MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) (/thread-23829.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) (/thread-23829.html)
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - SamuelMcF - 03-11-2023
(03-11-2023, 08:44 AM)martyup Wrote: Maybe Hasse will be smart enough to hire a wiz-bang assistant coach(s) that can inject some much needed expertise into this program and get it back on a winning track. Or maybe that was a condition upon his not losing his job.
Supposedly the assistants are actually really good, especially with recruiting. They don’t make the in-game decisions. Sound familiar?
(I’m not being sarcastic - this is real feedback.)
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - JJJ - 03-11-2023
Ben Parker writes a pretty balanced piece, I thought. Didn't really know about KZ's AP Calc grade...
Quote:A major reason why Haase is being retained is the incoming recruiting class of 2023 4-star point guard
Kanaan Carlyle
, 2023 4-star small forward
Andrej Stojakovic
, and 2023 small forward
Cameron Grant
(preferred walk-on). Carlyle is one of the top point guards in the 2023 class while Stojakovic is one of the top wings. Grant admittedly isn’t part of the equation of as to whether or not Haase would be retained, but he should be mentioned for completeness.
Carlyle started off as the highest rated commit, but Stojakovic has surpassed him in ranking while also being named a McDonald’s All-American. Rivals has Carlyle rated as the 47th overall best recruit in the 2023 class and 15th among point guards while Stojakovic is rated as the 30th overall best recruit and 8th among small forwards.
If you add Stojakovic and Carlyle to next season’s projected roster, the expectation should be an NCAA Tournament team. If Haase were fired, the risk of losing one or both of them would exist and Stanford obviously did not want to take the risk of losing them due to a coaching change.
On top of the recruiting class, another major reason why Haase is being brought back is the way he has connected with the Stanford community, his players, and his willingness to navigate some of the challenges that come with Stanford. He genuinely loves being at Stanford and wants the program to get taken to greater heights. He’s also surrounded himself with a coaching staff that is fully committed to his shared vision of the program and desire to connect with the Stanford community. Stanford is a place that cares about the holistic package of their coaches and Haase checks off a lot of the boxes that they are looking for.
Haase has also dealt with some rather unusual challenges that have been outside of his control.
Tyrell Terry
leaving for the NBA after just one season,
KZ Okpala
missing the first 12 games of his freshman year due to an AP Calculus grade, and then just having to coach in the most COVID-restrictive county in the nation. Plus, he’s had to deal with an environment where he can’t really build through the transfer portal. He finally got a grad transfer in
Michael Jones
from Davidson for this season, who was the first in program history.
When evaluating Haase’s tenure on The Farm, those things need to be brought up. Most coaches would have gone searching for other jobs after their star recruit couldn’t play due to an AP Calculus grade. What other high major program in the nation can you envision that happening at?
So when you consider all that, it makes sense for Stanford administration to try to give Haase as much benefit of the doubt and support as possible. You certainly want to be real about the challenges that your school presents and not punish people for stuff that happens beyond their control.
https://stanford.rivals.com/news/jerod-haase-returning-to-stanford-for-8th-season
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - old spanish trail - 03-11-2023
(03-11-2023, 08:21 AM)winflop Wrote:(03-09-2023, 10:39 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: We lose Spencer Jones who has been by far the best scorer, but that's it. We add Carlyle and the pro's 6'8" son, who is a Mickey D, and the red shirting 4 star. If Haase said to Muir, I've got some great juniors (Angel, Murrell, McConnell) and sophs (Reynaud, Silva, Ingram), two pretty good grad players (Jones, Keefe) and a couple promising frosh (Agarwal, Moss) so give me one more year and I'll leave if we don't make the tournament, I can see Muir saying ok. I think Muir says it's over only if the players ask Muir to let him go.
It hasn't been about the roster for the last several years. Haase is a great recruiter - maybe our best in the "modern era." It's all about what happens afterwards that has delivered the poor results of the last seven years.
Totally agree, Flop.
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - Nan3cy - 03-11-2023
Anybody read Wilmer this morning? He’s got a list of potential guys for Cal’s opening, and last on the list is: Mark Madsen. (Says if Stanford can bring in a Cal grad to rescue its football program, maybe a Stanford grad should get the nod for Cal in basketball.)
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - wait64more - 03-12-2023
Muir haase to go...
