over the last 3 years.

Well, I know there are a lot of people who are skeptical about Shaw's ability to fix the program after having let it slide to where it is now. However, I'm afraid they are going to have to watch him try for the next year or two. Either that or find something else to do with their Saturdays in the fall.

Correct. Because we can't reasonably expect Stanford - which trumpets excellence in all things - to take steps to lift the football program from its all-time historic low. Why would anybody hope for that? Expect that? Let alone demand that?

And once again: tens of millions of dollars is enough "thanks" for services rendered. Good effing grief!

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - winflop - 11-28-2021

Things that concern me the most in the wake of this very forgettable disaster of a season, in order of importance

1. Being dominated in the trenches on both sides of the ball
2. God awful tackling
3. How anyone could think for one second that Jack West & Tanner McKee were anywhere close to each other
4. Clock management

The solutions to these core, critical problems are not small nor are they simple. But if I'm paying my HC $6M/yr, I expect him to be able to fix all of them and quickly.

Solutions in order

1a. New S&C/training staff. We are worthless & weak in the trenches.
1b. Tougher practices. My source inside the program says practices are softer than ever. Some of that is NCAA limits on contact, etc but those are problems for every team and our opponents are tougher. They must be doing something different & better
2. Wholesale changes to the defensive coaching staff. The only guy who should stay is the ILB coach, and only because this was his first season. Can't really put a lot of blame on him.
3. New OC/QB coach who's allowed to run their offense. If Shaw won't give up the call sheet I'm not sure this one matters much
4. Shaw needs to reach out to his mentors. With all of his NFL experience, he's got to have people in his network who know how to do this better

Shaw really needs to eat some humble pie and spend some serious time looking in the mirror. He may like his players & coaches (something he said on Tuesday) but it's not working and it's not just this season.

Shaw's earned the right to fix the mess he's made of this program. But if he's not open to making significant changes then he should just resign and let someone else who's more open-minded come in.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - JohnR34231 - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 12:00 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 10:31 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 10:21 AM)Row80Critic Wrote: I think JW is only asking half the question. The more important half of the question is: does Shaw know what needs to be done? Shaw's quote last night about making 'tweaks' to the program would suggest no to both questions. The program's multi-year, uninterrupted slide to rock bottom proves, at least so far, that Shaw has neither the willingness nor the knowledge to fix the program.

I'm just so tired of seeing him study that ridiculous Denny's menu every minute only to be stuffed at the line running the same 2 or 3 telegraphed plays over and over and over and over and over and over an over and over and over and over and over. And now he's figured out how to utterly ruin a once so-so defense. Enough already. It's embarrassing. This WAS his goodwill courtesy last chance year. He was 8-10 over the two prior years and now 11-19 over the last 3 years.

Well, I know there are a lot of people who are skeptical about Shaw's ability to fix the program after having let it slide to where it is now. However, I'm afraid they are going to have to watch him try for the next year or two. Either that or find something else to do with their Saturdays in the fall.

Correct. Because we can't reasonably expect Stanford - which trumpets excellence in all things - to take steps to lift the football program from its all-time historic low. Why would anybody hope for that? Expect that? Let alone demand that?

And once again: tens of millions of dollars is enough "thanks" for services rendered. Good effing grief!

Well, I think there are two camps on this:
Camp 1 Shaw has earned enough goodwill in his successful years here that he should be given a year or two to turn this around.
Camp 2 Shaw has screwed the pooch so bad in the last few years that he shouldn't.
You are obviously in Camp 2. Unfortunately for the people who are, I am afraid the Stanford decision makers are in Camp 1.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - BostonCard - 11-28-2021

Offensive line coach (Hefferman) is also in his first year. The OL has underperformed compared to expectations, and hasn’t been devastated by injuries, so unless the transition to a new coach has delayed the OL jelling, his performance should also be evaluated.

