LSJUMB Does It Again - Printable Version
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RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - lex24 - 11-30-2022
(11-30-2022, 03:20 PM)Mick Wrote:(11-29-2022, 10:29 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I think it is interesting that people here pan Stanford for "hating fun" and cracking down on things that make Stanford unique, but then when the Stanford band pulls a stunt that shows its irreverence and is 100% consistent with what it has done historically (2004 BYU game, 1997 Notre Dame game, 1990 Oregon show, 1994 impromptu courthouse show, and many more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_Band)
You can call for Stanford to crack down on the band, but you can't then turn around and accuse the university of "hating fun" just because you don't like the kind of fun that students in the band pursue.
BC
Yeah...mocking the potato famine and the million+ starving Irish, coupled with the band member dressed up as a nun and another dressed up as a cardinal probably deserved their three-year ban from playing in front of Notre Dame.
https://news.stanford.edu/news/1997/october15/irish.html
Oh c’mon Mick, what’s funnier than the Potato Famine. If only the Irish had a sense of humor…..
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - BostonCard - 11-30-2022
There’s a bit of an “only we can do that to our pledges” aspect to this, but it isn’t crazy to point out that Notre Dame’s own Mascot is a racist stereotype. The Irish, why must they fight, indeed.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2021/08/23/notre-dame-defends-fighting-irish-leprechaun-mascot-ranked-offensive/8249420002/
Be that as it may, freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences, and if you are a jerk to your guests, it is perhaps not surprising that they wouldn’t invite you to their place.
My broader perspective if you can have a tight leash don’t be surprised if the students chafe at the oversight. Or, you can give students a longer leash, but don’t be surprised if they pull crap that you don’t like. People here seem to want the University to back off from over intruding in students’ lives, but also want students to behave as the posters want them to.
BC
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - lex24 - 11-30-2022
(11-30-2022, 08:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: There’s a bit of an “only we can do that to our pledges” aspect to this, but it isn’t crazy to point out that Notre Dame’s own Mascot is a racist stereotype. The Irish, why must they fight, indeed.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2021/08/23/notre-dame-defends-fighting-irish-leprechaun-mascot-ranked-offensive/8249420002/
Be that as it may, freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences, and if you are a jerk to your guests, it is perhaps not surprising that they wouldn’t invite you to their place.
My broader perspective if you can have a tight leash don’t be surprised if the students chafe at the oversight. Or, you can give students a longer leash, but don’t be surprised if they pull crap that you don’t like. People here seem to want the University to back off from over intruding in students’ lives, but also want students to behave as the posters want them to.
BC
There is a difference, imo, between students individual actions and situations where students publicly represent the University and have “fun” at the expense of another group of people. The “Stanford Hates Fun” sign was the former. Plus it was inwardly directed. The Bands “antics” towards ND, BYU Oregon and Iowa in the 2016 Rose Bowl, to name just a few, are the latter.
And while I understand that the band has some autonomy from and is not officially sanctioned by the University, that is, imo a strawman. Simply put, there are plenty of ways to have “fun”. But doing so as a group by attacking some perceived characteristic of your opponent while representing the University, does not, imo, shed a positive light on the institution.
Finally, I’ll say what I’ve said before relative to such band “antics”: why? Is it their goal to anger and humiliate fans and supporters of the opposition? Should that be the function of a University band. I don’t think so.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - winflop - 12-01-2022
IIRC, the band skit that got them in trouble at BYU was when the drum major dressed up as Joseph Smith and married all five of the Dollies, each in a wedding dress.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - dabigv13 - 12-01-2022
That was at Stanford, and I think it was Tom Hennessy, president Hennesy's son, who was band manager at the time that did the marrying.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - Phogge - 12-01-2022
The stunts reek of “We are Stanford and you aren’t.” Not attractive.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - dabigv13 - 12-01-2022
Like BC, I also think it's silly for people to lament administration overreach and then lambast the band for some jokes in poor taste.
