Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - Printable Version
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RE: Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - msqueri - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:50 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(02-03-2023, 12:03 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(02-02-2023, 09:14 PM)martyup Wrote:(02-02-2023, 08:56 PM)rudruff Wrote: The NIL is less of a problem than the grad transfer issue in my mind. NIL is money, and the University could find it if they wanted to. Finding an appealing grad program that players could get accepted to and stay is harder. Too many good students on the team can get a portion of grad school paid somewhere else.
Maybe Stanford should start a new graduate program just for athletes. It could be something like sports management. It would be a real academic program with classes to assist athletes in their careers during and after they retire from their sport. I could envision classes in coaching, sports agency, financial management, nutrition, training, etc.
It wouldn't water down the prestige of Stanford's undergraduate program and it could set its own standards for admission. This would allow both men's and women's sports to bring in grad transfers. Maybe the only way you could get into the graduate program is if a Stanford coach made the recommendation.
This might also allow us to retain some of our seniors with remaining eligibility rather than have them grad transfer to another school.
I know what you are trying to say, but this is bass ackwards. We should not, under any circumstances, start a program just for athletes. We shouldn't even start a program because of athletes. We should start a program on its own academic merits, full stop. If it happens to be a good fit for athletes, great.
BC
One of these already exists. It's called the part-time "Masters of Liberal Arts." All of our football grad assistants are doing it, and our grad transfer WBB player from Northwestern enrolled in it. We should be leveraging this every year.
I'm hoping Taylor can attract more football-first or even just more well-rounded players than Shaw's eggheads. I've heard an alarming number of anecdotes about recent or current Stanford players who COULD play a fifth year at Stanford and get a Masters of Liberal Arts or a Masters of Communications or something but want something more substantial like a Masters of Management Science & Engineering and, when they can't get into that program look elsewhere. We need to get to a point where reaching your football pinnacle at Stanford is again the default and players then reverse engineer an academic plan from there, rather than what we've seen in recent years of players trying to put themselves in position as soon as possible to maximize decision space to go elsewhere, as the destination they have in mind is something post-Stanford. A bit more short-term, football-focused, team-oriented thinking won't make the players worse off (maybe some take super senior quarters or get masters degrees that aren't the most they could have stretched themselves academically, while the group as a whole will be more cohesive and likely to succeed at football, which is to say have a fun undergrad experience) and will make the football team better.
RE: Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - BostonCard - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:50 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: One of these already exists. It's called the part-time "Masters of Liberal Arts." All of our football grad assistants are doing it, and our grad transfer WBB player from Northwestern enrolled in it. We should be leveraging this every year.
The MLA was not developed for athletes. It was designed for "busy adults" as a part-time degree program with classes mostly in the evenings. It happens to be a good fit for athletes, but when it was first devised 30 years ago, "we need a degree program just for transfer athletes" was not a thing.
https://mla.stanford.edu
I have no objection to finding a degree program that is a good fit. I have an objection to designing a degree program for athletes.
BC
RE: Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - BostonCard - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 01:11 PM)msqueri Wrote: I'm hoping Taylor can attract more football-first or even just more well-rounded players than Shaw's eggheads. I've heard an alarming number of anecdotes about recent or current Stanford players who COULD play a fifth year at Stanford and get a Masters of Liberal Arts or a Masters of Communications or something but want something more substantial like a Masters of Management Science & Engineering and, when they can't get into that program look elsewhere. We need to get to a point where reaching your football pinnacle at Stanford is again the default and players then reverse engineer an academic plan from there, rather than what we've seen in recent years of players trying to put themselves in position as soon as possible to maximize decision space to go elsewhere, as the destination they have in mind is something post-Stanford. A bit more short-term, football-focused, team-oriented thinking won't make the players worse off (maybe some take super senior quarters or get masters degrees that aren't the most they could have stretched themselves academically, while the group as a whole will be more cohesive and likely to succeed at football, which is to say have a fun undergrad experience) and will make the football team better.
I think you are pining for a bygone era, and I don't just mean vis a vis Stanford. What you are describing is a "Stanford Football uber alles" because a "football first" player is going to think heavily of other opportunities (eg the portal). You can't just have guys who prize football over everything, because come their fifth year (or earlier), they will be looking for a bigger stage at a school more excited about football, playing in front of larger crowds (even if Taylor gets us back to the Orange Bowl heyday, it still won't compare to even a down year in the Big House) with boosters who can offer them more generous NIL deals. And this isn't just a Stanford thing; we have a pretty good idea of what people do without friction to keep them in their existing school. So, while I get the desire to move the pendulum away from the idea of football being one of many priorities for students, going too far in the other direction will dramatically devalue one of the differentiating features of Stanford compared to pretty much any other school. For a football first player, we are indistinguishable from a morass of mediocre P5 programs.