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - SkiBum80 - 03-13-2023
(03-11-2023, 08:21 AM)winflop Wrote:(03-09-2023, 10:39 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: We lose Spencer Jones who has been by far the best scorer, but that's it. We add Carlyle and the pro's 6'8" son, who is a Mickey D, and the red shirting 4 star. If Haase said to Muir, I've got some great juniors (Angel, Murrell, McConnell) and sophs (Reynaud, Silva, Ingram), two pretty good grad players (Jones, Keefe) and a couple promising frosh (Agarwal, Moss) so give me one more year and I'll leave if we don't make the tournament, I can see Muir saying ok. I think Muir says it's over only if the players ask Muir to let him go.
It hasn't been about the roster for the last several years. Haase is a great recruiter - maybe our best in the "modern era." It's all about what happens afterwards that has delivered the poor results of the last seven years.
What he said
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - winflop - 03-13-2023
If I had a dime for every time Muir said he was excited about the incoming talent - in either FB or MBB - the athletic department might not be running a deficit
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - Oskidunker - 03-16-2023
(03-11-2023, 11:11 AM)JJJ Wrote: Ben Parker writes a pretty balanced piece, I thought. Didn't really know about KZ's AP Calc grade...
Quote:A major reason why Haase is being retained is the incoming recruiting class of 2023 4-star point guard
Kanaan Carlyle
, 2023 4-star small forward
Andrej Stojakovic
, and 2023 small forward
Cameron Grant
(preferred walk-on). Carlyle is one of the top point guards in the 2023 class while Stojakovic is one of the top wings. Grant admittedly isn’t part of the equation of as to whether or not Haase would be retained, but he should be mentioned for completeness.
Carlyle started off as the highest rated commit, but Stojakovic has surpassed him in ranking while also being named a McDonald’s All-American. Rivals has Carlyle rated as the 47th overall best recruit in the 2023 class and 15th among point guards while Stojakovic is rated as the 30th overall best recruit and 8th among small forwards.
If you add Stojakovic and Carlyle to next season’s projected roster, the expectation should be an NCAA Tournament team. If Haase were fired, the risk of losing one or both of them would exist and Stanford obviously did not want to take the risk of losing them due to a coaching change.
On top of the recruiting class, another major reason why Haase is being brought back is the way he has connected with the Stanford community, his players, and his willingness to navigate some of the challenges that come with Stanford. He genuinely loves being at Stanford and wants the program to get taken to greater heights. He’s also surrounded himself with a coaching staff that is fully committed to his shared vision of the program and desire to connect with the Stanford community. Stanford is a place that cares about the holistic package of their coaches and Haase checks off a lot of the boxes that they are looking for.
Haase has also dealt with some rather unusual challenges that have been outside of his control.
Tyrell Terry
leaving for the NBA after just one season,
KZ Okpala
missing the first 12 games of his freshman year due to an AP Calculus grade, and then just having to coach in the most COVID-restrictive county in the nation. Plus, he’s had to deal with an environment where he can’t really build through the transfer portal. He finally got a grad transfer in
Michael Jones
from Davidson for this season, who was the first in program history.
When evaluating Haase’s tenure on The Farm, those things need to be brought up. Most coaches would have gone searching for other jobs after their star recruit couldn’t play due to an AP Calculus grade. What other high major program in the nation can you envision that happening at?
So when you consider all that, it makes sense for Stanford administration to try to give Haase as much benefit of the doubt and support as possible. You certainly want to be real about the challenges that your school presents and not punish people for stuff that happens beyond their control.
https://stanford.rivals.com/news/jerod-haase-returning-to-stanford-for-8th-season
Good Article.
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - Farm93 - 03-17-2023
I saw the observation about most coaches going elsewhere with the AP Calculus situation, and instantly I think.
I suspect Haase would have left too, IF he had quality offers at the time. And that brings me to another realization. Will Haase stay when he actually finds a couple of recruits capable of a winning season, despite his game day coaching?
My guess is he has been trying hard to land multiple future NBA draft picks in the same class. That group, presumably capable of winning without a coach, will elevate Haase's appeal to other employers. He will then jump to a more lucrative gig and will minimize losing seasons at Stanford using the very things the article mentions. He had to coach in the most restrictive COVID county. He had to keep recruits focused on AP high school classes rather than prep for his system, etc.
If Haase gets a 20+ win season with a single NCAA tournament win, then IMHO he'll be gone likely recognizing that the players that created the decent season will be jumping to the NBA or the transfer portal.
Meanwhile Muir has accepted another bad year with Haase. Accepting several bad years for the chance of one mediocre year in the future seems like an awful deal.
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - cardcrimson - 03-17-2023
I don't recall the situation from several years back, but how does a college freshman miss a part of the season due to an AP Calculus grade? Isn't AP Calculus, by definition, a high school class?