It's the LSJUMB. They always tell jokes in bad taste, and they have for decades. When I was a student, I loved it, even though all the old fogies were annoyed. I hope they continue to tell jokes in bad taste and annoy the old fogies.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - gailtate - 12-01-2022
(11-30-2022, 09:41 PM)lex24 Wrote:(11-30-2022, 08:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: There’s a bit of an “only we can do that to our pledges” aspect to this, but it isn’t crazy to point out that Notre Dame’s own Mascot is a racist stereotype. The Irish, why must they fight, indeed.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2021/08/23/notre-dame-defends-fighting-irish-leprechaun-mascot-ranked-offensive/8249420002/
Be that as it may, freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences, and if you are a jerk to your guests, it is perhaps not surprising that they wouldn’t invite you to their place.
My broader perspective if you can have a tight leash don’t be surprised if the students chafe at the oversight. Or, you can give students a longer leash, but don’t be surprised if they pull crap that you don’t like. People here seem to want the University to back off from over intruding in students’ lives, but also want students to behave as the posters want them to.
BC
There is a difference, imo, between students individual actions and situations where students publicly represent the University and have “fun” at the expense of another group of people. The “Stanford Hates Fun” sign was the former. Plus it was inwardly directed. The Bands “antics” towards ND, BYU Oregon and Iowa in the 2016 Rose Bowl, to name just a few, are the latter.
And while I understand that the band has some autonomy from and is not officially sanctioned by the University, that is, imo a strawman. Simply put, there are plenty of ways to have “fun”. But doing so as a group by attacking some perceived characteristic of your opponent while representing the University, does not, imo, shed a positive light on the institution.
Finally, I’ll say what I’ve said before relative to such band “antics”: why? Is it their goal to anger and humiliate fans and supporters of the opposition? Should that be the function of a University band. I don’t think so.
You hit the thumb-tack square on the head. This is NOT "a university band" and hasn't been for 50+ seasons. It's the LSJUMB, bless their pointy, adolescent heads. What they need is Art Barnes 2.0 and more, really good, musicians. What WE need is a return to really great football.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - burger - 12-01-2022
(12-01-2022, 12:03 AM)winflop Wrote: IIRC, the band skit that got them in trouble at BYU was when the drum major dressed up as Joseph Smith and married all five of the Dollies, each in a wedding dress.
So, accurate historical reenactment is not allowed in halftime shows?
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - 76lsjumb - 12-01-2022
(12-01-2022, 09:15 AM)burger Wrote:(12-01-2022, 12:03 AM)winflop Wrote: IIRC, the band skit that got them in trouble at BYU was when the drum major dressed up as Joseph Smith and married all five of the Dollies, each in a wedding dress.
So, accurate historical reenactment is not allowed in halftime shows?
You mean like a noose formation next time we play a school from the South?
Yeah. No.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - Treebound - 12-01-2022
(12-01-2022, 08:25 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: Like BC, I also think it's silly for people to lament administration overreach and then lambast the band for some jokes in poor taste.
It's the LSJUMB. They always tell jokes in bad taste, and they have for decades. When I was a student, I loved it, even though all the old fogies were annoyed. I hope they continue to tell jokes in bad taste and annoy the old fogies.
You nailed it - thank you! The crackdown on students has been going on for the last twenty years...slow, but steady as most all campus parties have disappeared and drinking has been pushed behind closed doors or off campus - not good. Yes, college is first and foremost about education, but it's also about being on your own for the first time and pushing some limits and having some FUN.
Most people that attended Stanford as undergrads liked the LSJUMB and their irreverent antics and skits. I loved the white bronco skit for $C and tthe "Oh these Irish, why must they fight?!" as an alum! We knew some alums ("old fogies") and non-Stanford people wouldn't like the schtick and so be it. They are entitled to their opinions. College kids blowing off a little steam, poking some fun and occasionally going a little too far is fine by me, as we know the administration will continue to monitor and limit. If you want traditional, go east, that's not Stanford and perhaps that's why the University has done so well over the last 50+ years.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - cctop - 12-01-2022
The biggest sin of the LSJUMB is how few musicians they have now.
They need to be 3x the size to do a decent field show.
