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RE: WBB: Stanford 74 vs. WSU 65 - TonyLima - 01-05-2024

(01-05-2024, 10:32 PM)Hieronymus Wrote:  
jonnyss dateline='[url=tel:1704518260' Wrote:  1704518260[/url]']
Hieronymus dateline='[url=tel:1704516995' Wrote:  1704516995[/url]']
And that 5 point play is embarrassing for the officials.

does anyone understand that? it wasn't a rebounding foul after the shot. nunu and the screener collided before the 3-point shot with no whistle and no foul signal. i thought it was a no-call or an illegal screen; but if there's a foul call on nunu, doesn't that wave off the shot? and given that there was no whistle, can you even review a play and call a foul later that you didn't call in real time? (except a flagrant or technical).

If somebody off ball gets fouled while the shot is in the air and if it’s bonus time, that theoretically is a valid call. Of course, the shot wasn’t up when the screen contact occurred. It was minimal contact so a ticky ticky ticky tacky call at best. And you never see it actually called by officials who have any clue whatsoever short of the screener just got annihlated. Maybe on the box out where it is much more likely there is heavy contact, but  almost never at the screen.

Edit. I forget if they got free throws or the ball. Same analysis applies. Only difference is bonus or not.

If the foul was before the shot, shouldn’t the basket have been waved off?

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - SkiBum80 - 01-05-2024

81alum great points
I admit to being a prior point guard hand wringer
But no more as Lepolo has elevated her game such that we are now so much harder to defend with her knocking down 3’s
I’ve shifted my hand wringing to Bosgana!
Lol

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 vs. WSU 65 - petersalas - 01-06-2024

it was a terrible call. The refs were horrible all game long. In that particular call I heard the refs say the foul occurred after the shot. I assume it was an over the limit foul, resulting in free throws. All game long it seemed after WSU coaches complained about any and everything, the refs made any and all calls against Stanford. It’s almost as if they were ready to call a foul even if there was no foul. 


(01-05-2024, 10:17 PM)jonnyss Wrote:  
(01-05-2024, 09:56 PM)Hieronymus Wrote:  And that 5 point play is embarrassing for the officials.

does anyone understand that? it wasn't a rebounding foul after the shot. nunu and the screener collided before the 3-point shot with no whistle and no foul signal. i thought it was a no-call or an illegal screen; but if there's a foul call on nunu, doesn't that wave off the shot? and given that there was no whistle, can you even review a play and call a foul later that you didn't call in real time? (except a flagrant or technical).


RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - BillBradley - 01-06-2024

Nice win, beating a pretty solid team that shot 9-20 from 3. Favorite stretch of the game...shortly after Cam got nailed by CLW with a really hard shot to the face, she makes both FT's, then another bucket, then another with Murekatete hanging all over her falling to the ground. Cam looks down at her and screams something (can only imagine). What a competitor and she's proving to be such a great leader, consistently picking up every teammate. Loved it when Cam and Talana were fiving and laughing down the court together. 

Very psyched to see Lepolo taking and hitting those open threes. Makes a major difference. I also want Cam to continue to take EVERY ONE of those open 3's. I think she's a really good shooter and just needs more reps on the perimeter. If she can find a rhythm, it wouldn't surprise me if she hits at a 40%+ 3 pt clip. Just like with her FT's, she  has it in her to be that good. Unlike Bosgana, when Cam misses, they don't miss by much. And it makes such a difference to our offense when she plays on the perimeter or the high post and Kiki can play low. We saw the high low a lot tonight. Down low, Kiki is basically unstoppable 1x1. Surround her with Hannah, Ogden/Harriel, and now Talana hitting, and Cam on the perimeter. Tough to help off that group. Pick your poison. When Kiki is out, Cam goes to work down low, Brooke moves to the perimeter. If that lineup gets confident and can hit 3's outside of Maples, this team could really go far. Simple game - just gotta hit shots :>

Kudos also to both Ogden and Harriel on their play tonight. Great to see.

Go Card!
(01-06-2024, 12:46 AM)petersalas Wrote:  it was a terrible call. The refs were horrible all game long. In that particular call I heard the refs say the foul occurred after the shot. I assume it was an over the limit foul, resulting in free throws. All game long it seemed after WSU coaches complained about any and everything, the refs made any and all calls against Stanford. It’s almost as if they were ready to call a foul even if there was no foul. 


(01-05-2024, 10:17 PM)jonnyss Wrote:  
(01-05-2024, 09:56 PM)Hieronymus Wrote:  And that 5 point play is embarrassing for the officials.

does anyone understand that? it wasn't a rebounding foul after the shot. nunu and the screener collided before the 3-point shot with no whistle and no foul signal. i thought it was a no-call or an illegal screen; but if there's a foul call on nunu, doesn't that wave off the shot? and given that there was no whistle, can you even review a play and call a foul later that you didn't call in real time? (except a flagrant or technical).
Agree, absolutely horrendous call. Should have been 2 FT's and that's it. The 3 pointer should not have counted.

