Pac-12 Expansion - Printable Version
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RE: Pac-12 Expansion - cctop - 09-17-2024
(09-17-2024, 08:25 AM)James Dean Wrote: Not counting football (and, yes, I know - lots of people think that's all that counts) the ACC is the strongest conference in the country. It won more Olympic medals by far, for example.
That's technically correct but athletes affiliated with Stanford and Cal won over half the total medals that the ACC is counting.
If athletes from Stanford and Cal were their own conference, they would rank in a respectable 3rd place in Olympic medals behind the B1G and SEC.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Mick - 09-17-2024
(09-17-2024, 08:25 AM)James Dean Wrote: Not counting football (and, yes, I know - lots of people think that's all that counts) the ACC is the strongest conference in the country. It won more Olympic medals by far, for example.
Academically it is the best conference (again, I recognize that many view this as irrelevant.)
To be fair, any conference that has Stanford and Cal is likely to lead all other universities in Olympic medal count, given that Stanford and Cal were #1 and #2 in that endeavor in the 2024 Olympics (per Forbes).
I like the fact that the ACC is the best conference academically (though the Ivy League might protest a bit...). Seriously, though...here's the 2024 USNWR ratings of the ACC members. Yes, I know it's flawed, like all rankings, but...commonly accepted. Sue me.
Stanford, #3
Duke, #7
Cal, #15
Notre Dame, #20
North Carolina, #22
Virginia, #24,
Georgia Tech, #33
Boston College, #39
Wake Forest, #47
Virginia Tech, #47
Florida State, #53
NC State, #60
Syracuse, #67
Miami, #67
Pittsburgh, #67
Clemson, #86
Southern Methodist, #89
Louisville, #195
Interesting that the conference has six universities in the Top 25, ten in the top 50, 15 of the 18 in the Top 75, and all but one in the top 100. That's a packed conference, academically speaking. Pretty cool.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - James Dean - 09-17-2024
Quote:That's technically correct but athletes affiliated with Stanford and Cal won over half the total medals that the ACC is counting.
If athletes from Stanford and Cal were their own conference, they would rank in a respectable 3rd place in Olympic medals behind the B1G and SEC.
Not sure how that is relevant. Currently and as far as we can see the ACC is the strongest conference by a long shot.
Your point argues for why we should embrace the ACC.
Quote:Interesting that the conference has six universities in the Top 25, ten in the top 50, 15 of the 18 in the Top 75, and all but one in the top 100. That's a packed conference, academically speaking. Pretty cool.
I wasn't including the Ivy League in my analysis.
There are some who argue that we should give up our athletic ambitions and follow the Ivy League approach. I see this as an entirely subjective view and not something that can be resolved by rational debate.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - BostonCard - 09-17-2024
(09-17-2024, 08:57 AM)cctop Wrote:(09-17-2024, 08:25 AM)James Dean Wrote: Not counting football (and, yes, I know - lots of people think that's all that counts) the ACC is the strongest conference in the country. It won more Olympic medals by far, for example.
That's technically correct but athletes affiliated with Stanford and Cal won over half the total medals that the ACC is counting.
If athletes from Stanford and Cal were their own conference, they would rank in a respectable 3rd place in Olympic medals behind the B1G and SEC.
If you take Stanford and Cal out of the ACC, you probably have to take UCLA and USC out of the Big Ten; I haven't counted, but I would guess Stanford + Cal would be ahead of a former Pac-12-less Big Ten (and maybe the SEC sans Texas and Oklahoma).
BC
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Jamesy - 09-17-2024
I agree with the points about the ACC being a good academic and olympic sports fit. However, the B1G is also solid academically, has several good olympic sports, and would minimize travel by a lot with the western division. If we were to receive the same amount of money from both conferences (which is obviously not the case, I heard that we had a B1G offer if we didn't take ANY money), I would rather be in the B1G than ACC.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - dabigv13 - 09-17-2024
Source that Big 10 would take us for free?
