MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - Printable Version
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RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - Brickcity - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 01:07 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(01-19-2020, 12:36 PM)Brickcity Wrote:(01-19-2020, 11:36 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(01-19-2020, 11:30 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: Life was so much easier a few years ago. Back then, there would have been no need for discussion. Everyone would have agreed: IT'S ALL DAWKINS' FAULT!!
Surprisingly, this time, there's been very little comment about the coaching over the last 15 seconds of regulation [let alone much of the second half]. Two opportunities to set up inbound plays that would have almost certainly iced the game, and neither seems to have been properly handled by the coaches. It is, of course, possible that good plays were called and they just weren't executed, but that's never stopped most people from blaming the coach.
On the last regulation inbounds in particular, it seems to me that the final thing the coaches should have told them was, if you're going to throw it long to someone releasing to our basket, make sure you throw it LONG -- i.e., not simply to half court. If the coaches didn't make that absolutely clear, it's on them.
I think the team this year has shown a great attitude, and I'm [somewhat] optimistic they will be able to respond. But this isn't the first game in which they've shown extended periods of incredibly poor basketball. Indeed, there have been a couple of games where one half has been very good and the other atrocious. And, it's not just the freshmen [in fact, yesterday, the freshmen -- silly fouls on 3-point shooters notwithstanding -- were probably the least responsible].
Yeah, as I said before. If this were a football game it would all be on Shaw.
Ok, I'll bite. I can't speak for others, but there is a reason why I cut Haase more slack than Shaw. Haase simply strikes me as a much more competitive coach than Shaw. Case in point: Haase will seemingly fly anywhere at anytime to get a recruit. His road travels are legend at this point. Shaw? He somehow mustered the will to fly to Texas to visit EJ Smith when it looked like Smith would sign with A&M. On a related note, I'm sure we've all read Shaw's quotes where he talks about the fact he doesn't ask his assistants to work late into the evenings contrary to what is customary in the profession.
Then there's the matter of firing - or not firing - assistants. Haase is only in his fourth year so it doesn't surprise me that he hasn't had much staff "turnover," at least to my knowledge. But, Shaw is entering his tenth season and it appears he's never fired an assistant. This offseason was the most galling example: coming off a 4-8 season, after an obvious decline in the program the past few years, he still doesn't make a move in an effort to improve the team. I'm not exactly sure why he doesn't pull the trigger - my best guess is that he has grown attached to the assistants, people whom he probably considers family at this point.
Now, ask yourself this question: does this sound like the behavior of an ultra-competitive head coach?
Look, I'm not arguing that Haase in infallible. He admitted after the game that he could have done a better job of ensuring the team didn't screw up the two inbounds passes at the end. But, I generally find myself gravitating towards a coach who is more "firecracker" and less "wet noodle."
Well when Haase has taken us to the Big Dance 2-3 times and perhaps the Sweet Sixteen once or twice I would be more inclined to agree with you. He has already had more losing seasons in three years than Shaw has had in nine. Now I'm sure some people will excuse this by saying he wasn't "handed the keys to a Ferrari" the way Shaw was, but that only goes so far.
Until then, I beg to differ.
Let me ask you this hypothetical question: if you were an AD and you needed to hire a new football and basketball coach...and assuming (again hypothetical), you had to speak to at least one of Haase or Shaw, which one would you approach first? I would call Haase first, every day, and twice on Sundays.
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - BostonCard - 01-19-2020
Had to watch this to get the taste out of my mouth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcs6r4LfdAI
BC
Here, now I’m feeling better.
https://youtu.be/_DOQ8ASbn6o
BC
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - BostonCard - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 12:36 PM)Brickcity Wrote:(01-19-2020, 11:36 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(01-19-2020, 11:30 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: Life was so much easier a few years ago. Back then, there would have been no need for discussion. Everyone would have agreed: IT'S ALL DAWKINS' FAULT!!
Surprisingly, this time, there's been very little comment about the coaching over the last 15 seconds of regulation [let alone much of the second half]. Two opportunities to set up inbound plays that would have almost certainly iced the game, and neither seems to have been properly handled by the coaches. It is, of course, possible that good plays were called and they just weren't executed, but that's never stopped most people from blaming the coach.
On the last regulation inbounds in particular, it seems to me that the final thing the coaches should have told them was, if you're going to throw it long to someone releasing to our basket, make sure you throw it LONG -- i.e., not simply to half court. If the coaches didn't make that absolutely clear, it's on them.
I think the team this year has shown a great attitude, and I'm [somewhat] optimistic they will be able to respond. But this isn't the first game in which they've shown extended periods of incredibly poor basketball. Indeed, there have been a couple of games where one half has been very good and the other atrocious. And, it's not just the freshmen [in fact, yesterday, the freshmen -- silly fouls on 3-point shooters notwithstanding -- were probably the least responsible].
Yeah, as I said before. If this were a football game it would all be on Shaw.