I may be mistaken here, but I think Tara could have challenged that call and they could have used instant replay for review. This article says the following is one of the allowable conditions of appeal: "Determine whether a goal shall count when a foul is committed by or on a teammate of the shooter (“offball” foul)". 

Source:  https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/rules/women/2021-22PRWBB_CoachesAppealHandout.pdf

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - M T - 01-06-2024

Missy looked even thinner in person than what I had seen in televised games.

Missy is a very technical official that goes by how she interprets the rules.  That can be different than we think they should be.

In this case, a very clear charge was committed shortly (but clearly) before the 3-pt shot was released.  But Benny Luna still had his hand down when the shot went up, and then raised it while the ball was in the air, indicating he called a foul.  By the rules, the foul is considered committed when it is called, not when the illegal contact was (first) made.

So, as I understand the rules, the 3-point shot was properly awarded, and the foul was considered to be during the shot.  As it was a defensive 5th foul in the quarter, free throws were awarded.

If Luna had called the foul more quickly, the shot would not have counted.  Had Luna been slower and called the foul after the ball went through the hoop, I'm not sure whether it would have applied (dead ball foul?).   That's why Missy went to the monitor.

Consider these cases:
----
I'm glad we won.  The 9th minute of the 2nd and 4th quarters were too similar.  Fortunately, the 10th minute of the fourth went Stanford's way.

Left   2nd    4th
2:29          S+9
2:13   S+6
1:35   S+4
1:25          S+6
1:25          S+4

There was a lot of hugging between the two teams at the end of the game.  I'm glad to see that.  Probably a bit of realization that the teams may not be playing each other next year.   I'm not sure we'll see that for every opponent.

----
I too loved Brink's interception.  That would make my highlight reel.

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - Card10Fan - 01-06-2024

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/change-coming-stanford-starting-lineup-18587537.php

Tara is clear what she needs from Bosgana to keep her starting spot and earn more minutes.

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - petersalas - 01-06-2024

https://youtu.be/fZnyOau-Wzg?si=_880Vc9CwQj8C9t9
The Post Game Press Conference

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - JohnR34231 - 01-06-2024

(01-06-2024, 07:18 AM)Card10Fan Wrote:  https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/change-coming-stanford-starting-lineup-18587537.php

Tara is clear what she needs from Bosgana to keep her starting spot and earn more minutes.

Tara said Stanford is better when Cameron Brink is on the floor.
I would say she has a keen grasp of the obvious.

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - TonyLima - 01-06-2024

(01-06-2024, 02:24 AM)M T Wrote:  Missy looked even thinner in person than what I had seen in televised games.

Missy is a very technical official that goes by how she interprets the rules.  That can be different than we think they should be.

In this case, a very clear charge was committed shortly (but clearly) before the 3-pt shot was released.  But Benny Luna still had his hand down when the shot went up, and then raised it while the ball was in the air, indicating he called a foul.  By the rules, the foul is considered committed when it is called, not when the illegal contact was (first) made.

So, as I understand the rules, the 3-point shot was properly awarded, and the foul was considered to be during the shot.  As it was a defensive 5th foul in the quarter, free throws were awarded.

If Luna had called the foul more quickly, the shot would not have counted.  Had Luna been slower and called the foul after the ball went through the hoop, I'm not sure whether it would have applied (dead ball foul?).   That's why Missy went to the monitor.

Consider these cases:
  •   Brink went out to contest the shot.  I initially thought the foul was on her.  What if another ref had called a foul on Brink as well?  Would it have been a case of who raised their hand first?  Would there have been 3 (or, if the shot was missed, 5!!) free throws?
  •   In theory, all 3 officials could call different fouls during the shot. Potentially that could be 3+2+2 = 7 free throws.  Or even more as the coach would probably get a technical too!
  •   Had the foul been an illegal screen (ie, an offensive foul), I think the same rule applies.  The shot (after the foul is committed, but before it is called) counts if it goes, and then the penalty applies.  (There may be a special rule about a charge by a shooter.)
  •   Usually officials swallow their whistles after another official calls a foul.  Seems unfair to me.  Also, consider the 3-on-1 situation where Brink was scratched.  Was Brink fouled more than one time on that play (ie, by two or three different players)?

----
I'm glad we won.  The 9th minute of the 2nd and 4th quarters were too similar.  Fortunately, the 10th minute of the fourth went Stanford's way.