I think some Stanford fans were open to that or interested in that, but I don't think that offer was ever made. Certainly never read about that in any news report. Considering we're making basically no money in ACC I think we would have taken that deal if it was actually offered.
I don't think there is any way Stanford could go to Big 10 in the current landscape. If the best Big 10 teams break away and form some Super League with the best of the SEC, then maybe we'd have a chance with the Northwestern and Illinois left behinds. Probably at that point we'd be better off rebuilding something with other former Pac squads also left behind.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - SkiBum80 - 09-17-2024
(09-17-2024, 09:05 AM)Mick Wrote:When the conference alignment chessboard was flipped up in the air, and amidst the chaos we landed in the ACC (after lots of dedicated back room efforts on our behalf), I felt we fit well in many ways if you overlooked the geographical. In that the ACC has a number of private schools that strive for excellence in both academics and in D1 athletics. Broad athletics not just football. Some with more success than others, considering the sport, us included.(09-17-2024, 08:25 AM)James Dean Wrote: Not counting football (and, yes, I know - lots of people think that's all that counts) the ACC is the strongest conference in the country. It won more Olympic medals by far, for example.
Academically it is the best conference (again, I recognize that many view this as irrelevant.)
To be fair, any conference that has Stanford and Cal is likely to lead all other universities in Olympic medal count, given that Stanford and Cal were #1 and #2 in that endeavor in the 2024 Olympics (per Forbes).
I like the fact that the ACC is the best conference academically (though the Ivy League might protest a bit...). Seriously, though...here's the 2024 USNWR ratings of the ACC members. Yes, I know it's flawed, like all rankings, but...commonly accepted. Sue me.
Stanford, #3
Duke, #7
Cal, #15
Notre Dame, #20
North Carolina, #22
Virginia, #24,
Georgia Tech, #33
Boston College, #39
Wake Forest, #47
Virginia Tech, #47
Florida State, #53
NC State, #60
Syracuse, #67
Miami, #67
Pittsburgh, #67
Clemson, #86
Southern Methodist, #89
Louisville, #195
Interesting that the conference has six universities in the Top 25, ten in the top 50, 15 of the 18 in the Top 75, and all but one in the top 100. That's a packed conference, academically speaking. Pretty cool.
(09-17-2024, 09:08 AM)James Dean Wrote: ...I wasn't including the Ivy League in my analysis.
Nor would I.
(09-17-2024, 09:08 AM)James Dean Wrote: ...There are some who argue that we should give up our athletic ambitions and follow the Ivy League approach.
I'd view this as a total surrender. It would lose the essential uniqueness of Stanford to change course to aspire to become the MIT of the west coast. Yes they still field athletic teams but really how much does anyone fear Tim the Beaver? Although perhaps as a Tree we should...
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Spiny_Norman - 09-17-2024
(09-17-2024, 08:25 AM)James Dean Wrote: Yet the big flaw in this reasoning is the assumption that the BiG would be foolish enough to pay us tens of millions more for our TV rights than they are worth. Not gonna happen.
The B1G doesn't pay its schools anything for TV rights. That money comes from Fox which effectively owns the B1G. Right now, Fox has shown no interest in paying for more teams for either of its conferences, the B1G and the Big 12. Fox is hesitant to invest more in a business model (linear TV) that has been very lucrative, but is being disrupted. No one really has a model yet for generating sustainable sports profits in the streaming world.
So yes I agree with you that we should not expect the B1G to bail out Stanford if/when the ACC collapses. Stanford is in a relatively weak bargaining position and I don't see much that can change that.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - James Dean - 09-17-2024
Quote:I'd view this as a total surrender. It would lose the essential uniqueness of Stanford to change course to aspire to become the MIT of the west coast.
Well stated. We are sui generis. We need to set our course through these chaotic times in our own way. And we appear to be doing so surprisingly well.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Mick - 09-19-2024
Pac-12 has identified Memphis and Tulane as top targets. Secondary targets are UTSA, North Texas, South Florida and Texas State. Also considering UNLV and Air Force, but those appear to be tertiary targets. And apparently, the AAC wants all three service academies in the AAC.