BC

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Austroturf - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 01:10 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 12:00 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 10:31 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 10:21 AM)Row80Critic Wrote: I think JW is only asking half the question. The more important half of the question is: does Shaw know what needs to be done? Shaw's quote last night about making 'tweaks' to the program would suggest no to both questions. The program's multi-year, uninterrupted slide to rock bottom proves, at least so far, that Shaw has neither the willingness nor the knowledge to fix the program.

I'm just so tired of seeing him study that ridiculous Denny's menu every minute only to be stuffed at the line running the same 2 or 3 telegraphed plays over and over and over and over and over and over an over and over and over and over and over. And now he's figured out how to utterly ruin a once so-so defense. Enough already. It's embarrassing. This WAS his goodwill courtesy last chance year. He was 8-10 over the two prior years and now 11-19 over the last 3 years.

Well, I know there are a lot of people who are skeptical about Shaw's ability to fix the program after having let it slide to where it is now. However, I'm afraid they are going to have to watch him try for the next year or two. Either that or find something else to do with their Saturdays in the fall.

Correct. Because we can't reasonably expect Stanford - which trumpets excellence in all things - to take steps to lift the football program from its all-time historic low. Why would anybody hope for that? Expect that? Let alone demand that?

And once again: tens of millions of dollars is enough "thanks" for services rendered. Good effing grief!

Well, I think there are two camps on this:
Camp 1 Shaw has earned enough goodwill in his successful years here that he should be given a year or two to turn this around.
Camp 2 Shaw has screwed the pooch so bad in the last few years that he shouldn't.
You are obviously in Camp 2. Unfortunately for the people who are, I am afraid the Stanford decision makers are in Camp 1.

I suspect you are right here, which leads to several scenarios:

1) Shaw has that introspective moment, makes a slew of constructive changes, amasses a world-beater staff and turns the corner next year (6-6, 7-5)

2) Shaw has that introspective moment (sort of), makes a few "tweaks" to the staff and the program, but cannot appreciably improve performance (3-9 or 4-8).

3) Shaw stays the course and wins only the Colgate game next year (1-11, at which point he hits a Wlat nadir).

Any other scenarios?

If scenario 1 occurs, there will probably be a rekindling of interest in Stanford football and more butts in seats than this year. In the other two scenarios, interest will continue to wane, and even the Cardboard faithful will be following other teams (at Stanford or elsewhere). If it appears the leaders of the program don't care, why should the fans?

Let's hope it is scenario 1. Tweaking or staying the course simply will not do.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - JustAnotherFan - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 01:44 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 01:10 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 12:00 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 10:31 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-28-2021, 10:21 AM)Row80Critic Wrote: I think JW is only asking half the question. The more important half of the question is: does Shaw know what needs to be done? Shaw's quote last night about making 'tweaks' to the program would suggest no to both questions. The program's multi-year, uninterrupted slide to rock bottom proves, at least so far, that Shaw has neither the willingness nor the knowledge to fix the program.

I'm just so tired of seeing him study that ridiculous Denny's menu every minute only to be stuffed at the line running the same 2 or 3 telegraphed plays over and over and over and over and over and over an over and over and over and over and over. And now he's figured out how to utterly ruin a once so-so defense. Enough already. It's embarrassing. This WAS his goodwill courtesy last chance year. He was 8-10 over the two prior years and now 11-19 over the last 3 years.

Well, I know there are a lot of people who are skeptical about Shaw's ability to fix the program after having let it slide to where it is now. However, I'm afraid they are going to have to watch him try for the next year or two. Either that or find something else to do with their Saturdays in the fall.

Correct. Because we can't reasonably expect Stanford - which trumpets excellence in all things - to take steps to lift the football program from its all-time historic low. Why would anybody hope for that? Expect that? Let alone demand that?

And once again: tens of millions of dollars is enough "thanks" for services rendered. Good effing grief!

Well, I think there are two camps on this:
Camp 1 Shaw has earned enough goodwill in his successful years here that he should be given a year or two to turn this around.
Camp 2 Shaw has screwed the pooch so bad in the last few years that he shouldn't.
You are obviously in Camp 2. Unfortunately for the people who are, I am afraid the Stanford decision makers are in Camp 1.

