WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - magnus - 04-07-2023
Any rumors about Tara's plans for next year and beyond? Could this be the prelude to a changing of the guard?
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - cardfan1996 - 04-07-2023
Betts is the #1 recruit, not like anyone else that transferred. Jenna, Dijonai and Maya were all McDonalds All-American (but not #1 or Top 5) and grad transfers. Maya decided to not play during Covid national championship run.
Dijonai and Maya were each great for Baylor and Notre Dame, respectively. But Stanford won a championship because Brink and Haley were in the starting lineup and instrumental in winning a national championship and the likely replacements for the two starters we lost (though maybe Anna emerged because Dijonai left and Anna was a great leader (so was Dijonai) but we got an extra year out of Anna).
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - OutsiderFan - 04-07-2023
Far be it from me to claim expertise in WBB, or even Stanford's team, but...
When I saw Betts playing for a few minutes this year, if you told me she was the #1 recruit in her class, I would have thought you were bullshitting me. She looked positively terrible when I saw her on the floor. This was just a couple minutes and she was touching the ball during the time I saw her, putting up shots and missing badly close to the rim.
Maybe she's great in the making, but is Betts really that big of a loss? I mean is it worse to lose the #1 recruit, or to lose Betts in particular? It seems to me the weight is more on losing #1 than it is a great player. Am I wrong?
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - Treefence - 04-07-2023
She averaged 6.1 points per game on only 9.9 minutes per game, by far the best ratio on the team. She deserved way more playing time, beyond just her talent, she was just good. Combine all that with a round of 32 exit, with all the talent Stanford has, I can understand why she wants to leave. This is a horrible look for the program...
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - Softball Fan - 04-07-2023
I doubt Tara told any players she was retiring. If she did it would be out in public media almost instantly. When she does decide to retire my preference would be to look for someone outside of Stanford at the same time as interviewing any assistant coach on staff who wants to be considered.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - cardfan1996 - 04-07-2023
Muir not going out and getting Tara a high profile replacement like Becky Hammon would be my concern not a 70-year old woman retiring. Any recruit would know that was a possibility for any coach over 60 years old. I am sure opponents have used her age against her for last 5 years plus. Betts transferring was actually quite predictable because of lack of playing time and especially when that not so “anonymous poster” got into it with some of you and told you exactly what they thought of the program after the PAC-12 tourney loss and Betts future transfer plans.
I am worried Muir might slot Kate into the head coaching role instead making the tougher and better decision and hiring a more qualified candidate.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - BillBradley - 04-07-2023
I'm pretty sure that the following things are true:
1) Before Lauren signed with Stanford, they (Lauren and parents) had a talk with Tara about expectations for the season. This is recruiting process 101 stuff. Tara told her what she already knew - that she had an All American ahead of her, along with 3 other posts that she would need to compete against to earn playing time. I highly doubt Tara promised her playing time. Probably the opposite - a big speech on earning it seems more her style.
2) They also talked about NIL opportunities and Tara could only say it was out of her hands. Certainly no promises there.
3) During the season, I highly doubt Lauren was coming out of practice thinking "I just kicked tail again, why doesn't she play me?" In fact, Lauren herself at press conferences talked about how hard it was to compete with Cam, Kiki, Fran, and Ashten.
4) Since Jan 2021 (over 2 years ago) when Lauren verbally committed to Stanford, other programs have gotten their NIL act together. Back then, probably no one offered her any NIL deal. Things have changed a lot in those 2 years. It just came out, for example, that Angel Reese is making ~$400K per year in NIL money at LSU, and that's BEFORE they won the natty and her Instagram followers went through the roof.
5) If you go on Lauren's Instagram account, you'll see a lot of modeling-type pictures (e.g. High fashion and swimwear). And a line at the top that says: Business inquiries: teambetts@excelsm.com
So here's my take. I really don't think this is about playing time or Tara or style of play or mom wanting her to play for a black coach. I mean of course she would have liked to play more and of course Tara is old fashioned. But again, she pretty much knew all that before she arrived on the Farm. In my mind, the reason she's leaving is that Lauren has an opportunity to make coin. She is a distinctive athlete. She can change a program. Someone out there is going to pay her a LOT. Certainly not just $75K. My guess is more like in the Angel Reese category - like half a million. Or more. Then when you multiply that by 3 years, plus the bigger on court numbers, notoriety, increased followers...it's a pretty big opportunity for her.