At this size they should stick to basketball.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - M T - 12-01-2022
Maybe the LSJUMB should do an Improv club, but not be part of what Stanford University fields at (at least) football games. They can have all the fun that the law allows in private clubs. Oh yea, they'd have to change their name and probably find another way to get money. Otherwise, those that are harassed by them will see LSJUMB as tacitly allowed by Stanford University.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - PersonalLegend - 12-01-2022
(11-29-2022, 11:39 AM)burger Wrote:(11-29-2022, 10:15 AM)martyup Wrote: That is completely unacceptable at so many levels. Also, not funny in the least. People should be fired over this incident. I wouldn't be surprised if BYU cancels all contests with Stanford.
Bigotry and homophobia are unacceptable, too. The halftime show was the best kind of trolling because you can tell who is on the right and wrong sides of history by their response to it. Anyone who doesn't understand what the band was doing needs to do some reading on the Mormon church's history with regard to LGBT people. My spouse, a therapist, has counseled people who were the victims of discrimination by the church--it's an ugly legacy.
In the future, Stanford should not play any games against schools run by organizations that actively discriminate against large portions of the population. And if that means no more games against Notre Dame, that's fine, too.
Pretty sure Stanford "discriminates against large portions of the population." Have a look at the latest admit rates.
Before you think I'm playing dirty, consider that this fact is why it's so acceptable to make fun of Stanford. Stanford is the bully, too.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - BrevinsBest - 12-01-2022
I actually saw this script, as our department was in charge of approving it. The script read something like, "do you take this woman (stutter) to be your lawfully wedded wife." It was not clear that the band was planning to have multiple wives during the performance.
(12-01-2022, 09:15 AM)burger Wrote:(12-01-2022, 12:03 AM)winflop Wrote: IIRC, the band skit that got them in trouble at BYU was when the drum major dressed up as Joseph Smith and married all five of the Dollies, each in a wedding dress.
So, accurate historical reenactment is not allowed in halftime shows?
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - 76lsjumb - 12-01-2022
(12-01-2022, 11:36 AM)cctop Wrote: The biggest sin of the LSJUMB is few musicians they have now.
They need to be 3x the size to do a decent field show.
At this size they should stick to basketball.
Absolutely, totally, completely, (albeit unfortunately) correct.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - Treebound - 12-01-2022
(12-01-2022, 01:04 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:(12-01-2022, 11:36 AM)cctop Wrote: The biggest sin of the LSJUMB is few musicians they have now.
They need to be 3x the size to do a decent field show.
At this size they should stick to basketball.
Absolutely, totally, completely, (albeit unfortunately) correct.
This is Correct, but please remember that Stanford has only 6400 undergraduates, versus 18,000 for Oregon and SC and 30,000+ for almost all of the others. Because of an issue with another student music group (not LSJUMB), the university has heavily cracked down on alumni participation, which helped bolster their numbers in the past. We are not going to get the number of students needed, but I still want them playing "All Right Now" at our games. It adds to the student experience, and we want students at the games. The low numbers is why the band has taken anyone and everyone they can get to practice. With a smaller population, I'm not surprised that a rebellious scatter band was the student sanctioned approach.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - Goose - 12-01-2022
(12-01-2022, 01:40 PM)Treebound Wrote:I can tell you for certain that back in the late 60's the band was not composed mostly of alumni and was much larger than the one we have now. I can also tell you they were by and large better musicians with a larger repertoire. They were often irreverent and did irritate people at times, but they were also pretty funny, even to people who were irritated. The problem with this band is that they aren't funny, just irritating. They are trying to carry on a tradition that obviously just doesn't resonate with them. That is probably one of the reasons they have trouble attracting members. All acts get old. This one has.(12-01-2022, 01:04 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:(12-01-2022, 11:36 AM)cctop Wrote: The biggest sin of the LSJUMB is few musicians they have now.
They need to be 3x the size to do a decent field show.
At this size they should stick to basketball.
Absolutely, totally, completely, (albeit unfortunately) correct.