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - BostonCard - 03-17-2023
Maybe, but what other school would let him go that many seasons without an NCAA tournament appearance without getting fired? He could try to leverage a winning season here into another coaching gig, but a) I don't think that many better coaching opportunities would take a coach with one NCAA appearance in almost a decade and b) if they did, and he replicated his performance at Stanford, he'd be out of a job in three or four years. Better to leverage a "successful" season to hoodwink Muir into giving him a long-term extension.
BC
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - CompSci87 - 03-17-2023
(03-17-2023, 02:44 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: I don't recall the situation from several years back, but how does a college freshman miss a part of the season due to an AP Calculus grade? Isn't AP Calculus, by definition, a high school class?
My guess is that his admission had been conditional on keeping up his high school grades, maybe in particular getting some minimum grade on his AP classes. Then when that grade was too low, instead of denying him admission, the powers that be compromised by requiring him to do some make up work before he could play basketball.
Of course this is just my thought.
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - Maple Leaf - 03-17-2023
(03-17-2023, 03:45 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:(03-17-2023, 02:44 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: I don't recall the situation from several years back, but how does a college freshman miss a part of the season due to an AP Calculus grade? Isn't AP Calculus, by definition, a high school class?
My guess is that his admission had been conditional on keeping up his high school grades, maybe in particular getting some minimum grade on his AP classes. Then when that grade was too low, instead of denying him admission, the powers that be compromised by requiring him to do some make up work before he could play basketball.
Of course this is just my thought.
A couple of years before this situation with the freshman basketball ball player, a highly rated football recruit had a similar issue, though his situation was possible impacted by suffering a significant leg injury during his senior year in high school. He redshirted his freshman year, he did mention that his red shirting was in part due to not only his injury, but learning the offense and taking care of some academic requirements that he did not completely fulfill.
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - martyup - 03-17-2023
#1 Purdue goes down to the 16 seed Fairleigh Dickinson. Wow. Boilermakers are boiling mad.
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - Farm93 - 03-17-2023
(03-17-2023, 06:11 PM)martyup Wrote: #1 Purdue goes down to the 16 seed Fairleigh Dickinson. Wow. Boilermakers are boiling mad.Haase skillfully avoided that embarrassment this season. Thanks coach.
He also avoided losing as a #2 like UofA.
We are truly blessed to have a head coach and an AD focused on avoiding first round losses in the NCAA tournament.
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - SkiBum80 - 03-22-2023
(03-17-2023, 08:50 PM)Farm93 Wrote:(03-17-2023, 06:11 PM)martyup Wrote: #1 Purdue goes down to the 16 seed Fairleigh Dickinson. Wow. Boilermakers are boiling mad.Haase skillfully avoided that embarrassment this season. Thanks coach.
He also avoided losing as a #2 like UofA.
We are truly blessed to have a head coach and an AD focused on avoiding first round losses in the NCAA tournament.
Well said.
I find sarcasm to be one of the very few tonics available to try to deal with a very frustrating situation for which you are helpless to do anything about.
In that regard, let me add a quip, borrowed from an older more experienced sports fan than I, "You can't drink enough to watch these guys play"
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - fullmetal - 03-22-2023
Haase is a great person, good energy, very earnest -- probably what makes him a great recruiter and coach of young men. But those late-season collapses or questionable in-game decisions...that's hitting the W-L record. We ask student-athletes at Stanford to excel both in the classroom and on the court. We should ask our coaches to excel at recruiting and coaching.
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - winflop - 03-23-2023
(03-22-2023, 06:18 PM)fullmetal Wrote: We should ask our coaches to excel at recruiting and coaching.
Not ask. DEMAND. It's literally in the job description
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - Gary86 - 03-23-2023
Pardon me if this question has already been asked in this rather long thread.
If Princeton can be good at men's basketball, why can't Stanford?
Doesn't their sweet-sixteen level success remove all of the excuses from Haase and Muir?
RE: MBB Thread (14-19, 8-14) - BillBradley - 03-23-2023
(03-23-2023, 01:44 PM)Gary86 Wrote: Pardon me if this question has already been asked in this rather long thread.Not really. Stanford MBB is ranked ahead of Princeton MBB in the main ranking systems (Massey, TeamRankings, etc.). Princeton got their bid to the tournament because they won the Ivy League tourney. If Stanford's mens team played in the Ivy League, they certainly could have gotten that bid. As for the success in the tournament, we know Stanford could have also beaten Arizona (because they did already during the season) and it wouldn't have been too much of a stretch to take down Missouri.
If Princeton can be good at men's basketball, why can't Stanford?
Doesn't their sweet-sixteen level success remove all of the excuses from Haase and Muir?