The Pac-12 intends to retain the Pac-12 brand, whether or not they have 12 teams.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10135993-report-pac-12-eyes-unlv-utsa-more-for-expansion-gonzaga-a-possibility-for-cbb?utm_source=br_newsletter&lid=vpluae655r12
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Mick - 09-19-2024
One other item. Interesting that the Pac-12 is considering targeting Gonzaga for basketball. They've been a power for 30 years, they've had a basketball program since they went 9-2 in 1907/08, and they've been the basketball kings of the WCC
They were independent until they formed the Big Sky in 1963 with Montana, Montana State, Idaho, Idaho State, and Weber State as a basketball conference. They remained until they joined the WCC in 1979 and didn't win the conference until 1993/94. They have finished first or second 28 of 31 years since then (mainly 1st, 26 times).
They absolutely own the WCC and its seven, fellow, faith-based institutions (UoP was originally Methodist and severed its financial relationship with the Methodist church in 1969).
Would Gonzaga want to crater both the conference ownage and decades of relationships for the Pac-12? USC certainly did...but would it be a good move for Gonzaga?
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Mick - 09-23-2024
It is believed that Memphis, Tulane, South Florida, and UTSA have turned down the once-and-future Pac-12. They released a joint statement that upheld their conference commitment to each other. AAC departure requires a 27 month notification and a $10 million exit fee. An early departure would cost more; e.g., it cost SMU $25 million for an expedited move to the ACC and $17 million for UConn to depart the AAC to return to the Big East. The next Mountain West school would cost a $12 million penalty and a $17 million exit fee.
Texas State from the Sun Belt Conference would be far less costly. Other options would be UTEP and New Mexico State from Conference USA or Sac State and Tarleton State from the WAC, which have indicated they would be interested in moving up.
Cost to bring on Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State and Colorado State looks to be $110 million. Pac-12 is sitting on $250 mms. of collective media revenue this year and next,.
The Pac-12 continues to pursue Gonzaga for basketball and UNLV and Utah State for football and basketball. The conference's pitch is a $12 mms. to $15 mms. annual media rights distribution to each school.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Giants - 09-23-2024
(09-23-2024, 04:46 PM)Mick Wrote: It is believed that Memphis, Tulane, South Florida, and UTSA have turned down the once-and-future Pac-12. They released a joint statement that upheld their conference commitment to each other. AAC departure requires a 27 month notification and a $10 million exit fee. An early departure would cost more; e.g., it cost SMU $25 million for an expedited move to the ACC and $17 million for UConn to depart the AAC to return to the Big East. The next Mountain West school would cost a $12 million penalty and a $17 million exit fee.
Texas State from the Sun Belt Conference would be far less costly. Other options would be UTEP and New Mexico State from Conference USA or Sac State and Tarleton State from the WAC, which have indicated they would be interested in moving up.
Cost to bring on Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State and Colorado State looks to be $110 million. Pac-12 is sitting on $250 mms. of collective media revenue this year and next,.
The Pac-12 continues to pursue Gonzaga for basketball and UNLV and Utah State for football and basketball. The conference's pitch is a $12 mms. to $15 mms. annual media rights distribution to each school.
$12-$15 million/school for a conference consisting of OSU, WSU, Fresno, San Diego St., CSU, USU, UNLV and Boise? Good luck to them. They will need it….
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Mick - 09-23-2024
(09-23-2024, 05:51 PM)Giants Wrote:(09-23-2024, 04:46 PM)Mick Wrote: It is believed that Memphis, Tulane, South Florida, and UTSA have turned down the once-and-future Pac-12. They released a joint statement that upheld their conference commitment to each other. AAC departure requires a 27 month notification and a $10 million exit fee. An early departure would cost more; e.g., it cost SMU $25 million for an expedited move to the ACC and $17 million for UConn to depart the AAC to return to the Big East. The next Mountain West school would cost a $12 million penalty and a $17 million exit fee.