My guess is she ends up at a school with a really strong NIL collective. Tennessee? Some other SEC school? Ohio St?
And maybe the somber mood was caused by this big shadow over the banquet. The shadow wasn't just because Stanford WBB just lost one of its top players. It's because it just hit home how hard it's going to be to compete in the major sports without embracing NIL.
BTW, this is from a guy who still scratches his head when players walk away from a Stanford degree. Sigh.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - Card10Fan - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 07:53 PM)Softball Fan Wrote: I doubt Tara told any players she was retiring. If she did it would be out in public media almost instantly. When she does decide to retire my preference would be to look for someone outside of Stanford at the same time as interviewing any assistant coach on staff who wants to be considered.
I second this..many have already given the job to Kaye Pate and if I was a betting person (my money would be on her being Tara's successor). However, I support finding the best candidate regardless of that person's loyalty to Coach Vanderveer. How did the Holly Warlick successon plan work at Tennessee for Pat Summit as a recent example. TERRIBLE
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - TheFarm07 - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 07:59 PM)BillBradley Wrote: I'm pretty sure that the following things are true:
1) Before Lauren signed with Stanford, they (Lauren and parents) had a talk with Tara about expectations for the season. This is recruiting process 101 stuff. Tara told her what she already knew - that she had an All American ahead of her, along with 3 other posts that she would need to compete against to earn playing time. I highly doubt Tara promised her playing time. Probably the opposite - a big speech on earning it seems more her style.
2) They also talked about NIL opportunities and Tara could only say it was out of her hands. Certainly no promises there.
3) During the season, I highly doubt Lauren was coming out of practice thinking "I just kicked tail again, why doesn't she play me?" In fact, Lauren herself at press conferences talked about how hard it was to compete with Cam, Kiki, Fran, and Ashten.
4) Since Jan 2021 (over 2 years ago) when Lauren verbally committed to Stanford, other programs have gotten their NIL act together. Back then, probably no one offered her any NIL deal. Things have changed a lot in those 2 years. It just came out, for example, that Angel Reese is making ~$400K per year in NIL money at LSU, and that's BEFORE they won the natty and her Instagram followers went through the roof.
5) If you go on Lauren's Instagram account, you'll see a lot of modeling-type pictures (e.g. High fashion and swimwear). And a line at the top that says: Business inquiries: teambetts@excelsm.com
So here's my take. I really don't think this is about playing time or Tara or style of play or mom wanting her to play for a black coach. I mean of course she would have liked to play more and of course Tara is old fashioned. But again, she pretty much knew all that before she arrived on the Farm. In my mind, the reason she's leaving is that Lauren has an opportunity to make coin. She is a distinctive athlete. She can change a program. Someone out there is going to pay her a LOT. Certainly not just $75K. My guess is more like in the Angel Reese category - like half a million. Or more. Then when you multiply that by 3 years, plus the bigger on court numbers, notoriety, increased followers...it's a pretty big opportunity for her.
My guess is she ends up at a school with a really strong NIL collective. Tennessee? Some other SEC school? Ohio St?
And maybe the somber mood was caused by this of immense proportions shadow over the banquet. The shadow wasn't just because Stanford WBB just lost one of its top players. It's because it just hit home how hard it's going to be to compete in the major sports without embracing NIL.
BTW, this is from a guy who still scratches his head when players walk away from a Stanford degree. Sigh.
Not that I disagree with your points, but why couldn't she get a brobdingnagian NIL deal staying at Stanford? Maybe I missed something, but do we have a prohibition or cap on the amount? I mean Stanford lost early this season, but we are only 2 years removed from a national title and we are not exactly a no-name school either
(04-07-2023, 08:01 PM)Card10Fan Wrote:(04-07-2023, 07:53 PM)Softball Fan Wrote: I doubt Tara told any players she was retiring. If she did it would be out in public media almost instantly. When she does decide to retire my preference would be to look for someone outside of Stanford at the same time as interviewing any assistant coach on staff who wants to be considered.
