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The coming decade-long depression - Printable Version

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RE: The coming decade-long depression - 76lsjumb - 06-06-2020

(06-06-2020, 05:10 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Friends don't let friends trust anything the current White House says about anything:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1269137767578996737[/tweet]

However, friends apparently do let friends continue to trust tweets that re-tweet tweets that have been deleted as potentially misleading themselves...


RE: The coming decade-long depression - BostonCard - 06-06-2020

I am old enough to remember when Trump called into question the employment numbers under Obama. I thought that was very dangerous, and, absent evidence to the contrary, I think it is dangerous to call into question the BLS’ numbers now, just because the administration is controlled by Trump.

BC


RE: The coming decade-long depression - dabigv13 - 06-06-2020

Well one POTUS objectively lies multiple times daily and completely stonewalls congressional oversight, and the other didn't. So, reason at least to be wary.


RE: The coming decade-long depression - BostonCard - 06-06-2020

The misclassification error has nothing to do with Trump and would have applied to April as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/06/05/may-2020-jobs-report-misclassification-error/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Note also Jason Forman’s comment on the likelihood that the numbers were messed with for political reasons.

BC


RE: The coming decade-long depression - 82lsju - 06-09-2020

Quote:The United States economy officially entered a recession in February 2020
...
“The committee recognizes that the pandemic and the public health response have resulted in a downturn with different characteristics and dynamics than prior recessions,” the group said. “Nonetheless, it concluded that the unprecedented magnitude of the decline in employment and production, and its broad reach across the entire economy, warrants the designation of this episode as a recession, even if it turns out to be briefer than earlier contractions.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/business/economy/us-economy-recession-2020.html

Quote:The Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research maintains a chronology of the peaks and troughs of U.S. business cycles. The committee has determined that a peak in monthly economic activity occurred in the U.S. economy in February 2020. The peak marks the end of the expansion that began in June 2009 and the beginning of a recession. The expansion lasted 128 months, the longest in the history of U.S. business cycles dating back to 1854. The previous record was held by the business expansion that lasted for 120 months from March 1991 to March 2001.


The committee also determined that a peak in quarterly economic activity occurred in 2019Q4. Note that the monthly peak (February 2020) occurred in a different quarter (2020Q1) than the quarterly peak. The committee determined these peak dates in accord with its long-standing policy of identifying the months and quarters of peak activity separately, without requiring that the monthly peak lie in the same quarter as the quarterly peak. Further comments on the difference between the quarterly and monthly dates are provided below.


A recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, normally visible in production, employment, and other indicators. A recession begins when the economy reaches a peak of economic activity and ends when the economy reaches its trough. Between trough and peak, the economy is in an expansion.

Because a recession is a broad contraction of the economy, not confined to one sector, the committee emphasizes economy-wide indicators of economic activity. The committee believes that domestic production and employment are the primary conceptual measures of economic activity.


https://www.nber.org/cycles/june2020.html


RE: The coming decade-long depression - 2006alum - 06-10-2020

Mick's concerns about deflation seem to be on point -- Key gauge of inflation falls three straight months for the first time in history:

Quote:A closely watched gauge of U.S. price changes fell in three consecutive months for the first time in history, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Wednesday, raising concerns about a potential deflationary spiral that could hinder the recovery from the pandemic recession.

The Consumer Price Index minus food and energy (core CPI) dropped 0.1 percent in May after declines of 0.4 percent and 0.1 percent in April and March, respectively, according to BLS data released Wednesday. BLS has calculated core CPI since 1957.

Core CPI is a widely monitored measure of price changes that excludes fluctuations in food and energy costs, which are typically more volatile. The historic three-month decline in core CPI has left some economists worried that the coronavirus-driven economic downturn is sapping the steady consumer demand needed to help the economy rebound.

“The May consumer price data continue to underscore that the fallout from the coronavirus is having a large disinflationary effect on prices due to the large demand shock, plunge in oil prices, and still strong dollar,” wrote Oxford Economics economists Gregory Daco and Kathy Bostjancic in a Wednesday research note.



RE: The coming decade-long depression - OutsiderFan - 06-11-2020

I'm ready for the entire system to implode. On a day I read the Treasury Secretary says he won't tell us where our money was spent on bailing out businesses, and knowing how the economy and equity values have been propped up by debt, let it all burn. The debt bubble has to burst at some point. The longer we wait the worse it will be when it does. Let's just pull the pin and see what happens.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/coronavirus-banks-collapse/612247/


RE: The coming decade-long depression - OutsiderFan - 06-15-2020

I'm inclined to agree with this take:
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3088421/why-us-hopes-quick-economic-recovery-coronavirus-are-pure-fantasy?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=share_widget&utm_campaign=3088421


RE: The coming decade-long depression - Mick - 06-15-2020

And let's not forget that it hit women, minorities and immigrants the hardest, according to this WSJ editorial reviewing data from the National Bureau of Economic Research.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/lockdowns-hit-minority-businesses-11592167529?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1

From February. 2020 through April, 2020, total businesses declined from 15 mm to 11.7 mm.  In the entire Great Recession, businesses only declined by 5%, about 730,000.  This is already four times worse.  Other figures:

* Black owned businesses declined by 41%, decline of 441k 
* Latino owned businesses declined by 32%, decline of 658k
* Immigrant owned businsses declined by 36%, decline of 1.1 mm
* Asian owned businesses declined by 26%
* Women owned businesses declined by 25%, decline of 1.3 mm
* Caucasian owned businesses declined by 17%.


RE: The coming decade-long depression - BostonCard - 06-16-2020

Retail sales were up 17.7% in May.  It looks like at least some of the recovery will be V-shaped, though I suspect the upswing won't get us to a status quo ante.

BC


RE: The coming decade-long depression - 82lsju - 06-16-2020

(06-16-2020, 10:32 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  Retail sales were up 17.7% in May.  It looks like at least some of the recovery will be V-shaped, though I suspect the upswing won't get us to a status quo ante.

BC

here's the report

https://www.census.gov/retail/marts/www/marts_current.pdf

and results vs expectations and April

Quote:
  • [b]Headline retail sales:[/b] +17.7% vs. +8.4% expected, -14.7% in April

  • [b]Retail sales, excluding auto and gas:[/b] +12.4% vs. +5.1%, -14.4% in April

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coroanvirus-covid-may-2020-retail-sales-171911895.html


RE: The coming decade-long depression - Mick - 06-18-2020

Americans Skip Millions of Loan Payments as Coronavirus Takes Economic Toll

https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-skip-millions-of-loan-payments-as-coronavirus-takes-economic-toll-11592472601

Initial jobless claims at 1.5 million, above the 1.3 million predicted by economists.  Last week's 1.566 million was revised upward by 24,000:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/weekly-jobless-claims.html