This is Correct, but please remember that Stanford has only 6400 undergraduates, versus 18,000 for Oregon and SC and 30,000+ for almost all of the others. Because of an issue with another student music group (not LSJUMB), the university has heavily cracked down on alumni participation, which helped bolster their numbers in the past. We are not going to get the number of students needed, but I still want them playing "All Right Now" at our games. It adds to the student experience, and we want students at the games. The low numbers is why the band has taken anyone and everyone they can get to practice. With a smaller population, I'm not surprised that a rebellious scatter band was the student sanctioned approach.
I can also assure you that the trumpet solo did not require the PA system in order to be heard.
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - 76lsjumb - 12-01-2022
(12-01-2022, 02:54 PM)Goose Wrote:(12-01-2022, 01:40 PM)Treebound Wrote:I can tell you for certain that back in the late 60's the band was not composed mostly of alumni and was much larger than the one we have now. I can also tell you they were by and large better musicians with a larger repertoire. They were often irreverent and did irritate people at times, but they were also pretty funny, even to people who were irritated. The problem with this band is that they aren't funny, just irritating. They are trying to carry on a tradition that obviously just doesn't resonate with them. That is probably one of the reasons they have trouble attracting members. All acts get old. This one has.(12-01-2022, 01:04 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:(12-01-2022, 11:36 AM)cctop Wrote: The biggest sin of the LSJUMB is few musicians they have now.
They need to be 3x the size to do a decent field show.
At this size they should stick to basketball.
Absolutely, totally, completely, (albeit unfortunately) correct.
This is Correct, but please remember that Stanford has only 6400 undergraduates, versus 18,000 for Oregon and SC and 30,000+ for almost all of the others. Because of an issue with another student music group (not LSJUMB), the university has heavily cracked down on alumni participation, which helped bolster their numbers in the past. We are not going to get the number of students needed, but I still want them playing "All Right Now" at our games. It adds to the student experience, and we want students at the games. The low numbers is why the band has taken anyone and everyone they can get to practice. With a smaller population, I'm not surprised that a rebellious scatter band was the student sanctioned approach.
I can also assure you that the trumpet solo did not require the PA system in order to be heard.
Wow. Two absolutely, totally, completely correct posts in very short order.
One additional item: the narration in the old halftime shows - for many years done by the incomparable Hal Mickelson - was just long enough between songs to let you scatter to the next formation before the music began again. Now, and for the past several seasons, the narration seems to go on interminably, with only brief (and often barely audible, at least on the sunny side) snippets of “music.” This is the exact opposite of the way it should be.
As one of the members of the Band alumni board who spent a not inconsiderable amount of time a few years back to get the Band reinstated, it pains me to say this, but I believe that the current Band has pretty much squandered the legacy left it by those who went before. Otherwise put, I respectfully disagree with those who say that “the LSJUMB has always done this…”
RE: LSJUMB Does It Again - BostonCard - 12-01-2022
(12-01-2022, 11:44 AM)PersonalLegend Wrote:(11-29-2022, 11:39 AM)burger Wrote:(11-29-2022, 10:15 AM)martyup Wrote: That is completely unacceptable at so many levels. Also, not funny in the least. People should be fired over this incident. I wouldn't be surprised if BYU cancels all contests with Stanford.
Bigotry and homophobia are unacceptable, too. The halftime show was the best kind of trolling because you can tell who is on the right and wrong sides of history by their response to it. Anyone who doesn't understand what the band was doing needs to do some reading on the Mormon church's history with regard to LGBT people. My spouse, a therapist, has counseled people who were the victims of discrimination by the church--it's an ugly legacy.
In the future, Stanford should not play any games against schools run by organizations that actively discriminate against large portions of the population. And if that means no more games against Notre Dame, that's fine, too.
Pretty sure Stanford "discriminates against large portions of the population." Have a look at the latest admit rates.
Before you think I'm playing dirty, consider that this fact is why it's so acceptable to make fun of Stanford. Stanford is the bully, too.
Hey, I think Stanford ought to be fair game, and us Stanford fans, for all our foibles, should roll with it. Hell, there are a few people on this board that like making fun of us Stanford fans.
BC