I second this..many have already given the job to Kaye Pate and if I was a betting person (my money would be on her being Tara's successor). However, I support finding the best candidate regardless of that person's loyalty to Coach Vanderveer. How did the Holly Warlick successon plan work at Tennessee for Pat Summit as a recent example. TERRIBLE
Put me in this camp as well. I think whenever Tara decides to retire, we need to add a new outside perspective to the program. Betts' transfer just underscores there is dissatisfication and perhaps wiping the slate clean can usher in the next era of Stanford wbb.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - cardfan1996 - 04-07-2023
If Betts is banking on =>$400k+, then she has to be the only star or one of two stars on an SEC/Big10 team. It’s not like EVERY player is making 6 figures; it’s usually just one star player. Azzi and Paige are the exception.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - standfan - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 07:53 PM)Treefence Wrote: She averaged 6.1 points per game on only 9.9 minutes per game, by far the best ratio on the team. She deserved way more playing time, beyond just her talent, she was just good. Combine all that with a round of 32 exit, with all the talent Stanford has, I can understand why she wants to leave. This is a horrible look for the program...Betts shot 60% as a freshman (admittedly playing quite a bit late in the games) and averaged per 40 minutes: PTS-24.2; RBDS-14.4; A-2.0; S-0.6; B-3.6, PF-1.4; TO-2.0.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - BillBradley - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 08:09 PM)cardfan1996 Wrote: If Betts is banking on =>$400k+, then she has to be the only star or one of two stars on an SEC/Big10 team. It’s not like EVERY player is making 6 figures; it’s usually just one star player. Azzi and Paige are the exception.The landscape is changing though, especially given the ratings/viewership of the tournament and the growing popularity of the game. Next year has Clark, Bueckers, Brink, and Reese - all highly popular players - coming back and there are tons of young stars in the pipeline. It's going to continue to grow. It's probably a smart investment for universities/NIL collectives and rich boosters to put up some money now to get a game changer like Betts to transfer in. The return on investment for $500K could be a major win down the road. It'd be interesting to know how much in total went in to building that LSU team, from Mulkey on down. That's why I think she's going to end up at a place that understands the money game and knows what they're doing.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - TrumpCard - 04-07-2023
Robin Mamlet’s vision for Stanford is winning out. It just took 20 years longer than she would have liked.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - BillBradley - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 08:04 PM)TheFarm07 Wrote:That would mean Stanford would need to embrace the realities of NIL and college athletics. As far as I know, this isn't happening. The administration isn't standing in the way of a Stanford athlete pursing their own NIL opportunities (e.g. Cam and Haley with modeling deals and such), but are they proactively setting up endorsement deals that can be used in recruiting? Don't think so.(04-07-2023, 07:59 PM)BillBradley Wrote: I'm pretty sure that the following things are true:
1) Before Lauren signed with Stanford, they (Lauren and parents) had a talk with Tara about expectations for the season. This is recruiting process 101 stuff. Tara told her what she already knew - that she had an All American ahead of her, along with 3 other posts that she would need to compete against to earn playing time. I highly doubt Tara promised her playing time. Probably the opposite - a big speech on earning it seems more her style.
2) They also talked about NIL opportunities and Tara could only say it was out of her hands. Certainly no promises there.
3) During the season, I highly doubt Lauren was coming out of practice thinking "I just kicked tail again, why doesn't she play me?" In fact, Lauren herself at press conferences talked about how hard it was to compete with Cam, Kiki, Fran, and Ashten.
4) Since Jan 2021 (over 2 years ago) when Lauren verbally committed to Stanford, other programs have gotten their NIL act together. Back then, probably no one offered her any NIL deal. Things have changed a lot in those 2 years. It just came out, for example, that Angel Reese is making ~$400K per year in NIL money at LSU, and that's BEFORE they won the natty and her Instagram followers went through the roof.