Left   2nd    4th
2:29          S+9
2:13   S+6
1:35   S+4
1:25          S+6
1:25          S+4

There was a lot of hugging between the two teams at the end of the game.  I'm glad to see that.  Probably a bit of realization that the teams may not be playing each other next year.   I'm not sure we'll see that for every opponent.

----
I too loved Brink's interception.  That would make my highlight reel.

Pesky rules.

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - 2006alum - 01-06-2024

Having moaned about the officials during the live games, I'll echo some of the positives others have identified, plus a few additional thoughts of my own.

My favorite stretch of the game was the period right after Brink took the hard foul from CLW - both the crowd and our team came alive, and I really think the turning point was Demetre's terrific takeaway for a fast break layup. In the span of two minutes we went from tied to up 9, and the crowd remained pretty loud and engaged the rest of the way. Maples is a terrific venue when the crowd wakes up and comes to life.

I'm a little less sanguine about Brink shooting the three ball than some of you. I agree that the high low with Iriafen is great for us, but it seems like Cam generally drains the three only when she's essentially at the top of the key. It seems like she misses when she's slightly to the right or left of it, which is where a lot of her misses came last night. After the third or fourth miss, it just seemed obvious she should stop, because she's not under the hoop to collect the rebound, so all those misses were gifts to WSU.

I'm fascinated to hear that Demetre had such a brobdingnagian +/-. Especially in the second half of the game, I felt that - she was critical to our blowing open the game in the 3Q. Based on her, Bosgana, and Agara's play the last few games, I'm honestly not seeing how Bosgana keeps her starting spot. Agara has way ability under the basket and Demetre seems to be outplaying Bosgana in every facet of the game. 

As others have said, Lepolo being a consistent threat from outside opens all sorts of avenues for our offense. The coaches just need to keep on her to keep taking those open looks - especially since every team's scouting report seems to key in on smothering Jump. There was one comical moment in our transition offense when three WSU players were all pointing at Jump as she scurried to the corner. I'm so glad we've figured out how to master using the bounce pass to get behind the defender so Jump can collect those easy layups. While it sucks that she's not really getting many open looks from outside, she's still earning those 40 minutes with a more all-around game. That said, does anyone worry that her shooting is down in part because the tread on her soles is getting pretty well worn? I wonder whether less might be more and Tara could rest her more often?

It was interesting to see that Harriel seems to have solidified her role as the backup PG to Lepolo. Clardy didn't enter the game once last night, whereas earlier in the season, it was often Clardy as the backup ball handler. I'm not complaining though - Harriel really has seemed to improve over the past few months, and lord knows we need more three-point threats.

Now a few notes of hesitation:

As 81 noted, I have a lingering concern that we seem to be inclined to blow leads and make games unnecessary close. I realize basketball is a game of runs, but for some reason we seem to get tentative as soon as we have a lead to protect.

Has anyone else noticed that Iriafen's shot is regressing a bit from the start of the season? She missed a few bunnies last night, and I seem to recall a similar pattern last year: she could hardly miss at the start of the season, but as the season wore on, her shooting percentage kept dipping. 

And not to borrow trouble, but if Brink doesn't use her COVID year, we're not only going to be hurting in the post department, but also in the morale department: Brink is so critical to energizing our team and revving the crowd up. I'm honestly having a hard time seeing how even 2 or 3 players will be able to fill her (Nike) shoes next season...

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - BobK - 01-06-2024

My new seat mate saw or heard a Curry interview that got into Stanford WBB and he mentioned Brink maybe next year. Hope so.
However we do have a very good post coming in. Umeh

Tread on her soles. Funny.

As I like to point out the other team wants to win as much as Stanford does

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - TheWildJacko - 01-06-2024

Watching the replay now, one thing that stands out is that we’re much more of a jump-shooting team this season than in most other seasons. Cam, Kiki, Hannah, Brooke and Courtney are all taking and making mid-range step backs and stop and pops. When’s the last time we had so many players who could hit those type of shots on the regular?

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - TheWildJacko - 01-06-2024

Did anyone happen to record the full game? I tried to record it last night but somehow got the end of the Cal game instead, and the replay I recorded skipped the last 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter where we pull ahead.

Hm, never mind, it seems it’s working now.

RE: triangle2 - crackpot - 01-06-2024

(01-05-2024, 10:55 PM)triangle2 Wrote:  What a horrifying ref lineup. I thought things were going to be bad with Missy and Benny, but Robertson was by far the worst of the three tonight.  Vomit quality officiating. See, e.g., Brink’s 2nd ‘foul’ in the second quarter, and the complete mystery foul on Iriafen with a couple of minutes left.

Yup, that third one was the worst! I will give props to Benny, though--he can COUNT (albeit very slowly...).