Ok, I'll bite. I can't speak for others, but there is a reason why I cut Haase more slack than Shaw. Haase simply strikes me as a much more competitive coach than Shaw. Case in point: Haase will seemingly fly anywhere at anytime to get a recruit. His road travels are legend at this point. Shaw? He somehow mustered the will to fly to Texas to visit EJ Smith when it looked like Smith would sign with A&M. On a related note, I'm sure we've all read Shaw's quotes where he talks about the fact he doesn't ask his assistants to work late into the evenings contrary to what is customary in the profession.
Then there's the matter of firing - or not firing - assistants. Haase is only in his fourth year so it doesn't surprise me that he hasn't had much staff "turnover," at least to my knowledge. But, Shaw is entering his tenth season and it appears he's never fired an assistant. This offseason was the most galling example: coming off a 4-8 season, after an obvious decline in the program the past few years, he still doesn't make a move in an effort to improve the team. I'm not exactly sure why he doesn't pull the trigger - my best guess is that he has grown attached to the assistants, people whom he probably considers family at this point.
Now, ask yourself this question: does this sound like the behavior of an ultra-competitive head coach?
Look, I'm not arguing that Haase in infallible. He admitted after the game that he could have done a better job of ensuring the team didn't screw up the two inbounds passes at the end. But, I generally find myself gravitating towards a coach who is more "firecracker" and less "wet noodle."
Our inside linebackers coach took a new position this year. Maybe it was a move up, but Sam’s sleuthing did notice that he put out a bunch of feelers via twitter before landing the Nevada job. Not a firing per se, but a shakeup of the position coach that coincidentally most needed to be shaken up.
As to recruiting visits, keep in mind that there are seven times as many scholarship players in football as basketball. Landing one major recruit can make a very big difference in basketball; it makes less of a difference in football. Yeah, energy is great, but results matter more, and Shaw’s recruiting classes have (generally speaking) been better relative to the rest of the PAC-12 than Haase’s (hopefully that changes this year). You may like a firecracker better than a wet noodle, but I will take a wet noodle who wins, and Shaw has, until this year, mostly won, over a firecracker that doesn’t, and Haase has mostly not won (again, until this year). Give me two or three years more of futility in football and winning in basketball, and I’ll jump on the bandwagon, but Shaw, with three Rose Bowls, four NY6 bowls, three conference championships, four PAC-12 championships, and eight bowl games in nine years has proven himself in a way that Haase hasn’t yet.
This was a tough loss, but overall this season remains a pleasant surprise and I hope we bounce back and stay on the road to an NCAA bid, which is squarely within sight at this point.
BC
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - JohnR34231 - 01-20-2020
(01-19-2020, 01:31 PM)Brickcity Wrote:(01-19-2020, 01:07 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(01-19-2020, 12:36 PM)Brickcity Wrote:(01-19-2020, 11:36 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(01-19-2020, 11:30 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: Life was so much easier a few years ago. Back then, there would have been no need for discussion. Everyone would have agreed: IT'S ALL DAWKINS' FAULT!!
Surprisingly, this time, there's been very little comment about the coaching over the last 15 seconds of regulation [let alone much of the second half]. Two opportunities to set up inbound plays that would have almost certainly iced the game, and neither seems to have been properly handled by the coaches. It is, of course, possible that good plays were called and they just weren't executed, but that's never stopped most people from blaming the coach.
On the last regulation inbounds in particular, it seems to me that the final thing the coaches should have told them was, if you're going to throw it long to someone releasing to our basket, make sure you throw it LONG -- i.e., not simply to half court. If the coaches didn't make that absolutely clear, it's on them.
I think the team this year has shown a great attitude, and I'm [somewhat] optimistic they will be able to respond. But this isn't the first game in which they've shown extended periods of incredibly poor basketball. Indeed, there have been a couple of games where one half has been very good and the other atrocious. And, it's not just the freshmen [in fact, yesterday, the freshmen -- silly fouls on 3-point shooters notwithstanding -- were probably the least responsible].
Yeah, as I said before. If this were a football game it would all be on Shaw.
Ok, I'll bite. I can't speak for others, but there is a reason why I cut Haase more slack than Shaw. Haase simply strikes me as a much more competitive coach than Shaw. Case in point: Haase will seemingly fly anywhere at anytime to get a recruit. His road travels are legend at this point. Shaw? He somehow mustered the will to fly to Texas to visit EJ Smith when it looked like Smith would sign with A&M. On a related note, I'm sure we've all read Shaw's quotes where he talks about the fact he doesn't ask his assistants to work late into the evenings contrary to what is customary in the profession.
Then there's the matter of firing - or not firing - assistants. Haase is only in his fourth year so it doesn't surprise me that he hasn't had much staff "turnover," at least to my knowledge. But, Shaw is entering his tenth season and it appears he's never fired an assistant. This offseason was the most galling example: coming off a 4-8 season, after an obvious decline in the program the past few years, he still doesn't make a move in an effort to improve the team. I'm not exactly sure why he doesn't pull the trigger - my best guess is that he has grown attached to the assistants, people whom he probably considers family at this point.