5) If you go on Lauren's Instagram account, you'll see a lot of modeling-type pictures (e.g. High fashion and swimwear). And a line at the top that says: Business inquiries: teambetts@excelsm.com
So here's my take. I really don't think this is about playing time or Tara or style of play or mom wanting her to play for a black coach. I mean of course she would have liked to play more and of course Tara is old fashioned. But again, she pretty much knew all that before she arrived on the Farm. In my mind, the reason she's leaving is that Lauren has an opportunity to make coin. She is a distinctive athlete. She can change a program. Someone out there is going to pay her a LOT. Certainly not just $75K. My guess is more like in the Angel Reese category - like half a million. Or more. Then when you multiply that by 3 years, plus the bigger on court numbers, notoriety, increased followers...it's a pretty big opportunity for her.
My guess is she ends up at a school with a really strong NIL collective. Tennessee? Some other SEC school? Ohio St?
And maybe the somber mood was caused by this of immense proportions shadow over the banquet. The shadow wasn't just because Stanford WBB just lost one of its top players. It's because it just hit home how hard it's going to be to compete in the major sports without embracing NIL.
BTW, this is from a guy who still scratches his head when players walk away from a Stanford degree. Sigh.
Not that I disagree with your points, but why couldn't she get a of immense proportions NIL deal staying at Stanford? Maybe I missed something, but do we have a prohibition or cap on the amount? I mean Stanford lost early this season, but we are only 2 years removed from a national title and we are not exactly a no-name school either
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - Softball Fan - 04-07-2023
I don't think Stanford is doing much in the way of NIL collectives. I have relatives in Pennsylvania. Penn State has all kinds of NIL collectives; a couple for the athletics department and others for various sports. My relatives say they are advertised all over Pennsylvania; on billboards, TV and radio commercials, social media, and so on. Fans and boosters can contribute to these collectives. It's big-time money.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - standfan - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 09:31 PM)Softball Fan Wrote: I don't think Stanford is doing much in the way of NIL collectives. I have relatives in Pennsylvania. Penn State has all kinds of NIL collectives; a couple for the athletics department and others for various sports. My relatives say they are advertised all over Pennsylvania; on billboards, TV and radio commercials, social media, and so on. Fans and boosters can contribute to these collectives. It's big-time money.
The rumors I have heard: There is a collective. The football budget is apparently about $2,000,000 and the BB budget (men’s or m&w’s ??) is about $750,000. Not nothing but but not close to major program competitive.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - cardfan1996 - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 09:04 PM)BillBradley Wrote:(04-07-2023, 08:09 PM)cardfan1996 Wrote: If Betts is banking on =>$400k+, then she has to be the only star or one of two stars on an SEC/Big10 team. It’s not like EVERY player is making 6 figures; it’s usually just one star player. Azzi and Paige are the exception.The landscape is changing though, especially given the ratings/viewership of the tournament and the growing popularity of the game. Next year has Clark, Bueckers, Brink, and Reese - all highly popular players - coming back and there are tons of young stars in the pipeline. It's going to continue to grow. It's probably a smart investment for universities/NIL collectives and rich boosters to put up some money now to get a game changer like Betts to transfer in. The return on investment for $500K could be a major win down the road. It'd be interesting to know how much in total went in to building that LSU team, from Mulkey on down. That's why I think she's going to end up at a place that understands the money game and knows what they're doing.
Oh Mulkey definitely leaped into #3 best WBB all time after Geno and Pat this year. She solidified her place comfortably in the 3 spot but here are some of the reasons I think she has been so successful:
1) Her energy with the fans, media and recruits. She is quite entertaining if you watch her press conferences. She literally sings and dances. Some would call her eccentric with all the clown wardrobe on the sidelines but she understands how to grow a fanbase and interest in WBB.
2) She is adaptable and brings in elite basketball minds to coach along side her (she is not afraid or intimidated by bringing in people who can teach her). Baylor’s defense was always great. Their offense was another story. Kim hired one of the best Xs and Os people in the business in Bob Starkey to join her at LSU. On that championship Texas A&M team that beat us in the Final Four Nneka’s senior year, Vic Schafer was A&M’s “Minister of Defense.” Guess who coached the offense? Bob. Kim often brought him in on conference calls with the media and they do them together. She is inclusive and has a brilliant mind for the game within the game. Don’t let that little country girl act fool you. She is a chess player.