Speaking of vomiting, #55 was vomiting on the bench? I sure hope whatever she has is either not contagious or what Stanford already went through (although Kiki looked like she didn't feel well last night, and at one point came out and told Katelyn, "I'm not feeling very well.").

Did anyone else catch Cam's mom standing up and taking a couple of steps toward Missy to yell at her? I've never seen much of a reaction from her for bad reffing previously, but here we are.

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - 81alum - 01-06-2024

Highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9etBbrEFzdk

Presser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZnyOau-Wzg

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - TonyLima - 01-06-2024

(01-06-2024, 12:21 PM)TheWildJacko Wrote:  Did anyone happen to record the full game? I tried to record it last night but somehow got the end of the Cal game instead, and the replay I recorded skipped the last 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter where we pull ahead.

Hm, never mind, it seems it’s working now.

Coming soon.  BTW my elaborate recording of the Cal game got a couple of copyright hits.  One was an easy fix.  The second seems to apply to the whole thing.  Working on it will take a while.  Patience.

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - SkiBum80 - 01-06-2024

2006alum dateline='[url=tel:1704566136' Wrote:  1704566136[/url]']

…I'm a little less sanguine about Brink shooting the three ball than some of you…

I’m not sanguine about it at all
Cam jacking up the missed threes was our worst offensive possessions of the game
They seemed often early in our set, the rest of the team seemed to mostly stand around and watch her, I’m not sure we ever got an O Board on any of them
There’s so much more Cam can and should do if she gets the pass outside the arc
She almost always has another big on her that she is quick enough to start a drive on
She can then complete the drive, feed inside to Iriafen et al if open, dish back out beyond arc to wide open Lepolo or other, if she’s dragged the D to sag into the paint
The worst choice of all is throw up a lazy 3 that if is not going in will almost surely be rebounded by other team

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - TheWildJacko - 01-06-2024

(01-06-2024, 06:04 PM)TonyLima Wrote:  
(01-06-2024, 12:21 PM)TheWildJacko Wrote:  Did anyone happen to record the full game? I tried to record it last night but somehow got the end of the Cal game instead, and the replay I recorded skipped the last 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter where we pull ahead.

Hm, never mind, it seems it’s working now.

Coming soon.  BTW my elaborate recording of the Cal game got a couple of copyright hits.  One was an easy fix.  The second seems to apply to the whole thing.  Working on it will take a while.  Patience.

Thanks!

I was able to watch the missing portions of the game by searching Sling for the game and watching from the results rather than the replay that I recorded. Weird that the replay just up and skipped several minutes, but it all worked out in the end.

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - crackpot - 01-06-2024

(01-06-2024, 11:44 AM)BobK Wrote:  My new seat mate saw or heard a Curry interview that got into Stanford WBB and he mentioned Brink maybe next year.    Hope so. 
However we do have a very good post coming in.  Umeh

Tread on her soles.  Funny.

As I like to point out the other team wants to win as much as Stanford does

Probably my favorite team since 96-97 (and that's saying something), I would love to see this group for another year!

Cam stays another year. If the SF WNBA team doesn't get the #1 pick, she can pull a Manning and choose to sit out unless the team holding the #1 pick trades it to SF. Win-win-win.

RE: WBB: Stanford 74 WSU 65 - BillBradley - 01-07-2024

(01-06-2024, 07:52 PM)SkiBum80 Wrote:  
2006alum dateline='[url=tel:1704566136' Wrote:  1704566136[/url]']

…I'm a little less sanguine about Brink shooting the three ball than some of you…

I’m not sanguine about it at all
Cam jacking up the missed threes was our worst offensive possessions of the game
They seemed often early in our set, the rest of the team seemed to mostly stand around and watch her, I’m not sure we ever got an O Board on any of them
There’s so much more Cam can and should do if she gets the pass outside the arc
She almost always has another big on her that she is quick enough to start a drive on
She can then complete the drive, feed inside to Iriafen et al if open, dish back out beyond arc to wide open Lepolo or other, if she’s dragged the D to sag into the paint
The worst choice of all is throw up a lazy 3 that if is not going in will almost surely be rebounded by other team
Agree it's not a good outcome if they don't go in, but I'm betting they will. I'd even go so far as to say we have to have them if we are going to make a natty run. We've already seen how our inside game can be taken away from us. We get too predictable and it's going to happen again. 
Sure, Cam can get 20-25 with her inside game and FT's, but it takes away from what Kiki can do. Cam playing some (not all, just some) on the perimeter is another threat that they have to guard and it opens things up for Kiki. Cam and Kiki together getting 40+ is our ticket. I don't think that happens against top teams with both of them in the lane all game.