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Learfield Directors Cup - Printable Version

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Re: Learfield Directors Cup - BobK - 05-24-2017

Hey full metal I'll send this to Earl and Bernard.    We need to score in softball

Doesn't the change help us as we can score in more than 10 women's sports?   

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - fullmetal - 05-24-2017

Credit to BigEasyCard for being the first to bring up the scoring change here.  If you show up on a Saturday night during football season, he'll take you to a place with good oyster specials too!

And yes, that was exactly what I was thinking.  No more throwing away good women's team scores just because they were the 11th highest women's score at Stanford.  I feel like this does benefit us, but without good historical analysis, I can't say for certain.  I think our depth means we win by more...

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - Canalejas - 05-24-2017

The real danger comes in missing the post-season in any of the four mandatory sports, does it not?  Wouldn't that mean only getting to count 18 sports if we don't make the Big Dance or 17 if we also fail to make the baseball playoffs?

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - BigEasyCard - 05-24-2017

(05-24-2017, 12:53 PM)Robber Baron 83 link Wrote:The real danger comes in missing the post-season in any of the four mandatory sports, does it not?  Wouldn't that mean only getting to count 18 sports if we don't make the Big Dance or 17 if we also fail to make the baseball playoffs?

Yes, that's a real risk.  Under the new rules, for last year we would have scored in 17 sports ( 9 W, 8M) for a total of 1,341.5 points.  Ohio State had 1,306 under the existing rules (and presumably <= 1,306 under new rules), so we would still have squeaked through.

Geaux Cardinal!

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - Farm93 - 05-24-2017

The reduction applies next year (2017-2018) so this year is safe.

Going forward the change is clearly anti-Stanford, with a minimal negative impact to all other schools.

Most D1 schools are not posting results in 20 sports now so reducing the total down to 19 helps most programs.
The forced inclusion of a core 4 would not impact schools that are unable to post results in 15 sports outside of the core 4.
The core 4 concept forces Stanford to only get 15 tallies outside of the core 4 and strong potential to include a few zeros from time to time.

The elimination of 10/10 gender balance helps Stanford though as most years the 11th and 12th best women's tallies are better than the 10th on the men's side.

As the NACDA has tables for most historic years, it would be possible to see how often Stanford would fail to win.  I am pretty confident Florida wins in 2013 even without running the numbers.  I believe in the past I recall UCLA, Florida and USC have had better first 15 sport results than Stanford, so I can only suspect they will win from time to time now.  Those three programs have very little depth, so their top 5 NACDA results are often a function of exceptional quality rather than quantity.

The NACDA originally had a set of core sports and that was key for UNC.

Ultimately, the NACDA members want to present the thing to another school from time to time.  Also, a number of ADs have compensation tied to NACDA Director's cup performance, so can't help but a few of the voting members saw a way to get compensation bonuses.

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - fullmetal - 05-24-2017

welp.  let's hope #9's succession plan goes smoothly and that the program continues trending upward.  and let's hope haase has the men's basketball team on track.  and let's hope tara v. has a smooth transition plan mapped out.  and let's hope hambly pans out.

dang, they picked four mandatory sports, two of which will change head coaches, one of which just did, and one of which will in the near future...yup, this is going to be interesting for Stanford.

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - Farm93 - 05-24-2017

(05-24-2017, 03:05 PM)fullmetal link Wrote:welp.  let's hope #9's succession plan goes smoothly and that the program continues trending upward.  and let's hope haase has the men's basketball team on track.  and let's hope tara v. has a smooth transition plan mapped out.  and let's hope hambly pans out.

dang, they picked four mandatory sports, two of which will change head coaches, one of which just did, and one of which will in the near future...yup, this is going to be interesting for Stanford.
I thought gender equity prevented them from picking football as a core sport since it lacks an equivalent female version, but the other divisions don't have similar sport pairs.  It might be that football was not selected because Stanford is too good at football.  Crazy.

The core 4 is an odd collection especially since DII, DIII and NAIA have different core sports.
All levels have M & W basketball.  If one goes with the core idea then basketball should be on the list. The other two vary though.

D1 - Baseball, Softball
D2 - Baseball, W Volleyball (That's would be MUCH better for Stanford)
D3 - M Soccer, W Soccer (Stanford has mixed success over time, but would be good right now)
NAIA - M Soccer, W Volleyball (A true Stanford dream)

So coincidentally (I am sure) the second core pairing that is least favorable for Stanford just happen to be the two for D1.  Got it.
The C1C gang tends to think lacrosse is important, if those sports were the 2 then I would know the fix was in.