Texas State from the Sun Belt Conference would be far less costly. Other options would be UTEP and New Mexico State from Conference USA or Sac State and Tarleton State from the WAC, which have indicated they would be interested in moving up.
Cost to bring on Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State and Colorado State looks to be $110 million. Pac-12 is sitting on $250 mms. of collective media revenue this year and next,.
The Pac-12 continues to pursue Gonzaga for basketball and UNLV and Utah State for football and basketball. The conference's pitch is a $12 mms. to $15 mms. annual media rights distribution to each school.
$12-$15 million/school for a conference consisting of OSU, WSU, Fresno, San Diego St., CSU, USU, UNLV and Boise? Good luck to them. They will need it….
Actually...UNLV and SJSU just turned down the Pac-12.
UNLV rejects Pac-12 along with San Jose State as plans fall apart
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Giants - 09-23-2024
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1727140038' Wrote: 1727140038[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1727139108' Wrote: 1727139108[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1727135192' Wrote: 1727135192[/url]']
It is believed that Memphis, Tulane, South Florida, and UTSA have turned down the once-and-future Pac-12. They released a joint statement that upheld their conference commitment to each other. AAC departure requires a 27 month notification and a $10 million exit fee. An early departure would cost more; e.g., it cost SMU $25 million for an expedited move to the ACC and $17 million for UConn to depart the AAC to return to the Big East. The next Mountain West school would cost a $12 million penalty and a $17 million exit fee.
Texas State from the Sun Belt Conference would be far less costly. Other options would be UTEP and New Mexico State from Conference USA or Sac State and Tarleton State from the WAC, which have indicated they would be interested in moving up.
Cost to bring on Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State and Colorado State looks to be $110 million. Pac-12 is sitting on $250 mms. of collective media revenue this year and next,.
The Pac-12 continues to pursue Gonzaga for basketball and UNLV and Utah State for football and basketball. The conference's pitch is a $12 mms. to $15 mms. annual media rights distribution to each school.
$12-$15 million/school for a conference consisting of OSU, WSU, Fresno, San Diego St., CSU, USU, UNLV and Boise? Good luck to them. They will need it….
Actually...UNLV and SJSU just turned down the Pac-12.
UNLV rejects Pac-12 along with San Jose State as plans fall apart
Once USU accepted a bid, UNLV decided to rethink their position. I believe they will change the “no thanks” to “yes please”. We shall see.
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/41406047/unlv-exploring-options-utah-state-joins-pac-12
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Mick - 09-24-2024
(09-23-2024, 10:07 PM)Giants Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1727140038' Wrote: 1727140038[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1727139108' Wrote: 1727139108[/url]']
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1727135192' Wrote: 1727135192[/url]']
It is believed that Memphis, Tulane, South Florida, and UTSA have turned down the once-and-future Pac-12. They released a joint statement that upheld their conference commitment to each other. AAC departure requires a 27 month notification and a $10 million exit fee. An early departure would cost more; e.g., it cost SMU $25 million for an expedited move to the ACC and $17 million for UConn to depart the AAC to return to the Big East. The next Mountain West school would cost a $12 million penalty and a $17 million exit fee.
Texas State from the Sun Belt Conference would be far less costly. Other options would be UTEP and New Mexico State from Conference USA or Sac State and Tarleton State from the WAC, which have indicated they would be interested in moving up.
Cost to bring on Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State and Colorado State looks to be $110 million. Pac-12 is sitting on $250 mms. of collective media revenue this year and next,.
The Pac-12 continues to pursue Gonzaga for basketball and UNLV and Utah State for football and basketball. The conference's pitch is a $12 mms. to $15 mms. annual media rights distribution to each school.
$12-$15 million/school for a conference consisting of OSU, WSU, Fresno, San Diego St., CSU, USU, UNLV and Boise? Good luck to them. They will need it….
Actually...UNLV and SJSU just turned down the Pac-12.