BC
RE: Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - Softball Fan - 02-03-2023
(02-02-2023, 09:14 PM)martyup Wrote:(02-02-2023, 08:56 PM)rudruff Wrote: The NIL is less of a problem than the grad transfer issue in my mind. NIL is money, and the University could find it if they wanted to. Finding an appealing grad program that players could get accepted to and stay is harder. Too many good students on the team can get a portion of grad school paid somewhere else.
Maybe Stanford should start a new graduate program just for athletes. It could be something like sports management. It would be a real academic program with classes to assist athletes in their careers during and after they retire from their sport. I could envision classes in coaching, sports agency, financial management, nutrition, training, etc.
It wouldn't water down the prestige of Stanford's undergraduate program and it could set its own standards for admission. This would allow both men's and women's sports to bring in grad transfers. Maybe the only way you could get into the graduate program is if a Stanford coach made the recommendation.
This might also allow us to retain some of our seniors with remaining eligibility rather than have them grad transfer to another school.
While your idea is well-intentioned and would be helpful for the football program it could be the start of a slippery slope. Why not transition this major into a grad program with little rigor so everyone passes? Why not give everyone an A for attending a few classes and writing a one page paper? Open it up to athletes from every sport?
I'm against anything that has the smell of football factory. Stanford is first and foremost an academic institution. Sports along with all other extra-curricular activities should have to exist with the primary mission of the university.
RE: Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - Beeg_Dawg - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 10:01 AM)StanfordMatt Wrote:(02-03-2023, 05:10 AM)Snorlax94 Wrote: And second, I disagree that the fluctuations in success necessarily reflect whether the university suddenly does or does not “care about winning.” Many many universities care about winning every single year, and yet they have up and down years — it’s part of college football. Notre Dame has had some similar downs (perhaps not as prolonged) and I can assure you, they care about winning every year. There was a deteriorating trend but I think it was reasonable that the university was a bit slow to respond due to Shaw’s previous success (the team narrowly lost a conference championship in 2017), and because the pandemic provided cover for the 2020-2021 seasons.
They were also likely "slow to respond" because they owed Shaw a gazillion dollars. There was no turning the page until Shaw was ready, he could've held the program hostage for many more years if he had wanted to. I never expected him to voluntarily walk away, but to his credit he did and left a lot of money on the table in doing so. I believe that was what allowed the administration to move forward.
Are you sure he left a lot of money on the table?
RE: Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - StanfordMatt - 02-03-2023
No, I'm not positive which is why I hedged a bit in my post. But I just don't see how any other outcome is plausible. As countless headlines show based on pubslished tax returns, Shaw's total comp in 2020 was $8.9 million. Not all of this compensation was annual base salary but I believe I saw this number was at least $6 million. If he signed a new deal in 2020, based on industry standards it was at least for 5 years. If we assume it was fully guaranteed, consistent with industry standards, that's $18 million still on the table for 2023-25. But heck maybe it was only 50% guaranteed. That's still $9 million! Maybe they reached a settlement but I don't see Stanford eating $9 million to give a coach his walking papers. Nebraska, yes. Stanford, no.
There are always going to be questions about Stanford coaching contracts given the university's private status. But even envisioning Shaw's contractual status under the terms that I think are pretty favorable to the University based on what we do know (e.g. only 3 years remaining, only 50% guaranteed), that's still a helluva gesture by Shaw.
RE: Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - needle - 02-03-2023
OTOH, Shaw does not appear to be looking for work that he’s qualified for.
RE: Six More Football Transfers (or commits) Announced Today (so far)! - Brickcity - 02-04-2023
(02-03-2023, 11:10 PM)needle Wrote: OTOH, Shaw does not appear to be looking for work that he’s qualified for.
Assuming...and this is a massive assumption...that he will only get hired for a coaching position for which he's qualified, then he's effectively done with coaching. That's not to say that he couldn't be successful in the right role. The one that comes to me is wide receivers' coach, perhaps at the D2, D3 or high school level. But, the dividends off the tens of millions of dollars he makes monthly are likely much greater than what those salaries would offer.