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - Canalejas - 05-24-2017

(05-24-2017, 03:27 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:[quote author=fullmetal link=topic=16426.msg193957#msg193957 date=1495663538]
welp.  let's hope #9's succession plan goes smoothly and that the program continues trending upward.  and let's hope haase has the men's basketball team on track.  and let's hope tara v. has a smooth transition plan mapped out.  and let's hope hambly pans out.

dang, they picked four mandatory sports, two of which will change head coaches, one of which just did, and one of which will in the near future...yup, this is going to be interesting for Stanford.
I thought gender equity prevented them from picking football as a core sport since it lacks an equivalent female version, but the other divisions don't have similar sport pairs.  It might be that football was not selected because Stanford is too good at football.  Crazy.

The core 4 is an odd collection especially since DII, DIII and NAIA have different core sports.
All levels have M & W basketball.  If one goes with the core idea then basketball should be on the list. The other two vary though.

D1 - Baseball, Softball
D2 - Baseball, W Volleyball (That's would be MUCH better for Stanford)
D3 - M Soccer, W Soccer (Stanford has mixed success over time, but would be good right now)
NAIA - M Soccer, W Volleyball (A true Stanford dream)

So coincidentally (I am sure) the second core pairing that is least favorable for Stanford just happen to be the two for D1.  Got it.
The C1C gang tends to think lacrosse is important, if those sports were the 2 then I would know the fix was in.
[/quote]

The required sports for D1, in addition to basketball, are baseball and women's volleyball.

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - Farm93 - 05-24-2017

Sorry.  Somehow I got softball on the mind after the we need to score in softball comment. 

Whew!  W Volleyball will be much better.  I guess it could have been worse since softball is really the proper gender pair for baseball. 

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - fullmetal - 05-25-2017

Women's rowing is the de facto balancing sport for football.  I would approve.

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - BigEasyCard - 05-25-2017

Today's release has Stanford in first with 1,194.25 points followed by Ohio State with 925.5 points.

Standings: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/May25DIOverall.pdf

Press release: http://www.nacda.com/sports/directorscup/spec-rel/052517aab.html

The next scheduled release is June 8 and will include results which I have already included in my unofficial spreadsheet which now has the Cardinal at 1,400 points.

Geaux Cardinal!

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - BigEasyCard - 05-25-2017

In reconciling my spreadsheet totals with the most recent release, I was missing 5.75 points.  I called Julie Work at NACDA and we discovered that the Winter Final PDF posted online did not reflect adjustments made to scoring for Women's Gymnastics.  Stanford's adjusted score was 52 points rather than the posted 46.25, making the correct Winter total 589.75.

So, the revised unofficial Stanford total YTD is now 1,405.75.

Incidentally, she was aware that we take interest in the Cup at the CardBoard.  Thank you Julie Work for responding so quickly to my inquiry.

Geaux Cardinal!

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - DC 86 - 05-25-2017

(05-25-2017, 09:01 AM)BigEasyCard link Wrote:In reconciling my spreadsheet totals with the most recent release, I was missing 5.75 points.  I called Julie Work at NACDA and we discovered that the Winter Final PDF posted online did not reflect adjustments made to scoring for Women's Gymnastics.  Stanford's adjusted score was 52 points rather than the posted 46.25, making the correct Winter total 589.75.

So, the revised unofficial Stanford total YTD is now 1,405.75.

Incidentally, she was aware that we take interest in the Cup at the CardBoard.  Thank you Julie Work for responding so quickly to my inquiry.

Geaux Cardinal!

BigEasyCard, you are the man!

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - Farm93 - 05-26-2017

Did a quick look at 2007/2008 - 2012/2013 - so 6 seasons.  Over the most recent few years the gap has been big enough that I am pretty confident Stanford would win in the new format after reviewing these 6 years.

The new system counts 19 sports that must include 4 core sports.  That leaves 15 non-core to tally.
In those 6 years, Stanford earned between 1101.25 - 1211 with the best 15 non-core sports. 
In most years the over/under cutoff to make the Stanford's best 15 was right around 60 points.  Only a few years would a women's team count in the new system when it didn't in the old system.  For STANFORD that change is not material.

For Stanford, the 4 core sports were quite variable.  Undoubtedly that was seen as a positive to the NACDA.
Stanford earned between 137 - 327 in those core 4 over the 6 years.  WVB and WBB were consistently in the top 19 anyway, but less true for Men's hoops and baseball.  Baseball's contributions were mixed over the span.  Men's hoops was reliably close to 0.  >:(

Put it all together and Stanford tallies should be ~100-150 less per year in the new system.  Roughly half of that will come from the reduction from 20 teams to 19 teams.  The other half will come from the forced inclusion of a non-scoring core teams. 