Now, ask yourself this question: does this sound like the behavior of an ultra-competitive head coach?
Look, I'm not arguing that Haase in infallible. He admitted after the game that he could have done a better job of ensuring the team didn't screw up the two inbounds passes at the end. But, I generally find myself gravitating towards a coach who is more "firecracker" and less "wet noodle."
Well when Haase has taken us to the Big Dance 2-3 times and perhaps the Sweet Sixteen once or twice I would be more inclined to agree with you. He has already had more losing seasons in three years than Shaw has had in nine. Now I'm sure some people will excuse this by saying he wasn't "handed the keys to a Ferrari" the way Shaw was, but that only goes so far.
Until then, I beg to differ.
Let me ask you this hypothetical question: if you were an AD and you needed to hire a new football and basketball coach...and assuming (again hypothetical), you had to speak to at least one of Haase or Shaw, which one would you approach first? I would call Haase first, every day, and twice on Sundays.
I would rather have a conservative coach who wins than a dynamic coach who doesn't.
So until Haase provides a little more proof that he can. I would call Shaw first.
To quote our old buddy John McKay
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - winflop - 01-20-2020
(01-19-2020, 08:10 AM)burger Wrote:(01-19-2020, 06:39 AM)winflop Wrote: I wasn't able to watch
Then maybe you shouldn't comment on the quality of the officiating?
My point is that I don't care how bad the officiating was. They blew a 20 point halftime lead, and that shouldn't happen under any circumstances.
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - teejers1 - 01-21-2020
(01-20-2020, 07:44 PM)winflop Wrote: My point is that I don't care how bad the officiating was. They blew a 20 point halftime lead, and that shouldn't happen under any circumstances.
I disagree with this. 20 points in a half is not impossible to overcome - hell, Stanford built up a 20 point lead in one half, and SC is a good team.
Also, if a team shoots particularly well in a half - as Stanford did in the 1H - then you can expect that to tail off and the opponent to make a run. And if the opponent shot poorly in 1H and heats up in 2H, then you can easily see a 20 point lead evaporate.
But putting aside all of that: up 5, with the ball, and 17 seconds left. You have to win that game - or at least have your players utterly gag at the FT line down the stretch. Stanford didn't even do that . . . which was a particularly tough pill to swallow.
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - Phogge - 01-21-2020
A wake up. Really good teams fight back after a crushing loss. Stanford FB in 1999, British after Dunkirk. Hope this team has moxie.
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - BostonCard - 01-21-2020
(01-21-2020, 11:36 AM)teejers1 Wrote: But putting aside all of that: up 5, with the ball, and 17 seconds left. You have to win that game - or at least have your players utterly gag at the FT line down the stretch. Stanford didn't even do that . . . which was a particularly tough pill to swallow.
Yeah, I especially agree with this. With a two possession lead and the ball and less than 30 seconds on the shot, to fail to inbound the ball... twice... really hurt. It would have been one thing if we choked on the free throws (unfortunately Art Lee is out of eligibility); that would have been bad, but sometimes happens. But we couldn't even inbound properly.
Per ESPN, our halftime win probability was 97% after Terry made the three pointer to beat the buzzer. Our win probability with 16 seconds left when USC missed its three pointer was 97.5%. Sometimes events that happen at a 2.5% probability... happen.
BC
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - SamuelMcF - 01-21-2020
If this were any other Stanford MBB team over the past 8-10 years, we lose that game by double digits in regulation and never build up a lead in the first place.
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - Papa John - 01-21-2020
I'm with SamuelMcF on this. Stanford is still on the cusp of an NCAA tournament bid. Just today, ESPN's bracketology projected us as a #8 seed versus #9 Florida, with the winner presumably taking on #1 Baylor (who lost to UW early this season).
As this board's denizens know, Stanford football was up 21-3 at the end of the first quarter versus Oregon in 2010, only to be outscored 49-10 (!) the rest of the way. Stanford finished the season 12-1 with a resounding Orange Bowl victory and a #4 ranking in both AP and coaches polls. I'm sure that Jim Harbaugh's leadership had a lot to do with the way the team bounced back after the Autzen debacle. And I think that Jerod Haase can do the same with this year's men's basketball team.
Building on what Phogge wrote: it's time for the players and coaches to learn the lessons from the Galen implosion and turn the corner on what can still be a special season. I can't wait to see the team beat Cal by double digits this Sunday.
RE: MBB: Trojan War (not my title, gostanford’s) - JJJ - 01-24-2020
JFYI this podcast was referenced in both LA game broadcasts. Haase talking to Yam and MacLean before the weekend. I enjoyed it.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/10637901/ip12mbk-2020-haase