UNLV rejects Pac-12 along with San Jose State as plans fall apart
Once USU accepted a bid, UNLV decided to rethink their position. I believe they will change the “no thanks” to “yes please”. We shall see.
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/41406047/unlv-exploring-options-utah-state-joins-pac-12
UNR is a possibility as well. I think they'd join as a twosome.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Maple Leaf - 09-24-2024
Anybody have insight as to why San Jose St. is not interested in joining the new Pac-12? It would seem like a good fit with Fresno St. and San Diego St. having deciding to join.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - dabigv13 - 09-24-2024
Well, the MWC will take in a bunch of money from exit fees. As the Pac-12 has no media rights deal and so any projected income is entirely speculative, its possible a school might do better staying, not paying an exit fee, but getting a portion from all the leavers. Maybe the new Pac makes less money than expected or the duration needed to recoup the exit fee will be much longer than any media rights deal that could be signed.
Evidently the right move is uncertain if different Cal State schools are reaching different decisions.
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Mick - 09-25-2024
(09-23-2024, 04:46 PM)Mick Wrote: It is believed that Memphis, Tulane, South Florida, and UTSA have turned down the once-and-future Pac-12. They released a joint statement that upheld their conference commitment to each other. AAC departure requires a 27 month notification and a $10 million exit fee. An early departure would cost more; e.g., it cost SMU $25 million for an expedited move to the ACC and $17 million for UConn to depart the AAC to return to the Big East. The next Mountain West school would cost a $12 million penalty and a $17 million exit fee.
Texas State from the Sun Belt Conference would be far less costly. Other options would be UTEP and New Mexico State from Conference USA or Sac State and Tarleton State from the WAC, which have indicated they would be interested in moving up.
Cost to bring on Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State and Colorado State looks to be $110 million. Pac-12 is sitting on $250 mms. of collective media revenue this year and next,.
The Pac-12 continues to pursue Gonzaga for basketball and UNLV and Utah State for football and basketball. The conference's pitch is a $12 mms. to $15 mms. annual media rights distribution to each school.
No longer pursuing Utah State, the Pac-12 has landed Utah State as their seventh member. One more, and they'll be considered a viable football conference according to NCAA rules.
Another Mountain West school joining Pac-12 in 2026
RE: Pac-12 Expansion - Mick - 09-26-2024
(09-25-2024, 07:17 PM)Mick Wrote:(09-23-2024, 04:46 PM)Mick Wrote: It is believed that Memphis, Tulane, South Florida, and UTSA have turned down the once-and-future Pac-12. They released a joint statement that upheld their conference commitment to each other. AAC departure requires a 27 month notification and a $10 million exit fee. An early departure would cost more; e.g., it cost SMU $25 million for an expedited move to the ACC and $17 million for UConn to depart the AAC to return to the Big East. The next Mountain West school would cost a $12 million penalty and a $17 million exit fee.
Texas State from the Sun Belt Conference would be far less costly. Other options would be UTEP and New Mexico State from Conference USA or Sac State and Tarleton State from the WAC, which have indicated they would be interested in moving up.
Cost to bring on Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State and Colorado State looks to be $110 million. Pac-12 is sitting on $250 mms. of collective media revenue this year and next,.
The Pac-12 continues to pursue Gonzaga for basketball and UNLV and Utah State for football and basketball. The conference's pitch is a $12 mms. to $15 mms. annual media rights distribution to each school.
No longer pursuing Utah State, the Pac-12 has landed Utah State as their seventh member. One more, and they'll be considered a viable football conference according to NCAA rules.
Another Mountain West school joining Pac-12 in 2026
Sac State (30-23 winners over Stanford last season) wants into the Pac-12. Hornet Field holds 21,195 and they plan to build a new stadium holding 25,000. They've been in FCS since 1998, and they've made the FCS playoffs four times in the past five years with two first-round victories in the past two years. They beat Oregon State in 2011 and Colorado in 2012.
Sacramento State to build new stadium, eyes Pac-12 bid