Now for the curious part.

Florida would have won twice over that 6 year span.  They would have won in the 2011/2012 season and in the 2012/2013 season.  How are they impacted by the new system?  Would you believe....not much at all.

Believe it or not they would have obtained HIGHER scores in the new system in the two years they would have finished first.  Florida routinely has 8 men's scores and ~11 or 12 women's scores.  They are also reliably scoring in the core 4, and if they don't get a tally in those 4 they do not have other big point totals in reserve.  So the core concept doesn't really hurt their tally at all.

Florida would have won in 2011/2012
Florida: 1350
Stanford: 1329.75

Florida only had 1314 in the existing system.  Also, they had no real points in reserve.  If the new system still had 20 sports, Stanford would win as Stanford's 20 total would be much higher than UF's 20th.

Florida would have won in 2012/2013
Florida: 1241
Stanford: 1238.25

That was the close year so the results would flip on most minor scoring changes, but....again if there were 20 sports Stanford would win.

The move to gender neutrality helps Florida since they rarely had 10 men's sports getting tallies.
The move to 19 sports helps Florida since they rarely had 20 scoring teams.
And the 4 core sports helps Florida a lot since Stanford likely gets stuck with a 0 or two and Florida is historically strong in all 4 sports.  Additionally should Florida have off years in any of the core sports they wouldn't have sports in reserve to add to the tally anyway.

Thanks to UCLA and USC success in beach volleyball I suspect they now have extra women's tallies too.  So that gender neutral change should help them going forward as both rarely had 10 men's sports adding to their tallies.

Way back in the day, the NACDA did not allow teams to have Indoor and Outdoor track totals.  If that was still in place Stanford would win easily because UF is getting 4 big scores out of track & field.  Can only guess that modification to the system was not considered this time.  ;)

My guess is Stanford will not win at some point soon.  It will be a year when baseball and men's hoop miss the post-season AND WVB or WBB get bumped early.  That might translate into ~100 core points with an overall total in the 1200-1300 range.

Florida, USC UCLA likely have point ceilings new 1300 in the new system, so a Cup would happen for one of them if their good year coincides with a Stanford down year in these 4 "core" sports. 

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - 76lsjumb - 05-26-2017

We should announce at the end of this season that we are withdrawing from the Directors' Cup because we think it is only fair to let someone else win after our utter domination for so many years.  At the same time, we should immediately develop the one or two sports that would make us reliable winners, year in and year out, of the Capital One Cup... and then win that on both the Men's and Women's side for several years.    :)

Also, for all of the griping and moaning about Muir's handling of various coaching situations, it seems to me that his biggest failure is failing to effectively thwart the effort by the NACDA folks to so blatantly revamp the Directors' Cup to Stanford's detriment... after all, he isn't a coach, but he IS a member of NACDA [I presume]!  >:(

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - Phogge - 05-26-2017

I don't have a dog in this hunt but why not withdraw without explanation and just retire as perpetual champs as long as they rename the trophy The Stanford Cup.

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - SUBuddha - 05-26-2017

(05-26-2017, 04:05 PM)Phogge link Wrote:I don't have a dog in this hunt but why not withdraw without explanation and just retire as perpetual champs as long as they rename the trophy The Stanford Cup.

Phogge, as far as I am concerned, you just won the internet for the day.

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - BigEasyCard - 05-28-2017

Cardinal Women's Rowing finishes in 6th place at the NCAA Championships, earning 72 Cup points.  Congratulations to the team for peaking at the right time and finishing ahead of their #8 national ranking.

The 72 Rowing points replace the 50 from Women's Soccer increasing Stanford's unofficial total to 1,427.50.

So far the Women have earned 821.25 points in ten sports and the Men have earned 606.5 points in nine sports.  The Men still have scoring opportunities in Golf, OTF, and Baseball.

Geaux Cardinal!

Re: Learfield Directors Cup - BobK - 05-28-2017

Stanford will have only Fisher in the 5 K in the NCAA T&F.    Although he could win

Women will have 7

Injuries and redshirting for great runs next year have bit Into this year

Re: Learfield Directors' Cup - BigEasyCard - 05-28-2017

Cardinal Men's Golf finishes in 20th place at the NCAA Championships.  Despite falling short of expectations given their #2 national ranking, they earned approximately 50 Cup points which increase Stanford's unofficial total to 1,477.75.

So far the Women have earned 821.25 points in ten sports and the Men have earned 656.5 points in ten sports.  The Men still have scoring opportunities in OTF and Baseball.  The lowest counted score on the Men's side is 23 points for ITF so there is still room to increase the total for this season.

Geaux Cardinal!