I suspect you are right here, which leads to several scenarios:

1) Shaw has that introspective moment, makes a slew of constructive changes, amasses a world-beater staff and turns the corner next year (6-6, 7-5)

2) Shaw has that introspective moment (sort of), makes a few "tweaks" to the staff and the program, but cannot appreciably improve performance (3-9 or 4-8).

3) Shaw stays the course and wins only the Colgate game next year (1-11, at which point he hits a Wlat nadir).

Any other scenarios?

If scenario 1 occurs, there will probably be a rekindling of interest in Stanford football and more butts in seats than this year. In the other two scenarios, interest will continue to wane, and even the Cardboard faithful will be following other teams (at Stanford or elsewhere). If it appears the leaders of the program don't care, why should the fans?

Let's hope it is scenario 1. Tweaking or staying the course simply will not do.

I was the only one to predict 3 wins this season in the poll on this board and I tied for second on the weekly predictions for the season, so take my prediction with a grain of salt ... I am sad to say that scenario 3 is the most likely.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - Goose - 11-28-2021

(11-28-2021, 12:48 PM)winflop Wrote: 4. Shaw needs to reach out to his mentors. With all of his NFL experience, he's got to have people in his network who know how to do this better

He did. Twice in a row he hired an OL coach from the NFL that has <sarcasm>produced this great OL</sarcasm> Obviously that works well. Duo is clearly the answer.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - fullmetal - 12-07-2021

There are no answers when S&C is terrible. Duo works in the NFL, and if that's what's taught in the NFL, then it's a great recruiting tidbit to drop -- we teach you what the NFL is running right now. But NFL coaches expect players to have other techniques in the arsenal: zone blocking, man blocking, etc. Stanford certainly tried some of that this season too, but the line as a whole was unable to consistently push defensive front sevens off the ball.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - GK3 - 12-07-2021

(11-24-2021, 07:01 PM)winflop Wrote:
(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote: I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser. At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...". He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

NO COACH, IT'S ABOUT BOTH!

YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT PLAYERS - THAT'S YOU & YOUR COACHES' FAULT FOR RECRUITING THE WRONG PLAYERS
YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES - THAT'S YOUR FAULT TOO

(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote: I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser. At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...". He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

How about this instead:
"This season has been unacceptably poor from everyone's perspective. After the season is over, I will be reviewing every aspect of this program to see where improvements can be made. I am committed to fixing this."

As Goose points out, getting the right players is not easy and may be impossible in some years. Our pool of possible talent is too small. Admissions dictates to a certain extent how much talent we can even approach.
This I think makes the quality off the coaching staff and the scheme even more important. I think it is probably very hard to expect to get very good, experienced assistant coaches to come to Stanford. Too many negatives, money, housing costs etc. I think Shaw needs to be looking for young coaches who want to make a name for themselves. Unfortunately, if you find one, you probably won't keep him too long. I think Stanford is in a very difficult position when it comes to hiring major sport coaches. There is no certainty that salary levels will continue where they are.
There is not easy answer to out problems.

RE: A rare, in-your-face swipe by Jon Wilner - TonyLima - 12-07-2021

(11-24-2021, 07:01 PM)winflop Wrote:
(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote: I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser. At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...". He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

NO COACH, IT'S ABOUT BOTH!

YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT PLAYERS - THAT'S YOU & YOUR COACHES' FAULT FOR RECRUITING THE WRONG PLAYERS
YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT COACHES - THAT'S YOUR FAULT TOO

(11-24-2021, 11:42 AM)thunder_chik Wrote: I watched the first 10 minutes of Shaw's Tuesday presser. At 3:29, he said, "it's not about we have the wrong players, it's not about we have the wrong coaches ...". He talked a lot about being opportunistic, missed opportunities, and so forth.
Attitude and body language seemed quite defensive, and he looked tired.

How about this instead:
"This season has been unacceptably poor from everyone's perspective. After the season is over, I will be reviewing every aspect of this program to see where improvements can be made. I am committed to fixing this."

In all of our dreams!