3) She focuses 100% on basketball. She hired someone else (ex-Baylor staff) to deal exclusively with Nil partnerships and her players. Kim doesn’t even understand the rules.
As for WBB viewership, a lot of that was driven by Caitlin Clark and her crossover appeal, not WBB generally. It is on the rise but there has to be continued marketable generational talent that is replacing generational talent. There is no guarantee year to year.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts and Agnes Emma-Nnopu in Transfer Portal - chimera - 04-07-2023
College sports are professional sports now, end of story. I wonder what all the transfers will do to NILs. When all these NIL players start leaving the teams that are paying them (through boosters), how does that all work? Some donors spend big on a player who doesn't play much in year one and decides to transfer. Donors are out a lot of money spent on a player for one year of very little. Will they keep chucking money at the next big thing or eventually wonder if it isn't a bit crazy for boosters everywhere to be showering money all over the place, basically putting themselves in bidding wars for HS kids or college transfers who may or may not live up to expectations? Will they try to make those NIL deals contingent on a player staying at the school for two years, say? Will players stay with abusive coaches because the money is good? Will it be like a contract tied to playing time or other metrics? If so dos that encourage individual rather than team play?
Will fans watch recruits and returning players ping pong all over hunting better NIL deal and situations where their stats look the best so they can command more NIL money and still feel attached to them? Will fans not care if their team turns over yearly? Will they drift away because there is no there there anymore, as in nobody to really root for or watch develop, what with players in and out so often? Will the pressure to cope with NIL "jobs" and school and sports and keeping up the brand on social media cause mental health issues for players? Will they ever find time to sleep? Will fans realize that if they are watching pro athletes wearing college jerseys, they might as well watch the non-college pro leagues where the level of play is so much better and ironically the rosters are often as or more stable instead?
Will everyone just shrug, give up, and call players employees, pay them a salary, and treat them just like other employees? Would we then chat about which player should be fired, which hired, and how much bonus the employee-athletes would get for making a F4?
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts in Transfer Portal - MVCard - 04-08-2023
(04-07-2023, 05:40 PM)M T Wrote: I hope Lauren stands up to her mom. That’s part of that part of your life.
This. Could the simplest explanation be that the program has a Gio Reyna situation and may be better off now? Not a fan of parents taking to social media to complain about playing time… that’s between the player and the coach. This kind of behavior is rampant in club sports and some families don’t handle the transition very well.
RE: WBB: Lauren Betts in Transfer Portal - Stanfanforever - 04-08-2023
This is the way I see it
-Betts was given 0 real opportunities to grow through any mistakes as such a high recruit should have . No #1 recruit has ever played such limited minutes , especially with such good production when actually given a chance .
- If Tara had no real intention of playing her she should have never recruited her
- I’m shocked any of you are surprised she is leaving with the coaches refusal to play Brink serious mins at the 4 which means for the next year and possibly 2 there will be limited chances for her .
- To assume it’s all about playing time and again to not put any blame on the coaches is very short sighted indeed . Who knows how she was treated , how communication was and how many fake promises were made . Imagine how miserable she must be to leave a school like Stanford after one season and to assume it’s only about mins on the court is crazy .
- I didn’t see her mother complain about playing time so not sure where that narrative is coming from but I think if any of you saw your child being bashed online with ridiculous opinions from people who have 0 inside knowledge of what actually happens everyday within the program you’d have a tough time not clapping back too.
-From what I’ve seen from this group the majority of the season you guys have been pretty critical of her anyway so not sure what the outrage is about , you should be happy and of course be ready if she gets the chance to play against one of the now thinnest front lines in the country.
- Better hope her and Agnes are the last two , I predict they are not .
-
(04-08-2023, 01:05 AM)MVCard Wrote:(04-07-2023, 05:40 PM)M T Wrote: I hope Lauren stands up to her mom. That’s part of that part of your life.
This. Could the simplest explanation be that the program has a Gio Reyna situation and may be better off now? Not a fan of parents taking to social media to complain about playing time… that’s between the player and the coach. This kind of behavior is rampant in club sports and some families don’t handle the transition very well.